Two Day vs. Three Day York Question

When you find out, let us know.

Maybe the TCA committee should put out a questionnaire to the ones who sell at York to see what their thoughts are . Members would be able to chime in with their ideas and questions , afterwards the committee can come up with  a sample of the questionnaire in the news letter for us to see . After all it is they who are making the biggest effort and gamble . I for one only go on Fridays do to my work  , I have gone once on Saturday since joining back in the mid 80s .  Its just a thought . 

JohnnieWalker posted:

Maybe the TCA committee should put out a questionnaire to the ones who sell at York to see what their thoughts are . 

According to the TCA, a questionnaire was sent out to the vendors and table holders...the results was the 2 day event.

According to one of the table vendors I spoke with after the meet , from what I can summarize.  The new TCA President who made this decision is on a bit of a power trip.  He mentioned there were a lot of BOO's heard when he announced this change publicly.

nsapp1209 posted:

According to one of the table vendors I spoke with after the meet , from what I can summarize.  The new TCA President who made this decision is on a bit of a power trip.  He mentioned there were a lot of BOO's heard when he announced this change publicly.

TCA president doesn't make the decision, and as far as I know has no direct input.  ED runs the meet.  I don't know either the TCA or ED president, so have no direct knowledge of either person.  However, before throwing someone under the bus, I suggest that you get your facts straight and don't rely on second-hand information.

NSapp1209, Your information is wrong.

Well, I'll stand aside corrected on this.  I thought I'd share what I was told on this topic.  

Strange that no one on this board knows - or is able to share. One constant is that I (we) am no closer to getting my question answered. Is it a secret or just a subject the parties involved would rather put in their rear view mirror?

Will I get whacked if I keep asking questions?

Paul - just my imagination running away with me - Licata

I have a friend that is on the TCA ED board. One of the reasons as I understand it are the ancillary expenses for 2 vs 3 days. The Fair Grounds are rented/leased for the entire week. Emergency services are contracted. Basically a savings of 33% on this one line item.

If it must be 2days I hope it will be Thursday / Friday

Thursday is the best not to many people.I think you

would lose venders a lot of setup and driving for 2 days

Gilly@N&W posted:

I have a friend that is on the TCA ED board. One of the reasons as I understand it are the ancillary expenses for 2 vs 3 days. The Fair Grounds are rented/leased for the entire week. Emergency services are contracted. Basically a savings of 33% on this one line item.

Spot on.

Peter

Even though the decision to shorten the meet has been made and seems to be over and done, it would be interesting to see the results of that survey.  What was the percentage of venders/table holders who responded?  What exactly were the numbers for the responses by category?  I, for one, do not recall receiving any preliminary information or survey form to return.  Perhaps I have been expecting more from my members of the Eastern Division Board.

I don't know why we keep saying "2-day vs 3-day. Currently, the meet is 2 full days...half-day Thurs, full-day Friday, and half-day Saturday. Now it will be full-day Friday, and half-day Saturday (and please, don't talk about dealers not starting pack-up until 4 pm). 

As I've said before, do the meet only in October, for Wed-Sat. Allow dealers to only do 2 days if some wish to. Two Sat and Sun shows I go to in Allentown (vintage paper advertising, and vintage toys) have dealers doing this. They can set up for one day. It gives buyers a bigger exposure to different dealers, and a incentive to return the next day and spend $. 

Based upon my telephone discussion with Eastern Division President Dan Danielson, just prior to October 2019 York Meet, the only decisions made by the Eastern Division Board are that there will continue to be April and October York Meets and that the April 2020 Meet will be a 2-day Meet - Friday and Saturday, where Friday is a full day and the Saturday schedule remains as is. Indeed, he specifically indicated in writing that: "The changes we have made are not final but merely a first step."

Dan readily welcomes input from all TCA members, not just Eastern Division members, as well as from the manufacturers and dealers, regarding the format of future Meets. I am a member of METCA, and it was clear to me when I spoke to Dan that he genuinely appreciated my thoughts. Dan's email address is postwar@comcast.net. If you email him, he will provide his telephone number and set up a call with you.

For all who are interested in this topic, I urge you to reach out to Dan and make your voices heard.

Pat   

After having a rough time concentrating this morning after a nights sleep and morning coffee about the possible perception of my posts last night.  I felt I should add regarding my posts:  I do have a slight bias in this topic as I am a bit salty of the change to my normal York routine, but it's every other attendee's show too.  And there may be other factors in this change then I'm aware of.  Sorry if I'm adding irrelevant stuff here.  (Felt this was one thing to clear my head on this.)

nsapp1209 posted:

After having a rough time concentrating this morning after a nights sleep and morning coffee about the possible perception of my posts last night.  I felt I should add regarding my posts:  I do have a slight bias in this topic as I am a bit salty of the change to my normal York routine, but it's every other attendee's show too.  And there may be other factors in this change then I'm aware of.  Sorry if I'm adding irrelevant stuff here.  (Felt this was one thing to clear my head on this.)

Thank you for owning it. 

Personally, I share your dislike of the schedule change and think that it will be detrimental in the long run, but that's just one person's opinion, and I know that there are lots of things to consider.  (There are plenty of other threads about that.)

Irish Rifle has a very constructive post above.  I suggest that you give it a little time and then compose an email with your thoughts to the ED president.

irish rifle posted:

 

For all who are interested in this topic, I urge you to reach out to Dan and make your voices heard.

Pat   

It would also be good if Dan reads this "York" OGR section. I see no reason for a separate email from me. Heaven knows, I've posted my 2 cents enough.

