Family 1953 American Flyer set still running under the tree at Christmas.
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Love it! I am also setting up my AF set in the back room for Christmas. Is that a 300 you're running?
#301 I believe only sold in 1953.
Thanks for the info. I did not know that. Mine has the plastic tender, so it would be 1953.
My Gramps collected Lionel. But that billboard and the Lionel billboard were on his layout representing the competition.
I like it! Neat! (was gonna say Neat O, but it is S 
)
Originally Posted by banjoflyer:
Originally Posted by TURTLE 2:
#301 I believe only sold in 1953.
If yours has a metal tender it is from 1946.
Reissued in 1953 with a plastic tender.
Mark
Actually, I believe the 1946 catalog listings can be misleading. Supposedly, Gilbert's idea was to produce 3 versions of each steamer. The versions ending in "2" were to have smoke and choo-choo, those ending in "1" were choo-choo only, and those ending in "0" were to have no special features. As it turned out, the Atlantic never got any special features in '46-'47 even though they are depicted in the catalog in various configurations. There may have been a prototype "301" in '46 using the pre-war choo-choo mechanism, but it is generally assumed that it never went into production. All the Atlantice were featureless 300s.
As far as the other locos, the K-5 came as a featureless 310 or a full-featured 312. The Hudson came numbered as 320, 321, or 322. In general, the 320 would be expected to have no special features, but many examples exist with smoke and choo-choo. The 322 is plentiful with both features, and the 321 typically is full-featured, though not quite as common as the 322. The 0-8-0 switcher and the 4-8-4 Northern only seem to have come as full-featured locomotives with their numbers ending in "2" as expected. To my knowledge, no locomotives were produced in '46-'47 with choo-choo only.
As for the 1953 version of the 301, it is, I think, the only version ever produced that fit the "if the number ends in "1" it's choo-choo only" rule. I have a few and all have the plastic tender, though some have reported them with the sheet metal tender, possibly leftover from earlier production.
I welcome any corrections to my understanding of the history of these engines, possibly by Bob Bubeck or one of the other experts.
In any case, props to TURTLE 2 for his continued enjoyment of a childhood treasure.
That tender would appear to be the plastic version.
Originally Posted by banjoflyer:
It does look like nearly everyone who follows Gilbert feels that a 1946 301 engine was never mass produced.
I searched for a picture of either set proposed to have such a loco, 4602 or 4604 and could find only a picture of a set described as a 4604 from a train auctioneer site.
The engine sure enough shows 301 on it but the site did not reveal what the tender was made of. Also a telling feature would be the brass weights on the cars. I believe these did not appear until 1948 so it's doubtful they would have appeared in a set numbered 4604 that would have been issued two years before the passenger cars were made.
This all shows how knowing the history of an item can help one make informed buying decisions.
Mark
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Yeah, I see auction sites on a pretty regular basis where someone has put together a "set" with component numbers picked from a book. The example on the Train Auctioneer site clearly shows a set of 1948 cars with a plastic 301 with reverse-in-tender and what appear to be the longer, type-D trucks in the tender. In other words, the 301 from 1953 like TURTLE 2 is running.
I'm pretty sure the plastic Atlantic boiler didn't appear until about 1952. It's easy to differentiate from the earlier Atlantics with its cast handrails and straight stack. The early '50s die-cast 1-piece boiler had a fluted stack and cast handrails that angled at about 30 degrees or so toward the pilot unlike the ones on the plastic version.
Of all the versions of the Atlantic, the most prototypically correct is the '46-'47 "short nose" 4-piece die-cast version. The 1948 version of the 302, while similar, needed an extended boiler in order to fit the (new for '48) smoke-in-boiler feature. I think the "long nose" casting was only used in one other version, the 4-piece 300AC typically seen in the 490T and 4901T sets of 1949.
Considering the fact that these early Atlantics were typically featured in the low-end set offerings, it's amazing that so many survived after a life of use/abuse. An example of yesterday's tech that will run forever.
Would the 302 with metal tender (of '48 per Greenberg's), then be the 301 of '46 that was apparently never mass produced?
Originally Posted by TrainsRMe:
Would the 302 with metal tender (of '48 per Greenberg's), then be the 301 of '46 that was apparently never mass produced?
No, the '46 catalog listed/depicted a 301 with choo-choo only in sets 4602 and 4604 (never produced), and the "featureless" (i.e., 300) version in the 4601 and 4603 sets that were the regular production items. The 302 from '48 was the first Atlantic with smoke and choo-choo and the only version of the 302/302AC with the 4-piece boiler and wire handrails.
You can see the '46 catalog page here:
