Trouble with a smoke unit

1. Generally, I'll get smoke from the bottom or sides if I overfill the reservoir. I now use a syringe to inject the fluid directly without getting any on the outside of the smoke unit.

Bic, if I recall, aren’t you making your own smoke fluid?.....seems I remember something along those lines from a previous thread where you were having smoke unit troubles.......Pat

I had this problem with my PE after I changed out the smoke unit piston. The problem was there is too much clearance between the piston and cylinder wall. I had to reorder the correct piston in order to stop the smoke from coming out the bottom of the engine. Although...The smoke made it look like there was steam was coming from the steam chests.

Bic, the reason I ask about your homemade smoke fluid is if it turns gummy once it’s heated, and you overfill your smoke unit, if your smoke piston looks like this one, the two little balls are not just there for weight. They act as a check valve. On the downward stroke, the balls open up and prevent vacuum from drawing smoke down out of the smoke unit. If your fluid is to viscous, and the top of the piston is all gummy or very oily the little ball guys can’t do their job anymore......so you’ll litterally suck smoke down out of the chamber. The piston really isn’t a tight fit anyways, so as it pulls the smoke down into the bore, it just escapes out the sides of the walls....if your still making your own fluid, I’d try the lionel product if it bothers you, otherwise, it really isn’t going to hurt a thing.........Pat

harmonyards posted:

Bic, the reason I ask about your homemade smoke fluid is if it turns gummy once it’s heated, and you overfill your smoke unit, if your smoke piston looks like this one, the two little balls are not just there for weight. They act as a check valve. On the downward stroke, the balls open up and prevent vacuum from drawing smoke down out of the smoke unit. If your fluid is to viscous, and the top of the piston is all gummy or very oily the little ball guys can’t do their job anymore......so you’ll litterally suck smoke down out of the chamber. The piston really isn’t a tight fit anyways, so as it pulls the smoke down into the bore, it just escapes out the sides of the walls....if your still making your own fluid, I’d try the lionel product if it bothers you, otherwise, it really isn’t going to hurt a thing.........Pat

Hey pat thank you so much for explaining this to me. My smoke fluid is probably too viscous honestly. It’s the same petrolatum mix but I purposely use a tiny bit of vegetable oil in it to make it a little thicker. I read somewhere that if you make fluid and desire a strong continuous stream to try mineral oil. However before I do any of that I’ll try lionel fluid just to dabble and get a good mixture. Do you have any suggestions for cleaning that out? As I said I’ve never taken it apart before.

Bicboy95 posted:

harmonyards posted:

Bic, the reason I ask about your homemade smoke fluid is if it turns gummy once it’s heated, and you overfill your smoke unit, if your smoke piston looks like this one, the two little balls are not just there for weight. They act as a check valve. On the downward stroke, the balls open up and prevent vacuum from drawing smoke down out of the smoke unit. If your fluid is to viscous, and the top of the piston is all gummy or very oily the little ball guys can’t do their job anymore......so you’ll litterally suck smoke down out of the chamber. The piston really isn’t a tight fit anyways, so as it pulls the smoke down into the bore, it just escapes out the sides of the walls....if your still making your own fluid, I’d try the lionel product if it bothers you, otherwise, it really isn’t going to hurt a thing.........Pat

Hey pat thank you so much for explaining this to me. My smoke fluid is probably too viscous honestly. It’s the same petrolatum mix but I purposely use a tiny bit of vegetable oil in it to make it a little thicker. I read somewhere that if you make fluid and desire a strong continuous stream to try mineral oil. However before I do any of that I’ll try lionel fluid just to dabble and get a good mixture. Do you have any suggestions for cleaning that out? As I said I’ve never taken it apart before.

Try just cleaning the piston itself for starters, you’ll have to take the locomotive apart, but you can slide the piston out of the smoke unit by gently prying down on the lever. There will be a spring on top of the piston, so watch for it, but it’s pretty much self explanatory.  Clean the piston with hot soapy water and a old toothbrush. Dry immediately. While you have the piston out, use a Q-tip and wipe out the bore where the piston lives. ....I’d try that first....I like simple fixes.........Pat

Update my piston is similar but not the same. Here’s a picture. I’ve cleaned it and the excess oil that was on it is not now.

Bicboy95 posted:

Update my piston is similar but not the same. Here’s a picture. I’ve cleaned it and the excess oil that was on it is not now.

Was it really gooped up?...if it was I’d put it back together and see what it does....it did smoke, just out the bottom?....while you have the piston out, blow through the smoke stack and make sure it’s clear.......Pat

My original Series I PE had the same issue. I tried numerous suggestions to remedy the issue, non worked.

I bought a Series II PE Lion Chief engine, fan driven smoke?, no problems.

harmonyards posted:

Bicboy95 posted:

Update my piston is similar but not the same. Here’s a picture. I’ve cleaned it and the excess oil that was on it is not now.

Was it really gooped up?...if it was I’d put it back together and see what it does....it did smoke, just out the bottom?....while you have the piston out, blow through the smoke stack and make sure it’s clear.......Pat

I did everything you’ve suggested and alas the issue has turned electrical....😞 when it starts to smoke out the bottom now the engine just stops and I get a ground out blink from my conventional transformer... 

Jeff T posted:

My original Series I PE had the same issue. I tried numerous suggestions to remedy the issue, non worked.

I bought a Series II PE Lion Chief engine, fan driven smoke?, no problems.

Was there a lot of modification to put that in? Or it was decently easy to swap?

Bicboy95 posted:

harmonyards posted:

Bicboy95 posted:

Update my piston is similar but not the same. Here’s a picture. I’ve cleaned it and the excess oil that was on it is not now.

Was it really gooped up?...if it was I’d put it back together and see what it does....it did smoke, just out the bottom?....while you have the piston out, blow through the smoke stack and make sure it’s clear.......Pat

I did everything you’ve suggested and alas the issue has turned electrical....😞 when it starts to smoke out the bottom now the engine just stops and I get a ground out blink from my conventional transformer... 

That’s strange.....the only thing I can think of off the top of my head, is the smoke unit hot wire is touching the body or the chassis when the unit heats up....perhaps the special sauce has cooked that unit to the point it’s warped out of shape, and your just getting terrible leaks out of the unit body...something has to be grounding out hard for you to be tripping the transformer......lemme see if I have one of those starter set smoke units in my stuff, if I do you can have it...as long as you promise no custom cocktails (ha ha ha) at least till we figure out what in the world you got going on........we’ll help ya get straight!........Pat

Its not cooked yet. I was looking at the wicking on the inside and it’s still white.. the other one I had did get warped outta shape so you may still be right. My concotion may be making the element heat up more than usual either due to heat being sustained or maybe it’s just now cooling the unit like Lionel’s product does.. I’m not sure but I gotta figure out where the electrical stuff is going wrong. I’m gonna sit down tomorrow and have a good long look at where all the wire are and if anything is exposed or touching the chassis that shouldn’t be. I really appreciate all the help and your very kind for your offer. I really love the older conventional models but unfortunately sometimes the most simple designs can be the biggest pain. I’ve been looking to convert to a fan driven smoke unit because I’ve had continuous issues with this specific model of smoke unit. Hopefully I can figure it out and won’t have this issue in the future. 

Does your smoke unit look like this. Found this in Lionel's parts search under 8632.         One problem I have encountered with some of these engines is there is not a switch to turn the smoke unit off. Not sure if this model engine does or not. There are 2 switches shown in the parts list for this engine so one may be for the smoke unit. Does yours have one? These smoke units should not be left on when empty. Unless you have a chemistry degree I would not advise trying to use any kind of home made smoke fluid unless your homeowners insurance is paid up. 

Forest posted:

Does your smoke unit look like this. Found this in Lionel's parts search under 8632.         One problem I have encountered with some of these engines is there is not a switch to turn the smoke unit off. Not sure if this model engine does or not. There are 2 switches shown in the parts list for this engine so one may be for the smoke unit. Does yours have one? These smoke units should not be left on when empty. Unless you have a chemistry degree I would not advise trying to use any kind of home made smoke fluid unless your homeowners insurance is paid up. 