"" Based upon my telephone discussion with Eastern Division President Dan Danielson, just prior to October 2019 York Meet, the only decisions made by the Eastern Division Board are that there will continue to be April and October York Meets and that the April 2020 Meet will be a 2-day Meet - Friday and Saturday, where Friday is a full day and the Saturday schedule remains as is. Indeed, he specifically indicated in writing that: "The changes we have made are not final but merely a first step." ""

      This is still a major contradiction to 1) the PA announcement made at noon on Thursday, 10-17-19 prior to the start of the show, 2) the posted EDTCA website York schedule , and 3) the EDTCA Facebook post on 08-25-19 announcing the changes back to the 2 day format and that all future shows will be two days (Friday and Saturday).  

As long as they keep having it and I'm able to attend, I'll keep doing so.

The only real bummer for me is the impact to the social aspect of York.  

As I age, I've enjoyed the more leisurely pace of the 3 day meet as it allows a less rushed York experience and allows for a good dose of socialization both on and off the fairgrounds.  The switch back to a 2 day meet will definitely impact this and that's a bummer (to me).

-Greg

Gilly@N&W posted:

I have a friend that is on the TCA ED board. One of the reasons as I understand it are the ancillary expenses for 2 vs 3 days. The Fair Grounds are rented/leased for the entire week. Emergency services are contracted. Basically a savings of 33% on this one line item.

This says it all. It’s huge expense savings and rightly so. As in the years past two days are fine.  Everybody saves money and TCA can stay strong. 

PA Anthracite posted:

"" Based upon my telephone discussion with Eastern Division President Dan Danielson, just prior to October 2019 York Meet, the only decisions made by the Eastern Division Board are that there will continue to be April and October York Meets and that the April 2020 Meet will be a 2-day Meet - Friday and Saturday, where Friday is a full day and the Saturday schedule remains as is. Indeed, he specifically indicated in writing that: "The changes we have made are not final but merely a first step." ""

      This is still a major contradiction to 1) the PA announcement made at noon on Thursday, 10-17-19 prior to the start of the show, 2) the posted EDTCA website York schedule , and 3) the EDTCA Facebook post on 08-25-19 announcing the changes back to the 2 day format and that all future shows will be two days (Friday and Saturday).  

Fair point. I heard the same announcement at the Meet. My best guess is that the Eastern Division felt that they needed to say something about this at the Meet and publish a long term schedule on their website and their Facebook page, as they always have. However, I do not believe this changes what Dan communicated to me a few bays before the October 2019 Meet as I noted in my earlier post and that the Eastern Division continues to look at this issue with an open mind for Meets beyond the April 2020 Meet.

Pat 

Greg Houser posted:

As long as they keep having it and I'm able to attend, I'll keep doing so.

The only real bummer for me is the impact to the social aspect of York.  

As I age, I've enjoyed the more leisurely pace of the 3 day meet as it allows a less rushed York experience and allows for a good dose of socialization both on and off the fairgrounds.  The switch back to a 2 day meet will definitely impact this and that's a bummer (to me).

-Greg

I am with Greg on this 100%. Many of us attend York for the social aspect. I really do not buy any more trains, I have no more room and I have plenty to use. As long as York is around, I'm attending the 2 or 3 day show. EDTCA does a great job putting on this event. As for them saving 33% and going back to the former layout of the show, so be it. Attendance is not what it use to be and it costs big bucks to put on the show. 

IT STILL WILL BE "YORK". 

P.S. I am glad the negative nancy has nothing to say here!😁 Lol!

Will I get whacked if I keep asking questions?

And Railrunnin Paul, I could always have some New Yorkers come up to Boston and have you whacked! Good to hear from you, my friend. You need to visit the new club location if you come down to NJ.

Perhaps to early to know, will Lionel be at both meets or only October?   

Gilly@N&W posted:

I have a friend that is on the TCA ED board. One of the reasons as I understand it are the ancillary expenses for 2 vs 3 days. The Fair Grounds are rented/leased for the entire week. Emergency services are contracted. Basically a savings of 33% on this one line item.

Tom, that type of info makes the reduction in days seem logical.  As the meet continues to attract less people, all the costs that are fixes by the number of days becomes a bigger portion of the overall effort to put on this great event.

Economics is the driving factor behind the organization and length of the ED/TCA York meet. I would assume that the audience, vendor and ticket revenue will be nearly the same for a two day vs a three day event. When we were going I never attended more than one day on an admission ticket that was good for three.  The York event is an expensive meet to put on.  If you add up the cost of hall rentals, security, utilities, sanitation, transportation, setup and clean-up it is sizable. That all must be paid for from ticket and table sales. The ED must always compare what they take in to what they spend for this event. If they don't maintain a positive cash flow then the meet is not possible. Whatever decision the ED makes to keep the meet solvent and running is therefore based on profit.

Ted Bertiger posted:

.............

P.S. I glad the negative nancy has nothing to say here!😁 Lol!

Beetlejuice!

Two days, three days, one day: all same-same to me. I've gone to York without a cent in my pocket and had a great time, and gone there with cash and credit card in my hot, sweaty hand and had just as much fun. 

Where else are you going to go and see that many trains? York is the dream I wished was true when I was a kid in the 1950's.

Alabama Joe posted:

Perhaps to early to know, will Lionel be at both meets or only October?   

I believe Lionel has stated that they will attend only the October Meet in the future.

I have attended every York since 1984 and enjoyed every one. 

I enjoyed the two days event much better than the 3 day. I also only attended one day no matter no matter how long they were scheduled. I would be happy if it was just one day, Friday or Saturday but then again that is just me.

Dave