UP 3985

Pretty boring, couldn't take more than 2 min. of that.

Popsrr nice video...I have liked this one.....alittle speed...

Or this one...turn up the volume and listen to the Challenger work...

Yep. Finest steam locomotive UP ever had. Pretty, too.

Ed M

Great videos Popsrr and Chris!  Yeah Hot Water, I'll bet it is boring for you to watch and slobber over something that you've done many times.  Thanks to UP, the steam crew and people like you we can live the dream as this is as close as it will ever get.

Happy Holidays to all.

Ken.

Thanks Ken. The problem is, I have seen MANY Skip's videos on Youtube over the years, and the vast majority of his stuff is all about pacing, i.e riding right beside the locomotive.

Every once in awhile, Skip captures a REALLY good run-by or start-up, and those are usually VERY good. I remember one scene he shot with 3985, westbound on Archer Hill, when we had to sop because the Pilot Crew when dead on the hours of service law. We made the pilot crew change right at some grade crossing, with lights , gates, and ringing bells. After we completed the change-out, Steve Lee whistled off, eased up until the crossing protection gates were activated and then REALLY went after it! Great sounds of 3985 accelerating.

You should still be able to find the scene on Youtube.

But all that riding beside the locomotive is pretty boring overall.

A picture of her prior to restoration.

http://www.rrpicturearchives.n...ture.aspx?id=2707189

Finally located Skip W's video. Look on Youtube for: UP#3985 12Feb04 @Burns,WY 

Don't know how to link to it, but with the title and SkipW, you can search for it. Turn the volume up also!

I subscribe to Skip's channel and I never saw this video before today - thanks for the suggestion!  I've embedded it below for convenience.

 

UP 3985 with a stack train running solo. Pretty much ends the debate about steam vs. diesel when it comes to raw power. Thanks for the post.

Nice video HW, she does sound great.

Yeah Matt I would say so...  Not bad at all considering it was just over 7800 tons. 

How about some cold weather running....

No thanks! I had to make the return trip from Houston, back to Cheyenne, in February. By the time we got north of Kansas City, it was below zero and was just brutal.

Chris/CWEX marvelous 3985 tape prompts a question: did elephant ears/smoke lifters actually "lift smoke/steam"? In other words, did they work?

In the vast majority of cases, especially on oil burning locomotives, the various designs of smoke lifting devices did indeed work!

Presume "elephant ears" became more effective, the higher the speed? Curiously, some railroads put them on (UP/800's) after leaving the builder and others took them off (Canadian National/their 4-8-4's) - both handled higher speed passenger assignments in the 80 mph range (CNR) to 100 mph (UP 800's).

Mark,

Speed is only one aspect of the "lifting of the gasses" issue. The main issue was/is mostly lower throttle settings, once that speed was obtained, i.e difficulty in maintaining full throttle ALL THE TIME. At lower throttle settings, the exhaust pressure may not be sufficient to lift the gasses high enough so as not to be sucked into the train ventilation systems. Thus the need for smoke lifters.

In this video you can see the smoke is up a bit.

But you can also see the smoke is higher on the 611 as well.  So I personally don't see the difference, but then again I bring no experience to the equation just an observation.

That had to be miserable.  Well, note to self.... no more winter videos.

Apples and oranges, Chris.

1) UP844 with 80" diameter drive wheels, was probably operating at a VERY reduced throttle, thus NOT making very much exhaust pressure.

2) N&W 611, with 70" diameter drive wheels, and handling a pretty respectable train load, was probably operating with a greater throttle setting. Plus, that "bullet nose" tends to be a pretty good smoke lifter also.

Was that the time UP brought 3985 to the Super Bowl at Reliant in Houston?

Ok, I see what your saying.  That nose on the 611 definetly would lift more air as opposed to pushing it as the flat face on the 844 would.  Thanks HW.

We'd have to check in with Ed King on this, but I think I remember that the 611 had

vents in the front of the stack in the streamlining that were supposed to help with

smoke lifting?

Ed Mullan

Haven't heard of that before. There is an opening in the cowling forward of the stack that gives you access to the top of the Worthington water tank (part of the feedwater system), but other than that, there isn't anything up that I would think could 'lift' smoke. 

Could be wrong though and according to my wife, I am many times a day......

No there aren't any vents up there, just the opening Will mentioned as seen here.  There actually was a panel that covered this area that I'm sure was removed for easier maint.