That’s almost the exact one minus the orange headlamp light attatched to it. They do not have an on/off switch no you are correct, and I have also read they can be devious when overheating occurs especially due to the plastic housing the resistor melting and catching fire😂😂

I just looked into the possibilities of adding a switch and yes it’s possible, however it’s a modification and it wasn’t ever implemented by Lionel. You can purchase a basic switch and wire the hot and ground straight through a switch board and it will be able to turn on and off. Issue is I don’t run the thing enough to ever run it dry and everytime I have run it the typical six drops of fluid is added (until yesterday my personal mixture) even with Lionel’s product however it’s still smoking and shutting off. I disconnected my solder and resoldered the connections, cleaned off the resistor with a light degreaser, cleaned the piston... the list goes on. I can’t seem to figure out if the darn thing is really the issue or if my E-unit’s resistance is off. The smoke unit is set for 16ohms and a 16v intake. The E-unit is supposed to push 18 volts straight to the unit however because the lamp is attatched and is supposed to draw a few volts as well. Either way this is more complicated than I think I’ve been making it seem. I’m gonna start experimenting with the other electronics in the engine and see where that goes. Strange part is run without the smoke unit altogether and it’s fine...

Nothing strange about it working without the smoke unit. Seems as though you cooked this one with you homemade concoction of smoke fluid also. These units are fragile with the proper fluid. You say you have cooked 2 of these units prior to this. What have you saved. What is the cost of one bottle of smoke fluid as opposed to burning out 3 smoke units. How did you clean this unit? I thought that they were sealed and not serviceable. I just looked at one from my parts supply. You would have to cut it apart to get to the smoke resistor and batting then glue it back together. How are you running this engine at 16 or 18 volts? At that voltage the engine would become a rocket ship and fly into orbit if it is working right. If it is taking that much voltage to run there must be a problem with the motor or something is severely binding. I don't think the e-unit would last very long if you had that much resistance from the motor to need 16 - 18 volts. 

Forest posted:

Nothing strange about it working without the smoke unit. Seems as though you cooked this one with you homemade concoction of smoke fluid also. These units are fragile with the proper fluid. You say you have cooked 2 of these units prior to this. What have you saved. What is the cost of one bottle of smoke fluid as opposed to burning out 3 smoke units. How did you clean this unit? I thought that they were sealed and not serviceable. I just looked at one from my parts supply. You would have to cut it apart to get to the smoke resistor and batting then glue it back together. How are you running this engine at 16 or 18 volts? At that voltage the engine would become a rocket ship and fly into orbit if it is working right. If it is taking that much voltage to run there must be a problem with the motor or something is severely binding. I don't think the e-unit would last very long if you had that much resistance from the motor to need 16 - 18 volts. 

The first 2 I used basic non scented Lionel smoke fluid which came with the set. Like I said good chance my stuff didn’t do anything to help but i didn’t know the unit being burnt out would cause the whole engine to stop and cause a short signal on the transformer. Thing is I’ve used my stuff in other engines even an old Marx that I have and no issues. Smokes fine no gumming up and no burnt out units. I would believe it if this particular model was a little finicky compared to others but I have a strong feeling it’s not just the fluid I used and as for the cleaning question it wasn’t a crazy in depth clean like you said you can’t open these suckers up. I put a little degreaser on a cotton swab cleaned the piston and down the flue and I cleaned the hole where the piston pulls out of. I also shined a light down the flue to Che k the cotton out. Obviously not a great view of everything but what I could see was still white with a little Carmel coloring mixed in which is normal from what I understand. No burnt wicking from what was to be seen. It’s running off of the transformer it came with factory. Im not sure what it’s called but I’ll find a pic.

Here is the transformer and power pack

Refresh my memory. Does the smoke unit plug into the E-unit or is it wired directly to the p\u rollers? If it is plugged into the e-unit is the voltage going to the smoke unit the same, more or less than that of the track power? 

I have an 8633, a kissing cousin to your 8632, brothers by different mothers - I guess mine is a U.P. Anyway, I've attached the drawings for this series of engine. It has an electronic e-unit (0103), and the single switch on the bottom of yours is the e-unit lockout, not smoke. I too had a stinky smoke unit when I got this - smelled VERY burned, so I replaced it. The brand-spanking new one from Lionel smells the same. Must be my smoke fluid! Anyway, my grandson and I really don't care for the smell, so I installed a tiny slide switch behind the catcher of cows.

