Undecorated O Scale

Mike, I think you're onto something here at least in some segments

Certainly, if I'm dropping $2,000 on a Legacy engine with all the goodies and gadgets, I'd expect it painted according to the model.  But, for us toy train or semi-scale guys (I think you're one based on reading your other posts), I've wondered if eliminating the decorating costs and forecasting of inventory based on road names would help the producers and distributors meet demand without excess carrying costs.

One of my clients bottles cough and cold meds and private labels (decorates) them for retailers while also offering their own brand. They label the predictably high volume versions like CVS and Walgreens (think NYC and Santa Fe) in sequence to stock. They also make blank, undecorated/blank "bright stock" for labelling on demand to order for all the low-volume labels. For those, labeling is only done to order so no worries about excess stock. Their own brand, I think, would equate to Lionel Lines. Some stores buy the company's brand for the shorter lead time.

Not a perfect analogy, but I've often wondered there'd be a way for dealers to convert blank engines into whatever roadnames and numbers we wanted at the store on demand. Or let us decorate our own at home. Of course, the Pennsy green and tuscan complicate matters further.

I have often thought that Lionel could have a design site where I could design an existing product to match my layout.  For example, I could do a GG-1 in NYC colors/scheme.  Lionel could make it and send it.

I know this would probably cost a fortune but it would be neat.

@Mike Wyatt posted:

I wish that Lionel (and would have for MTH if it was still developing new products) would ALWAYS include an undecorated, "black" version of every type of engine and car they release.  Atlas does this for their HO releases, and it would SEEM that a market exists for the same practice in O.

Atlas does always offer undecorated versions of their O-scale engines and rolling stock ... just in their Master Series, though.

But, I agree with you ... I always wished that Lionel would do the same.

By making undecorated versions of many of Lionel's offerings,  they could actually REDUCE the price of some of those expensive items by not having to pay royalties or licensing agreements.  Just think , Lionel could constantly make locomotives or cars until the dies wear out knowing that modelers will buy them . It sure beats waiting years for a reissue of a locomotive only to find out it's in a livery you don't want. 

Maybe lionel could partner with one of the decal companies and offer a voucher for a decal in the road name of your choice. Leave the model in undecorated /semi gloss finish  (decal ready) and it would be up to the modeler to finish.

@third rail posted:

By making undecorated versions of many of Lionel's offerings,  they could actually REDUCE the price of some of those expensive items by not having to pay royalties or licensing agreements.  Just think , Lionel could constantly make locomotives or cars until the dies wear out knowing that modelers will buy them . It sure beats waiting years for a reissue of a locomotive only to find out it's in a livery you don't want.

Maybe lionel could partner with one of the decal companies and offer a voucher for a decal in the road name of your choice. Leave the model in undecorated /semi gloss finish  (decal ready) and it would be up to the modeler to finish.

I interpreted Mike's post for engines but, you're right, it could easily extend to rolling stock.

I'd be a buyer of undecorated rolling stock to get what I want. For example, there aren't many options out there for O27/semi-scale modelers like me in the Nickel Plate Road. Other than some really low-quality 70s and 80s rolling stock, I've got just about every freight car Lionel, MTH, Industrial Rail, and K-Line made in non-scale.  I get it, it was never a giant road name, so they can't make everything. I understand that it's not economical to mass produce obscure road names, particularly if the market is flat or even declining. But, NKP is endearing to us northern Ohioans.

I'd love to make or have made an NKP tank car, for example, out of undecorated stock.  Or maybe a set of Alco FA-2s like the extremely hard-to-find Williams versions.

@third rail posted:

By making undecorated versions of many of Lionel's offerings,  they could actually REDUCE the price of some of those expensive items by not having to pay royalties or licensing agreements.  Just think , Lionel could constantly make locomotives or cars until the dies wear out knowing that modelers will buy them . It sure beats waiting years for a reissue of a locomotive only to find out it's in a livery you don't want.

Maybe lionel could partner with one of the decal companies and offer a voucher for a decal in the road name of your choice. Leave the model in undecorated /semi gloss finish  (decal ready) and it would be up to the modeler to finish.

If this is the case, then how come Atlas O undecorated items are sold at the same price as decorated items?

