Each of the big class one railroads issued press releases today about notifications to all shippers and passenger agencies concerning the impending national RR gridlock over PTC implementation by December 31, 2015. The basic gist is, none of the railroads will attempt to operate ANY passenger trains nor hazardous material shipments in violation of congress. The problems with PTC implementation vs. conflicts with the FCC, means that no railroad in the U.S. will be able to comply with the FRA and congress's mandated PTC into effect by December 31, 2015. Thus, on January 1, 2016 UP, BNSF, CSX and NS will no longer be able to operate passenger trains and hazardous shipments over any of their lines, unless congress issues an extension.
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So what you are telling me is everything was working fine until the government got involved?
So what you are telling me is everything was working fine until the government got involved?
Does that surprise you?
So what you are telling me is everything was working fine until the government got involved?
Does that surprise you?
Wait, so this means, no more long distance Amtrak trains, or commuter railroads such as Metra until these laws are fixed? What about excursion trains?
In a candid letter to a U.S. senator, BNSF Railway’s chief executive,
Carl Ice, said September 9:
But portions of both transcontinental routes will not be operational by
the December 31 deadline set by Congress in 2008. Nor will commuter zones
in Chicago, Seattle and Minneapolis. Ice says that to avoid operating on
PTC-mandated subdivisions where PTC will not be installed before the
deadline would force traffic on secondary routes unequipped to handle
it and lead to a paralysis of the railroad.
Ice goes on to explain the railroad’s position. First, BNSF reads the law
as saying no train can legally operate on a PTC-mandated line if PTC is
not in service by December 31, rather than no train carrying hazardous
substances. Then he goes on to say: “BNSF, as a matter of law, corporate
policy and principle, does not willfully violate safety statues or
regulations or ask our employees to do so. The announced enforcement
policy by the [Federal Railroad Administration] of imposing fines for
non-performance puts BNSF in a position that will be difficult to
reconcile with our aforementioned unwillingness to willfully violate
safety laws or regulations. BNSF does not believe that it can pick and
choose which safety rules must be followed.” Ice adds that were his
railroad to operate over lines where PTC is not
in place and an accident occurs, the exposure to legal claims and
punitive damages would be significant.
So what you are telling me is everything was working fine until the government got involved?
Does that surprise you?
Wait, so this means, no more long distance Amtrak trains, or commuter railroads such as Metra until these laws are fixed? What about excursion trains?
Sounds logical that "no passenger trains" would also include any excursion trains on either of the four big railroads. Which also begs the question; what will CN/IC and CP do?
I have a feeling Congress will extend the deadline.
I have a feeling Congress will extend the deadline.
With the current do-nothing congress, I wouldn't be so sure.
I have a feeling Congress will extend the deadline.
With the current do-nothing congress, I wouldn't be so sure.
only when the power plants run out of coal, we have no fuel for our precious autos, the grain rots in silos! hey, maybe this will save the Calif water problem? No way to ship to the east coast, no need for water!
I have a feeling Congress will extend the deadline.
With the current do-nothing congress, I wouldn't be so sure.
only when the power plants run out of coal,
Actually the current administration would just love that! Besides, lots of power plants have already changed over to burning natural gas anyway.
we have no fuel for our precious autos, the grain rots in silos! hey, maybe this will save the Calif water problem? No way to ship to the east coast, no need for water!
Jeff C
Jeff C
+1.
Coal trains may not be hazardous but oil trains certainly are. I wonder how much of that traffic BNSF is going to decide they cannot handle.
Jeff C
+1.
Coal trains may not be hazardous but oil trains certainly are. I wonder how much of that traffic BNSF is going to decide they cannot handle.
According to the statements, the "TIH Chemicals" are the hazardous ones in question (Toxic by Inhaled Gas).
I have a feeling Congress will extend the deadline.
With the current do-nothing congress, I wouldn't be so sure.
Speaking of our congress, as far as passenger trains, haven't they been trying to cut Amtrak's funding and make things difficult for them for some time already.
PTC is a big mistake. It was a political knee jerk reaction to a single collision in Southern Californis where several people were killed. The 5 or 6 billion dollars that the railroads are spending on PTC would have saved many more lives if it had been spent on grade separations.
A much bigger problem is highway deaths. The five or ten people who die each in railroad accidents are nothing compared to the projected 40,000 who will die on the highways this year. And that number is on the raise again. About 1/3 of those deaths will be in accidents involving large trucks. Where PTC is needed is on the highways. Large trucks should have governors to limit their speed, GPS monitored by law enforcement agencies to stop drivers from driving beyond the allowed hours, and many more drug tests of truck drivers.
You guys are taking this really well. After I read the first entry I expected a lot of sarcasm, skepticism, blame and derision. Much to my surprise, i see none of that here.
only when the power plants run out of coal
Isn't that the current policy, to close coal-fired power plants?
I always enjoy reading Fred Frailey. This column is no exception: http://cs.trains.com/trn/b/fre...ll-be-paralyzed.aspx
So what you are telling me is everything was working fine until the government got involved?
I'm one of the 20% of government employees who actually works (I have to as I work for the LA County Emergency Operations Center).