Kind of hard to tell from the pictures, but the switch handle is extra looong, and the switch is quite tiny - made things easier to turn on and off. I used JB Weld to epoxy the switch to the front of the lamp holder (which is part of the smoke unit), cut the feed wire to the smoke unit (but not the one to the lamp) and then heat-shrinked everything. It worked out good! And this is a nice little entry-level switcher - runs well! And with both a die cast shell and a traction tire, it's a good puller for its size!

I'm not convinced this smoke unit has any wicking, it's just a small unit with a very tiny hole in the top - in fact

I couldn't really see much down the stack - sort of looked like I might be seeing the end of a resistor - but certainly no batting of any kind. Does this one look like yours?

George

Bicboy95 posted:

I just looked into the possibilities of adding a switch and yes it’s possible, however it’s a modification and it wasn’t ever implemented by Lionel. You can purchase a basic switch and wire the hot and ground straight through a switch board and it will be able to turn on and off. Issue is I don’t run the thing enough to ever run it dry and everytime I have run it the typical six drops of fluid is added (until yesterday my personal mixture) even with Lionel’s product however it’s still smoking and shutting off. I disconnected my solder and resoldered the connections, cleaned off the resistor with a light degreaser, cleaned the piston... the list goes on. I can’t seem to figure out if the darn thing is really the issue or if my E-unit’s resistance is off. The smoke unit is set for 16ohms and a 16v intake. The E-unit is supposed to push 18 volts straight to the unit however because the lamp is attatched and is supposed to draw a few volts as well. Either way this is more complicated than I think I’ve been making it seem. I’m gonna start experimenting with the other electronics in the engine and see where that goes. Strange part is run without the smoke unit altogether and it’s fine...

Bic , if it’s running fine with out the smoke unit, for the moment, I’d take it out and leave it out before you do some damage to the electronics. I’m gonna look through my stuff and see if I have one. I’m pretty sure I do....I wouldn’t stress messing with that smoke unit anymore....it’s got something weird going on....as others have mentioned, you could be on the verge of a meltdown or possibly even a fire. Take the smoke unit out of the equation, and run the engine at a nice, slow steady pace for a good while and record the voltages you see....be sure to cap any bare wires you come across. Post your voltage findings back here so all of us can make sure you have no more odd anomalies happening....I’ll find you a smoke unit, and test it thoroughly. I’ll post the results up here before sending it to you....only thing as all of have mentioned......no more mad scientist!...ha ha ha!..........Pat

Took a little more to time think about this. This engine has the 103 or 107 electronic e-unit. The only thing wired to it is 2 wires for power, 2 wires to motor, and 2 wires to lockout switch. The smoke unit should be wired to track power. Do you have a voltmeter?  Can you tell me what voltage you are running this engine at. Put the voltmeter probes at the track lock-on or on the track terminals on the back of the transformer and run the train as you normally would and lets us know at what volts it is running. This thing should fly at 10 - 12 volts by itself. If your running at 16 to 18 volts there is something wrong or you are trying to pull an awful large train with this little engine. The wheels might be binding or the motor going bad. Animal hair and carpet fibers around the axles and gears have killed a lot engines over the years. Especially these small can motor engines. If you are using that high of voltage and it is running slow it is a wonder the high amperage draw hasn't taken out the e-unit by now. These engines weren't made to carry heavy loads. They were made for starter sets that had 4 or 5 cars that you could add a couple more cars to before you needed to buy a stronger engine. Did you use an ohm meter on all three of these smoke units. Were they all original part number units. Did they all indeed read 16 ohms. I have an 8141 smoke unit which is a dead drop in to the one you have except it has a set of contacts that make and break for I assume a sound of steam engine and tender and the resistor in it reads 29+ ohms. I see that the 16 ohm resistor is what came with the smoke unit they used in this engine. At 16 ohms and 16 to 18 volts this thing is probably just too **** hot. High heat, high smoke volume, then meltdown. This just seams like too low of a resistance for that high of voltage. When you replace it try to find one the older ones that have the higher ohm heat resistor. I see Lionel is out of stock. Makes you wonder.