@prrhorseshoecurve posted:

If this is the case, then how come Atlas O undecorated items are sold at the same price as decorated items?

Because they can!

A custom paint, less work from un-decorated, IMO.  I've done,or had done (7). An Atlas GP7, and (6) Atlas SW9.   Atlas is good with detail parts. MU'ed SW9's required different Pilots/Handrails.

GP 7, Note the correct round handrail stanchions. Also note the model can be done without the dynamic brake blister.

First and Second set of SW9's

Third Set of SW9's

There was a paint trip to the far side (HO) ?? Life Like??.  These were painted but painted-over well.

@prrhorseshoecurve posted:

If this is the case, then how come Atlas O undecorated items are sold at the same price as decorated items?

I don't know what atlas's licensing agreements are.  In a perfect world undecorated models would be less expensive.

I would like to see a Kankakee Beaverville and Southern RS11 or a EJ&E SD40 but both those railroads are too small to have models decorated for them.

@third rail posted:

I don't know what atlas's licensing agreements are.  In a perfect world undecorated models would be less expensive.

Back in my HO days ( early 1960's - mid 1980's) undecorated Athearn kits, be they freight cars, passenger cars or locomotives, were always the same price as decorated.

Rusty

Those who would model their own railroad, would be a very small section, of a small market to begin with.  Interesting that Atlas would take the time. (Though un-decorated has to be pre-ordered just like all the other offerings).

Mike CT - I have a stable of diesels that I want to paint / re-paint to Penn Central.  While not the most complex paint scheme (black) I want to cut my teeth on some rolling stock first.  Getting the decals right is what I find the most intimidating.  Correct placement and then finishing them correctly.  When you can clearly and easily see the decal kills it for me.  Highly impressed with what you have done !

For custom or Fantasy roads, don't overlook repainting existing rolling rolling stock. I was lucky to obtain some MTH premiere boxcars that were the York fair cars and decided to make them into my fantasy LIRR scheme. The orange, yellow and gray paint was from Minuteman (Weaver paints) and the blue was Krylon. With the yellow/blue car, the paints had a bad reaction when I over coated it with Dullcote. The blue faded and the Yellow cracked. However when I airbrushed over the weathering it all tied together nicely. With the Orange/Gray cars I went straight to the weathering. I'll try to post additional pictures later of the finished weathered cars. The decals were all printed on my ink jet printer.

@L.I.TRAIN posted:

For custom or Fantasy roads, don't overlook repainting existing rolling rolling stock.

I agree with Steve.  Don't overlook cheap unpopular rolling stock.  I purchased this same premier hopper car three different times for less than $30. 

Get yourself a good toothbrush and some 91% alcohol or better and give it a bath.  In about 48 hours you can have this.

I have had existing cars custom painted in the livery of my choice. The first step is the painter strips the paint from the shell. In my experience the cost of a custom paint job is in the $70-100 range. My guess is the cost of stripping is a relatively small percentage of the overall cost of the job. I'm about to organize a custom painted loco, can order it undecorated from the importer, but am thinking about the lead time. Will my painter still be painting eighteen months from now? Clearly a custom paint job is easier on an undecorated shell. It looks like a toss up to me.

Jan

This probably goes without saying, but if anyone thinks they should go this route to save money, they would be mistaken.

It should be done because they really want something that does not exist, or they just have a passion to perform custom work.

Take my latest creation.  Just between primer, paint, tape, decals, other tools/supplies, etc I was near $100 for material.  That does not include the cost of the engine or take my time into account.

BUT... I have an engine that I love and does not exist anywhere else.  I claim to have the only Chessie 44 Ton in O Scale, unless someone can show me otherwise.

Have Fun!

Ron

I would guess that 80% of my stuff is custom painted.  Getting the old paint off is one of the biggest chores.   Sometimes the original artwork can still be seen etched into the plastic even after all paint has been removed.

It would be a welcome site to see things offered in undecorated versions.  AT REDUCED COSTS.

Ron,

Nice job on the 44 tonner!

I had a custom Bird Machine Company work train custom painted from a Lionel 622 switcher and assorted rolling stock. The late Buddy  Schwartz (rest in peace) created it for me.