Chris,

Since the N&W J Class, as well as EVERY STEAM LOCOMOTIVE on the N&W, was coal fired, I would not ever expect any exhaust gas issues entering their passenger cars. Plus the N&W Engineers where EXPERTS at throttle and valve gear settings anyway.

Hi HW, forgive my ignorance on this but what would be the difference between coal vs. oil fired in terms of the exhaust gases entering the cars?   

"A picture of her prior to restoration."

wow, had never seen that.  thanks.

as to the clip of 3985 pulling away from the crossing, thanks for that Hot Water.

and that clip of 3985 with the stack train is one of my favorites.

Hey Chris,

Here is some random N&W info for you since you are a N&W fan......

In that picture you posted, on top of the engine, about 10 feet past the stack and just ahead of that steam exhaust (which is from the generator), notice the four small, round holes?  Two on the fireman's side, two on the engineer's?  Those are the four caps to the fill holes on for the sandbox. 

If you look close on the fireman's side, the cap to the rear doesn't sit up as high as the ones on the enginner's side.  That is from the dent left in the sand dome from the '56 wreck when the engine almost ended up in the Tug Fork.  Not the best shot to shot it clearly, but if you know what to look for, you will notice it in other shots from above. 

Now you can win the $800 round on Jeopardy someday! 

Thanks Will, if you go to the 3:26 mark in the video what you are describing is clearly visible.  Hey here are a couple questions that you may have an answer to.  Why were the bearing covers removed from the trailing trucks 2nd axle and off most of the axles on the tender?  Also around 89' or 90' the whistle was moved back towards the turret, why the change? Just curious if you or anyone knows the answers....thnx in advance.

Hot Water, a potentially dumb question regarding 3985 (but really about any articulated engine):  are the engines normally "in sync" or not?  if so, roughly what percentage are they out of sync?  if they are in sync, what keeps them in sync?

and on that video pulling away from the crossing, what is a "pilot crew."  (and thanks for bringing that video to attention, it was great watching her step away.)

The engines are not synchronized, nor are they designed to be.  Each engine set is independent of the other, only drawing steam from a common throttle valve.   They go in and out of sync due to a variety of conditions.

Rusty

Rusty is pretty much correct. Being two separate steam engines under one boiler, i.e. steam supply, the two engines tend to "do their own thing", especially at slower speeds. However, as speed increases, they do indeed get "into sync", and the 8 separate exhausts do sound like just 4 exhaust due to harmonic vibrations. Thus, at speeds above about 25MPH, the two engines on 3985 tended to "become one" and you only tended to hear 4 exhausts per revolution.

The MTH sound packages for simple articulated steam locomotives, seems to have this phenomenon down pretty well. Assuming that is what you are asking about. 

"The MTH sound packages for simple articulated steam locomotives, seems to have this phenomenon down pretty well. Assuming that is what you are asking about. "

i think this is they way my lionmaster big boy sounds as well, but i was really asking about the real thing.  

i really have to see (and hear) 3985 when she gets back in action.

In UP's video on the 3985 there is an excellent example of the 3985 starting out, and at first the exhaust beats are out of sync and then slowly begin to come in to sync....very cool.

Since Big Boys and Challengers have dual stacks, do the two sets of cylinders have 1 dedicated stack each, or do all 4 cylinders blow through both stacks? The UP did a fair amount of work in "tuning" the steam locomotive exhaust, so that one exhaust was not clashing with an immediate earlier exhaust......just like highly tuned automotive racing engines. Reduced power loss resulted.

So did the FEF-2s and FEF-3's.

Two separate exhaust stands, so that the front engine exhaust stand is aligned with the front stack and the same for the rear engine exhaust stand and rear stack.

Union Pacific refined steam power to the outer limits, but does not get quite the same degree of recognition as the Norfolk & Western. Would have to rate the N&W as top champion, but would put UP, Santa Fe (4-6-4's, 4-8-4's, 2-10-4's), and Pennsylvania (T1's and Q2's) in the "super power" steam category. Would also give a nod to the New York Central and their highly refined, powerful Niagaras and Chesapeke & Ohio's Allegheney. These were all locomotives that functioned in day to day service, not wild experiments like Delaware & Hudson's 500 psi boilered 2-8-0 or Canadian Pacific's 3 phase 850 psi boilered 2-10-4.