GeoPeg posted:

I have an 8633, a kissing cousin to your 8632, brothers by different mothers - I guess mine is a U.P. Anyway, I've attached the drawings for this series of engine. It has an electronic e-unit (0103), and the single switch on the bottom of yours is the e-unit lockout, not smoke. I too had a stinky smoke unit when I got this - smelled VERY burned, so I replaced it. The brand-spanking new one from Lionel smells the same. Must be my smoke fluid! Anyway, my grandson and I really don't care for the smell, so I installed a tiny slide switch behind the catcher of cows.

Kind of hard to tell from the pictures, but the switch handle is extra looong, and the switch is quite tiny - made things easier to turn on and off. I used JB Weld to epoxy the switch to the front of the lamp holder (which is part of the smoke unit), cut the feed wire to the smoke unit (but not the one to the lamp) and then heat-shrinked everything. It worked out good! And this is a nice little entry-level switcher - runs well! And with both a die cast shell and a traction tire, it's a good puller for its size!

I'm not convinced this smoke unit has any wicking, it's just a small unit with a very tiny hole in the top - in fact

I couldn't really see much down the stack - sort of looked like I might be seeing the end of a resistor - but certainly no batting of any kind. Does this one look like yours?

George

That is the exact one! That may be what I need to do. I keep telling myself it’s gotta just be a faulty product because I’ve tried every which way to find a solution but none seem to work... this may be my final move.

Forest posted:

Took a little more to time think about this. This engine has the 103 or 107 electronic e-unit. The only thing wired to it is 2 wires for power, 2 wires to motor, and 2 wires to lockout switch. The smoke unit should be wired to track power. Do you have a voltmeter?  Can you tell me what voltage you are running this engine at. Put the voltmeter probes at the track lock-on or on the track terminals on the back of the transformer and run the train as you normally would and lets us know at what volts it is running. This thing should fly at 10 - 12 volts by itself. If your running at 16 to 18 volts there is something wrong or you are trying to pull an awful large train with this little engine. The wheels might be binding or the motor going bad. Animal hair and carpet fibers around the axles and gears have killed a lot engines over the years. Especially these small can motor engines. If you are using that high of voltage and it is running slow it is a wonder the high amperage draw hasn't taken out the e-unit by now. These engines weren't made to carry heavy loads. They were made for starter sets that had 4 or 5 cars that you could add a couple more cars to before you needed to buy a stronger engine. Did you use an ohm meter on all three of these smoke units. Were they all original part number units. Did they all indeed read 16 ohms. I have an 8141 smoke unit which is a dead drop in to the one you have except it has a set of contacts that make and break for I assume a sound of steam engine and tender and the resistor in it reads 29+ ohms. I see that the 16 ohm resistor is what came with the smoke unit they used in this engine. At 16 ohms and 16 to 18 volts this thing is probably just too **** hot. High heat, high smoke volume, then meltdown. This just seams like too low of a resistance for that high of voltage. When you replace it try to find one the older ones that have the higher ohm heat resistor. I see Lionel is out of stock. Makes you wonder.

Hey Pat I read the ohms on the smoke units at 16 almost exactly it fluctuates slight between 15.5 and 16 I have to find my pops electronics meter I don’t have one myself and his is pretty tucked away. I had the ohm reader just cause I used to make vaporizer coils, you’d think I was better at figuring out electronic issues by my last statement but not the case😂. I’ve disposed of my concoction and have started using mega-steam on all my other units. I haven’t touched the NYC flyer since last we spoke and im about to change out the whole chassis E-unit smoke unit assembly because what you said was correct and the can motor seems to be running odd. Now I will check the track power before I do this however I tried both of my transformers on separate track and got the same results. The one is a CW-80 and the other is the one I posted earlier in the feed both are also brand new or lightly used. My CW-80 is from the factory and the other one (i don’t know the designation for) is my grandfathers and was only a Christmas train transformer. Both conventional though and both run well with my other locos. Once I find that volt reader I’ll get back to you again. Thanks guys!

Joe

Bicboy95 posted:

GeoPeg posted:

I have an 8633, a kissing cousin to your 8632, brothers by different mothers - I guess mine is a U.P.

I'm not convinced this smoke unit has any wicking

I couldn't really see much down the stack - sort of looked like I might be seeing the end of a resistor - but certainly no batting of any kind. Does this one look like yours?

