UP 4014 Update, Boring the Cylinders

Yep...lets see if we can start this one over.  The other thread had all kinds of abbreviated "not so nice" words and personal attacks toward the end.  Guys...I realize that emotions get the best of some of you but we don't need to run off folks with inappropriate wording and inaccurate information.  

Alan

Underwood 1930’s Boring Machine at the UP Steam Shop

Underwood 1930’s Boring Machine at the Mid-Continent Railway Museum. 

Chicago & North Western steam locomotive #1385 gets its cylinders bored using the Underwood Boring Machine, a device nearly as old as the locomotive it is helping to restore.

This short video shows a rebuilt Underwood Boring Machine in action at the Mid-Continent Railway Museum. Play time, about two minutes.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Oq1_z-jQvaw

As a rail-fan I find these classic machines very interesting. It is nice to see these historic boring machines being used in the process of restoring both of these locomotives.

Gary: Rail-fan from Michigan

I think that's one of the things I found most interesting about the clip, the fact that they restored an ancient shop tool just to do the job.  I wonder what other long forgotten tools and techniques they are using to restore the old UP steam?

gunrunnerjohn posted:

I think that's one of the things I found most interesting about the clip, the fact that they restored an ancient shop tool just to do the job.  I wonder what other long forgotten tools and techniques they are using to restore the old UP steam?

Me, too … I think that is so cool. Everything they're doing there.

Like I said in the deleted thread …. seems like a fun place to work, if I were a bit younger and less broken. lol

Good luck, UP steam shop.

This time, no sillyness. ( And I apologize) But how is the larger size of the cylinder made up by the piston size?

Larger rings only?

Ed

Ed Mullan posted:

This time, no sillyness. ( And I apologize) But how is the larger size of the cylinder made up by the piston size?

Larger rings only?

Yes, depending on how much material is removed from the bore, i.e. thus increasing its inside diameter. Also, remember that unlike internal combustion engines, the "rings" are NOT pre-stressed, as they have large flat spring steel pieces behind, forcing them outward against the cylinder walls. Lubrication is provided by force-feed of water soluble lubricant (valve oil or also called steam oil) sprayed into the incoming steam flow. The valves are lubricated the same way.

Ed

The video and pix are awesome.  Thanks, John, and others ....

Yep, great, interesting stuff. I was at Steamtown last weekend for Railfest, next time I'm there (or Strasburg) I'd like to take the shop tour. I'm not sure what is more interesting to me--the process (especially when vintage equipment or techniques are utilized) or the end product! It's one reason why I greatly admire the work of Roland Murphy, founder of RGM Watch Co (also here in PA) and the stunning work he produces from using antique engine-turning machines.

Thanks, Hot.

Ed

CNC lathe for the boring & machining of railway wheels. (Modern Process)

I wonder how it was done back in the 30’s & 40's .................. ?

Gary: Rail-fan

Watching what it takes to restore one of these old steamers makes what went into building them almost a century  ago even more amazing. The engineers and designers did everything by hand, no computers obviously back then. Just the tooling alone is incredible.

Thanks for sharing the videos.

trainroomgary posted:

CNC lathe for the boring & machining of railway wheels. (Modern Process)

I wonder how it was done back in the 30’s & 40's .................. ?

Gary: Rail-fan

In my past life, I was the Manufacturing Engineer for a locomotive builder with responsibility for the wheel and axle line.  What is pictured above shows a CNC vertical turning lathe (VTL), with robotic load / unload.  The third to last photo shows a touch probe verifying that the part is placed in the chuck in the correct position.  

The machine shown, including the tooling, are pretty much the same since the 1960s.  The robot loading the lathe was not used, it was loaded manually with a crane, with a similar but much simpler lifting fixture used on the end of the robotic arm.   Yea, carbide tooling grades / coatings have changed, the old VTL machines followed the same machine code, but ran off of a mylar, or even paper tape.   There was no memory to hold the part program.   Prior to NC, the work was all done on manual VTL machines, and a skilled operator had to make the machine tool move with a hand wheel at the end of the lead screw to actually make the cutting head move.  The machine may or may not have been equipped with an automatic feed mechanism, but it was still up to the operator to watch his dimensions, and make adjustments as necessary.  Bullard and Monarch were three companies that were the big suppliers of older manual VTL machines, and then NC / CNC machines.  There were others, but I'd have to do some searching, but those were the ones I worked with.

Notice that the shiny parts are what the VLT machined.  That is the axle bore and hub.  The wheel profile is done at the wheel forging supplier's facility in a wheel lathe.  The wheel profile is now done in CNC lathes, but "back in the day", probably would have been done on a machine with a hydraulic tracer attachment, and before that technology, a "form tool" that was plunged into the metal with the profile ground into the tool.   

RSJB18 posted:

Watching what it takes to restore one of these old steamers makes what went into building them almost a century  ago even more amazing. The engineers and designers did everything by hand, no computers obviously back then. Just the tooling alone is incredible.

Thanks for sharing the videos.

I agree! I certainly respect and understand the importance of modern computer and the impact it has made in every industry, but I really love and respect the ingenuity of the old mechanical machines.  

I worked for a manufacturing company for 5 years that used both old tech, some from 1912 and new state of the art tech.  The old tech was great, and typically a) had never been duplicated or improved upon, b) simply wasn't worth replacing as the cost versus the benefit was to low, or c) was just of the correct simplicity to do it's job that something modern really wasn't needed.  

We also had old equipment which had been modified with NC and CNC control systems.  We had some large lathes which would have been much more costly to replace than upgrade in house.  At the core the company also had many home developed and manufactured machines that simply weren't available.

It was awesome to see equipment from 1912 next to brand new 4400 watt Bystronic CNC lasers both performing their jobs with excellence.

It's equally as awesome to see it here.  It may even be economical doing it this way than having a subcontractor perform the work.

That's what I need - an automatic driver tire lathe.  I have learned to dislike doing them one at a time from a piece of pipe.