Types of soldering

Experience will say it better.

In some case I used a small torch as assistance when I was applying the last heat shot using a pencil soldering. All depend the mass of brass you will work with. 

Soldering start from big mass to less mass not the opposite.

I built all my stuff using a 40 watts pencil soldering, resistance soldering and small torch.

Silver solder is good and bad. Due the high melt point after used, make difficult to fix some mistakes. 60/40 is more easy but contain lead. personally I don't have the right recipe.

AG. 

 

 

+1

 

Different irons for different projects.

 

I love my RSU.  A 40 watt iron is handy for other projects.  Torch for large work-boiler assembly.  Pen torch for other-detail parts.  See what I mean?

 

Don't use the RSU on electronic boards-that's a loser and you'll have a junk board in short order!

 

I use liquid flux and 63/37 rosin core solder on everything.  Of course, different diameters are needed.

 

Good luck, let's see some photos of projects when you get started.

Thanks for the info. I had a feeling you used different ways for different jobs. I use a lot of silver solder when I'm building slot cars especially for the motors that can generate a good amount of heat. You don't want you motor falling out during a race.

I was hoping to make it to the next strausburg show but I'll be away that weekend. Hopefully I'll be able to do it soon. But I still need to get a resistance station.



Thanks,
Ralph

Ralph,

I have an American Beauty unit, 100 W.  Though expensive, it's excellent and the support is incredible.  

 

I don't normally say this, but it's an American made product from Michigan.

 

The stuff I've been able to do with it is incredible.  

Resistance soldering works best for alot of things. Soldering paste works great on detail parts as well.

check for wassco glo melt.

there is one in ebay.

I have one and work very well.

Andre.

For HO brass I was able to do everything with 35 watt and 100 pencil irons. When I started working on O scale stuff I had to add a pencil torch. Then I built my own resistance soldering outfit. I use them all. In addition consider getting different solder alloys of various melt temps. I have some at 450, others at 360 along with TIX solder which melts at 275F. This allows you to add small bits on top of other bits and not melt the first one off.

 

Pete

I never sprung for the resistance setup.  Your thread title led me to expect a discussion like this:

 

60/40 is close to the Eutectic point, and is a very good solder for beginners.  It is pretty much all I use, because it flows so easily with an 80 watt iron.

 

50/50 is stronger, and has a higher melting point.  You need a bigger iron or a resistance setup.

 

the so-called "silver solders" that are 3% silver and melt around the same range as tin/lead are quite good, but have very little flex - they seem brittle.  I have used them for high strength joints, but generally have little use for them.

 

Real "silver solder" is closer to pure silver, melts at 1100 or so degrees, and flows when brass or copper is cherry red.  You do not want to use this stuff on O Scale models unless it is a repair to a heavy casting or you are building a live steamer.

 

My GS-2 has a silver-soldered copper boiler.  I did it as an experiment, and because the copper is thick enough that it makes no difference that it is dead-soft.

 

I do not see how one would use the 1100 degree stuff on motors - the heat would turn the windings into copper globules, and the insulation would be ash.

Thanks for all the info. It's great having access to guys like you for advice.

Bob. I use stay brite silver solder for my slot cars. It holds really well under that much stress. Sorry I don't always explain myself well sometimes.

Thanks,

Ralph

Stay Brite is good stuff, but it probably shouldn't be confused with silver solder.

Ralph 4014,  Great to see you have a desire to learn soldering.  Don't become discouraged, as bob2 always says, you can always unsolder and do it over.  Soldering is a Black Art, don't become discouraged.  It can also be very rewarding and satisfying to see work done well.

Hi Ralph, soldering always seems difficult, and sometimes it can be without the right tools, but it's much easier to dismantle a badly soldered model than it is a badly glued one!  I offer my experience as a purveyor of Carr's solders and fluxes, but there are several other sources of solder which are much the same stuff, just with different names.

 

As someone mentioned above, start with the largest items first, usually chassis and boiler/body shell, using a higher temp solder such as 227c/440F tin/copper and 221c/430F tin/silver.  Having silver in the recipe makes a solder flow very easily and 'wets' metals faster than solders which do not contain silver.  Sometimes I pre-tin parts with silver-bearing solder simply because it makes whatever other type of solder I am wanting to use, stick much easier/faster - this is important because if you take too long to make a joint, the whole part is heating up and you risk other joints coming apart.  By the way, if you have any 221C/430F tin/silver, it is great for tinning the tip of your iron, to protect it from corrosion and improve heat transfer.

 

Silver-bearing solders spread out very thin, making them great for laminating flat parts together, while solders without silver, such as the 227c/440F tin/copper tend to build up thicker, making them good for joining parts at right angles because you can build up a thick fillet in the corners for extra strength.

 

The next step down in melting points are 60/40 tin/lead (183C/356F) and 179C/354F tin/silver/lead, again the presence of silver makes the latter quite runny when molten.  By this time you would be using these attach smaller details.  I find that I often don't need to use lower-temp solders than these (except when soldering white-metal (pewter) castings, which have a similar melting point, around 221C/430F) because by now you would be using only a tiny amount of solder on a pencil-tip iron so you can get in and out before anything nearby has a chance to come loose.

 

As an aside, 179C/354F tin/lead/silver is very handy for soldering electrical wiring, and I find it very good for soldering nickel-silver rail to copperclad sleepers because it does not leave any blobs to be scraped off.

 

Below that comes 138C/280F and 100C/212F bismuth/lead solders which may not be particularly relevant to you but I mention them for the sake of completeness - these are used in the UK/Australia/New Zealand where we often see cast white-metal details, whereas these seem to be comparatively rare in the USA.

 

Other small tricks to help the job along....

It is often useful to use pins or screws for alignment purposes, which can be cut off and filed flush later.  I prefer to pre-tin both mating faces separately, then press together, dab on liquid flux with a small artists' brush then apply heat, so that you are never left wondering if the solder has penetrated the joint properly.  While some people prefer to heat a joint and feed in solder wire, my hands are not steady enough so I put the solder on the tip of my iron and then run the tip along the joint which I have already liquid-fluxed.  None of the Carr's solders are flux-cored, so you must apply a liquid flux of some sort....the advantage of this is, the solder generally only goes where you put the flux, so a bit of care with how you go about it will greatly reduce clean-up later.  I am always impatient to get a model finished, and I view scraping off excess solder as a colossal waste of time.  And another trick for reducing the amount of clean-up due to solder spreading where you don't want it: hold the parts together where you want them to go, and rub all around with a soft pencil - the graphite stops the solder from sticking so it won't spread out beyond the joint.

 

Hope this is of some assistance,

 

Regards

Paul Woods

Whangarei, NZ.

Wow! Thanks for all the info Paul. I'll print this this out and keep it for reference.  I just have to get all the right tools before I jump in.

I have no doubt I can't learn to do this. Especially with all the advice on this forum.

Thanks,

Ralph

Okay, I was hoping to hear some comments on what you do if a nicely painted model (early OMI) starts to unsolder. Can't re-solder as the paint will be ruined. Somewhere was a thread on brass glue, but I can't find it now. Yes, brass glue...which I would never use on plumbing (which it was intended for),  but it might work on a model that has some broken solder seams.

 

Comments?

 

Butch

Epoxy? Super glue? I just use super glue for minor things, if something falls apart bad, then i bite the bullet- strip it solder and repaint. What ever glue you use, understand its a temporary fix.



       

Butch,

I kind of remember that also, but I don't remember the thread title.

 

I thought it was this ONE but after rereading the thread, I don't think so...I'll keep searching...

Given enough time, everything is temporary.

 

But I also recall seeing that "brass glue" and wondering as to its usefulness

Not necessarily, i've never had anything i soldered and painted come apart. If you do a good job with prep and solder properly it will be there for life. When you patch something with glue, its temporary. There is no replacement for doing it the proper way... Brass glue is going to be a form of epoxy read back of epoxy package, great for brass. Sure it is pay them their $7 and you can use on anything you want.



       

Yeah, I was hoping the original poster would have tried it and shared some comments. I Googled the product looking for reviews and found it has diametrically opposed respondents for plumbing uses....they either had great luck with it or it sprung leaks within days. Can't imagine using it for plumbing, but in a last ditch attempt to save a fantastic paint job, I would consider it for a brass model.

 

Butch