George

That is the exact one! That may be what I need to do. I keep telling myself it’s gotta just be a faulty product because I’ve tried every which way to find a solution but none seem to work... this may be my final move.

I'm fairly certain I remember reading in some instructions (I know, who reads those???) that it said you needed to keep some smoke fluid in this unit "At All Times". I guess I can believe that, because a) it never shuts off (before I installed my switch) and b) it's made of plastic with a heating element inside, and c) there seems to be a recurring theme of burning up. 

And that's why I put the switch in 

George

GeoPeg posted:

Bicboy95 posted:

GeoPeg posted:

I have an 8633, a kissing cousin to your 8632, brothers by different mothers - I guess mine is a U.P.

I'm not convinced this smoke unit has any wicking

I couldn't really see much down the stack - sort of looked like I might be seeing the end of a resistor - but certainly no batting of any kind. Does this one look like yours?

George

That is the exact one! That may be what I need to do. I keep telling myself it’s gotta just be a faulty product because I’ve tried every which way to find a solution but none seem to work... this may be my final move.

I'm fairly certain I remember reading in some instructions (I know, who reads those???) that it said you needed to keep some smoke fluid in this unit "At All Times". I guess I can believe that, because a) it never shuts off (before I installed my switch) and b) it's made of plastic with a heating element inside, and c) there seems to be a recurring theme of burning up. 

And that's why I put the switch in 

George

Yep I see your point very well😂😂 I’m heading out in a minute to go buy a switch and I just purchased all new internals including an e unit for the engine. I had another look and realized some of the e units solder was worn away and though that it needs replacing. I went through a fella I found on ebay and he does refurbishment and sells the parts for a lot less than lionel does on the site and here’s the kicker! They’re in stock through him but never through lionel haha. It was decently cheap and I’ve got plenty of experience taking these suckers apart now. The E-unit is a simple place in and connect where needed but I have to take some small non-wear items from the old chassis.

Bicboy95 posted:

GeoPeg posted:

Bicboy95 posted:

GeoPeg posted:

I have an 8633, a kissing cousin to your 8632, brothers by different mothers - I guess mine is a U.P.

I'm not convinced this smoke unit has any wicking

I couldn't really see much down the stack - sort of looked like I might be seeing the end of a resistor - but certainly no batting of any kind. Does this one look like yours?

George

That is the exact one! That may be what I need to do. I keep telling myself it’s gotta just be a faulty product because I’ve tried every which way to find a solution but none seem to work... this may be my final move.

I'm fairly certain I remember reading in some instructions (I know, who reads those???) that it said you needed to keep some smoke fluid in this unit "At All Times". I guess I can believe that, because a) it never shuts off (before I installed my switch) and b) it's made of plastic with a heating element inside, and c) there seems to be a recurring theme of burning up. 

And that's why I put the switch in 

George

Yep I see your point very well😂😂 I’m heading out in a minute to go buy a switch and I just purchased all new internals including an e unit for the engine. I had another look and realized some of the e units solder was worn away and though that it needs replacing. I went through a fella I found on ebay and he does refurbishment and sells the parts for a lot less than lionel does on the site and here’s the kicker! They’re in stock through him but never through lionel haha. It was decently cheap and I’ve got plenty of experience taking these suckers apart now. The E-unit is a simple place in and connect where needed but I have to take some small non-wear items from the old chassis.

In case you can't find the (small) switch locally, you can order it thru Lionel, 625-3664-303 or I'm certain there will be any number of purveyors on amazon or ebay. We used to have an electronic component supply store in Akron, the kind where you can browse the entire day and find an infinite number of things you don't need, but definitely want (hmmmm, sounds like a train store...), but I don't know where the store went - probably followed Radio Shack out of town. 

Bicboy95 posted:

Forest posted:

Took a little more to time think about this. This engine has the 103 or 107 electronic e-unit. The only thing wired to it is 2 wires for power, 2 wires to motor, and 2 wires to lockout switch. The smoke unit should be wired to track power. Do you have a voltmeter?  Can you tell me what voltage you are running this engine at. Put the voltmeter probes at the track lock-on or on the track terminals on the back of the transformer and run the train as you normally would and lets us know at what volts it is running. This thing should fly at 10 - 12 volts by itself. If your running at 16 to 18 volts there is something wrong or you are trying to pull an awful large train with this little engine. The wheels might be binding or the motor going bad. Animal hair and carpet fibers around the axles and gears have killed a lot engines over the years. Especially these small can motor engines. If you are using that high of voltage and it is running slow it is a wonder the high amperage draw hasn't taken out the e-unit by now. These engines weren't made to carry heavy loads. They were made for starter sets that had 4 or 5 cars that you could add a couple more cars to before you needed to buy a stronger engine. Did you use an ohm meter on all three of these smoke units. Were they all original part number units. Did they all indeed read 16 ohms. I have an 8141 smoke unit which is a dead drop in to the one you have except it has a set of contacts that make and break for I assume a sound of steam engine and tender and the resistor in it reads 29+ ohms. I see that the 16 ohm resistor is what came with the smoke unit they used in this engine. At 16 ohms and 16 to 18 volts this thing is probably just too **** hot. High heat, high smoke volume, then meltdown. This just seams like too low of a resistance for that high of voltage. When you replace it try to find one the older ones that have the higher ohm heat resistor. I see Lionel is out of stock. Makes you wonder.

Hey Pat I read the ohms on the smoke units at 16 almost exactly it fluctuates slight between 15.5 and 16 I have to find my pops electronics meter I don’t have one myself and his is pretty tucked away. I had the ohm reader just cause I used to make vaporizer coils, you’d think I was better at figuring out electronic issues by my last statement but not the case😂. I’ve disposed of my concoction and have started using mega-steam on all my other units. I haven’t touched the NYC flyer since last we spoke and im about to change out the whole chassis E-unit smoke unit assembly because what you said was correct and the can motor seems to be running odd. Now I will check the track power before I do this however I tried both of my transformers on separate track and got the same results. The one is a CW-80 and the other is the one I posted earlier in the feed both are also brand new or lightly used. My CW-80 is from the factory and the other one (i don’t know the designation for) is my grandfathers and was only a Christmas train transformer. Both conventional though and both run well with my other locos. Once I find that volt reader I’ll get back to you again. Thanks guys!

Joe

I have a smoke unit for you Bic, I just haven’t had a chance to mess with it....in fact, it’s still in a beater locomotive I have laying around. I’ll run it on the layout with 5 or 6 cars, and see what it does. Then we’ll compare notes....dig up a voltmeter, or buy a cheap one at Harbor Freight, or something like that........Pat

harmonyards posted:

Bicboy95 posted:

Forest posted:

Took a little more to time think about this. This engine has the 103 or 107 electronic e-unit. The only thing wired to it is 2 wires for power, 2 wires to motor, and 2 wires to lockout switch. The smoke unit should be wired to track power. Do you have a voltmeter?  Can you tell me what voltage you are running this engine at. Put the voltmeter probes at the track lock-on or on the track terminals on the back of the transformer and run the train as you normally would and lets us know at what volts it is running. This thing should fly at 10 - 12 volts by itself. If your running at 16 to 18 volts there is something wrong or you are trying to pull an awful large train with this little engine. The wheels might be binding or the motor going bad. Animal hair and carpet fibers around the axles and gears have killed a lot engines over the years. Especially these small can motor engines. If you are using that high of voltage and it is running slow it is a wonder the high amperage draw hasn't taken out the e-unit by now. These engines weren't made to carry heavy loads. They were made for starter sets that had 4 or 5 cars that you could add a couple more cars to before you needed to buy a stronger engine. Did you use an ohm meter on all three of these smoke units. Were they all original part number units. Did they all indeed read 16 ohms. I have an 8141 smoke unit which is a dead drop in to the one you have except it has a set of contacts that make and break for I assume a sound of steam engine and tender and the resistor in it reads 29+ ohms. I see that the 16 ohm resistor is what came with the smoke unit they used in this engine. At 16 ohms and 16 to 18 volts this thing is probably just too **** hot. High heat, high smoke volume, then meltdown. This just seams like too low of a resistance for that high of voltage. When you replace it try to find one the older ones that have the higher ohm heat resistor. I see Lionel is out of stock. Makes you wonder.

