Unknown Tinplate Block Signals; help with ID?

I don't have a clue as the maker, but they look really nice.

If I had o take a stab at it, I would say they are homemade. Don't ever underestimate the abilities of the previous generations. We look at things today in a different way than people did in the first half of the 20th century. Also, many individuals were more hands on and had more access to machining tools. Remember, there used to be machine shops and fabrication factories in every town on almost every street corner.

What I look for when I see things like this, especially when they are similar in construction, is whether they were made from something else; like a snuff tin or such. Many of the homemade items were recycling items from general merchandise. With these signals, the bases are made of wood which was a common material for handymen and the mix of materials says to me that they were not mass produced. When you put them all side by side, you may start noticing differences like the pole is longer on one, or the curve of the eyebrow is different, or the holes and screws are in slightly different locations.

That's my take....

ARNO

I agree, I believe they are homemade.

I have a 'feeling' these could have been made by Madison Hardware during the war.

 They have English printing, the wood milled base and the heavy paint.

Yes, the English lettering and the even inch measurements make me think they are local, not European.  

One thing that struck me was that when you look at the bottom of the base, someone marked in pencil  from corner to corner to find the center of the block to drill the big hole for the wiring.  The hole itself is flat-bottomed, which means a forstner bit so almost certainly done in a drill press, but that's pretty basic equipment anyone with a home shop would have.

another feature is that it's a lot more solder than should be needed, where the head sits on the post.  Maybe poor soldering skills… or maybe intentional, to get a more realistic flared detail there.  Either way, that seems to say done by hand also?

i keep wondering if these are the only three, or if there are more out there somewhere?

Arno, you're right: my grandfather who lived with us when I was a kid, was a retired Pratt & Whitney engineer, and he made toys for us using all manner of found objects.  He's really where I got my start in tinkering and making things, but I was the baby boom generation and used new materials: he came from an earlier time and used what was at hand, mixing materials and used household objects in the way you describe.  In a thread a little while ago, Steve Eastman was talking about making a steam chest using a 3/4" copper pipe coupling and chrome tubing caps, and it reminded me of the toys grandpa Ralph made.

Ah, you assuming they were done at home. That's what most people these days think about when they see a homemade piece. The odds of the maker doing it at home are less than most think. A lot of people prior to WWII did not have the larger machinery at home, thus they did it at their work place.

The soldering is one of the keys to me that says homemade. Anyone who did this for a living on an assembly line was pretty good at it.

I would hope there are more out there, but most of the time they are thrown in the junk pile and discarded.

ARNO

So that raises the next question, do you think these are that old?  I was thinking 50's-60's?

They look to be constructed rather consistently for something home made. My guess: either they were kits, or made by a small outfit.

I don't see any reason to believe Madison Hardware might have made them.

The buildup of solder where the head meets the post was probably intentional.

I've been browsing pre WW2 British catalogues as these seem familiar,and both Bassett Lowke and Mills Brothers AKA Milbro made very similar signals. If that were the case,the English dimensions of the bases would also make sense. The deciding clue might be the thread sizes,such as the nut and stud sticking out from the back of the lamp housings,if those threads are British Association,my guess would be B/L or Milbro.

Cheers, Mark

CW and Mark, thanks for your comments.  Mark, any chance of you posting a scan or photo of the catalog pages you found, I would love to see something similar if it's out there.

On Mark's tip, I went searching for Bassett-Lowke signals and came up with these signals, found them here. (and scroll all the way to the bottom on that page)

I agree they are a similar style; maybe whoever made my black ones had something like these in mind?

Hojack,I would love to post some photos of the catalogue pages,but my I.T. skills don't go that far I'm afraid! I would gladly email you some photos of the relevant pages,but unsure how to exchange an email address here as I have not found any sort of private message facility. If I can get the photos to you feel free to post them here to help further the discussion.

Out of interest,and in case anyone else has them,the catalogues concerned are Bassett Lowke,model railways,November 1937,page 90 and Milbro,scale model railways,1936-37,page 88.

Cheers, Mark

I would still say they are homemade. Looking at the original pictures again, I can see inconsistencies in the shapes and curve of the eyebrow hoods. The face plates also look to be slightly imperfect. Not sure if the paint is original, but the black paint looks to have some age to it. Most companies that would be mass producing an item would not need to mark the center of each wooden block.

As for when they were made, definitely before the 50's-60's. Back in the late 20's and early 30's, signals like these were not all that common. Lionel had the 78 in 1924ish that wasn't really a block signal. Ives had the large, round-faced 331 starting in 1924, but it wasn't until the Lionel 99N in 1932 that there was a block signal of this design. But it wasn't cheap costing $5.50 in 1932 and then there was the great depression where many people resorted to making things as opposed to buying things (kinda the opposite of today). By the postwar days, the selection of these signals grew tremendously and they were not very expensive, so one would most likely of bought a Lionel 153 instead.

are all things that lead me to believe these were made in the 30's. They could have been made in great numbers for a local club layout. It would be interesting to see what sort of light sockets were used as this can also help date an item.

The Bassett-Lowke signals are intriguing, but far to perfect to compare to these signals.

ARNO

Okay, I opened the back of the head and here are the light "sockets", not sockets at all but hand-wound spiral of wire to match the thread on the bulb.  I'd say your handmade, depression-era theory is gaining traction!

Thank you!

That is very cool. The ingenuity of some individuals amazes me.

ARNO