Hey Pat I read the ohms on the smoke units at 16 almost exactly it fluctuates slight between 15.5 and 16 I have to find my pops electronics meter I don’t have one myself and his is pretty tucked away. I had the ohm reader just cause I used to make vaporizer coils, you’d think I was better at figuring out electronic issues by my last statement but not the case😂. I’ve disposed of my concoction and have started using mega-steam on all my other units. I haven’t touched the NYC flyer since last we spoke and im about to change out the whole chassis E-unit smoke unit assembly because what you said was correct and the can motor seems to be running odd. Now I will check the track power before I do this however I tried both of my transformers on separate track and got the same results. The one is a CW-80 and the other is the one I posted earlier in the feed both are also brand new or lightly used. My CW-80 is from the factory and the other one (i don’t know the designation for) is my grandfathers and was only a Christmas train transformer. Both conventional though and both run well with my other locos. Once I find that volt reader I’ll get back to you again. Thanks guys!

Joe

I have a smoke unit for you Bic, I just haven’t had a chance to mess with it....in fact, it’s still in a beater locomotive I have laying around. I’ll run it on the layout with 5 or 6 cars, and see what it does. Then we’ll compare notes....dig up a voltmeter, or buy a cheap one at Harbor Freight, or something like that........Pat

Today’s not my day... went to harbor freight got the volt reader car battery died while I was there😩😩 here’s what I’m getting from the transformer fellas. First picture is from the CW-80 2nd is from the old school dial type that came with the NYC starter set.

Update on my last post. Maxed out the transformers and I got these reading. (Note I’ve never turned either transformer up this high due to the older scout and the other starter set I have derailing if they are turned up that high. 

I had no doubt that the transformers work. At what voltage do you have to run the engine with and without a train behind it. How many cars do you usually run in  your train? 

Forest posted:

I had no doubt that the transformers work. At what voltage do you have to run the engine with and without a train behind it. How many cars do you usually run in  your train? 

Ditto what Forest replied, we’re interested and what the locomotive does. 1st, just the loco,running at a slow steady pace, 2nd with a string of cars you normally run..........Pat

Forest posted:

I had no doubt that the transformers work. At what voltage do you have to run the engine with and without a train behind it. How many cars do you usually run in  your train? 

My usual pull is 7 cars. I’ve run 8 before but just for a short while and it was only to test a light up poultry boxcar I received. And I’m sorry I forgot to post the actual running volts it was at 11.6-12V for both tracks and using both transformers.

Bicboy95 posted:

Forest posted:

I had no doubt that the transformers work. At what voltage do you have to run the engine with and without a train behind it. How many cars do you usually run in  your train? 

My usual pull is 7 cars. I’ve run 8 before but just for a short while and it was only to test a light up poultry boxcar I received. And I’m sorry I forgot to post the actual running volts it was at 11.6-12V for both tracks and using both transformers.

Let’s make sure we’re all on the same page, so 11 to 12 volts, is your engine, minus the smoke unit, pulling 7 or 8 cars..........Pat

Yea 7 cars is what I ran yesterday. It stayed between 11-12 as long as I kept the dial type in the green and the CW-80 below the 60 on the lever. Also added an on/off switch so we’ll see how that goes too. Gotta figure out a mounting option and I’m open to ideas😁 here’s a pic

Running fine for a while with the new motor, smoke unit, chassis, e-unit and the smoke unit switch then again just shuts off.... it did run longer without a smoke unit but it still eventually just shut off. I’m beginning to loose hope here. And I’m using lionel smoke fluid in the smoke unit as well just for the record😂😂

Bicboy95 posted:

Running fine for a while with the new motor, smoke unit, chassis, e-unit and the smoke unit switch then again just shuts off.... it did run longer without a smoke unit but it still eventually just shut off. I’m beginning to loose hope here. And I’m using lionel smoke fluid in the smoke unit as well just for the record😂😂

Just to add to this it’s not smoking like crazy anymore. Just a little bit from the bottom and a normal amount from the top.

Here’s what we see with smoke unit on.

update: 

Im getting a steady 8vac reading when on most stretches but when the train reaches one of the transformer terminal pieces I get a spike. Can anyone think of why that might be happening?