Congress is full of a lot of would-be useless government middle-managers who don't have a clue and have probably never had to plan a project or be responsible for its success/failure (there are some people behind the scenes who are actually accountable). They make public promises on subject matters they have little accurate information about, then blame the people charged with actually doing the work when the unrealistic promised deadline can't be met.
The last thing these people should be doing is playing with 1:1 scale trains.
PTC is a big mistake. It was a political knee jerk reaction to a single collision in Southern Californis where several people were killed. The 5 or 6 billion dollars that the railroads are spending on PTC would have saved many more lives if it had been spent on grade separations.
A much bigger problem is highway deaths. The five or ten people who die each in railroad accidents are nothing compared to the projected 40,000 who will die on the highways this year. And that number is on the raise again. About 1/3 of those deaths will be in accidents involving large trucks. Where PTC is needed is on the highways. Large trucks should have governors to limit their speed, GPS monitored by law enforcement agencies to stop drivers from driving beyond the allowed hours, and many more drug tests of truck drivers.
Gee, we NEVER hear about how grade separation will cure all ills including cancer.
About 1/3 will involve Large Trucks, lets NOT worry about the other 2/3 of accidents.
Of that 1/3 that involves large trucks, are you aware that approximately 76% of auto/large truck accidents, it is the AUTO that is at fault? let's not talk about that shall we?
Large trucks should have governors to limit their speed
Most already do, and we get flipped off enough because of them, be Careful what you wish for, you just might get it. News flash, Split speed limits are DANGEROUS, ALL TRAFFIC should move at the same speed, there should be ONE Speed Limit, on any road. Split speed limits on two lane roads are beyond Stupid. If you are in Favor of Governors and Highway Safety, then Governors should be applied to ALL vehicles.
GPS monitored by Law Enforcement Agencies,
And this will be paid for out the same funds that will provide 100% grade separation, I suppose?
You simply have NO IDEA, what you are talking about.
You would probably be Very surprised, just how many truckers are railfans.
I suspect, that the average trucker knows more about railroads, than the average railfan knows about trucks.
27+ Years, 2,500,000+ miles experience, moving freight over this country's highways,
Doug
Even the FRA says the deadline can't be met and suggests Congress grant an extension. They reported this three years ago.
The report can be found here.
David Johnston wrote:
A much bigger problem is highway deaths. The five or ten people who die each in railroad accidents are nothing compared to the projected 40,000 who will die on the highways this year. And that number is on the raise again.
Motor vehicle deaths in U.S. by year[edit]
Year | Death | Vehicle miles travelled (billions) | Fatalities per 100 million VMT | Population | Fatalities per 100,000 population | Change (in percent) |
---|---|---|---|---|---|---|
1899 | 26[3] | |||||
1900 | 36 | 76,094,000 | 0.047 | NA | ||
1901 | 54 | 77,584,000 | 0.070 | 47.12% | ||
1902 | 79 | 79,163,000 | 0.100 | 43.38% | ||
1903 | 117 | 80,632,000 | 0.145 | 45.40% | ||
1904 | 172 | 82,166,000 | 0.209 | 44.26% | ||
1905 | 252 | 83,822,000 | 0.301 | 43.62% | ||
1906 | 338 | 85,450,000 | 0.396 | 31.57% | ||
1907 | 581 | 87,008,000 | 0.668 | 68.82% | ||
1908 | 751 | 88,710,000 | 0.847 | 26.78% | ||
1909 | 1,174 | 90,490,000 | 1.297 | 53.25% | ||
1910 | 1,599 | 92,407,000 | 1.730 | 33.38% | ||
1911 | 2,043 | 93,863,000 | 2.177 | 25.79% | ||
1912 | 2,968 | 95,335,000 | 3.113 | 43.03% | ||
1913 | 4,079 | 97,225,000 | 4.195 | 34.76% | ||
1914 | 4,468 | 99,111,000 | 4.508 | 7.45% | ||
1915 | 6,779 | 100,546,000 | 6.742 | 49.56% | ||
1916 | 7,766 | 101,961,000 | 7.617 | 12.97% | ||
1917 | 9,630 | 103,268,000 | 9.325 | 22.43% | ||
1918 | 10,390 | 103,208,000 | 10.067 | 7.95% | ||
1919 | 10,896 | 104,514,000 | 10.425 | 3.56% | ||
1920 | 12,155 | 106,461,000 | 11.417 | 9.51% | ||
1921 | 13,253 | 55.03 | 24.09 | 108,538,000 | 12.210 | 6.95% |
1922 | 14,859 | 67.70 | 21.95 | 110,049,000 | 13.502 | 10.58% |
1923 | 17,870 | 85.00 | 21.03 | 111,947,000 | 15.963 | 18.22% |
1924 | 18,400 | 104.84 | 17.55 | 114,109,000 | 16.125 | 1.01% |
1925 | 20,771 | 122.35 | 16.98 | 115,829,000 | 17.932 | 11.21% |
1926 | 22,194 | 140.74 | 15.77 | 117,397,000 | 18.905 | 5.42% |
1927 | 24,470 | 158.45 | 15.44 | 119,035,000 | 20.557 | 8.74% |
1928 | 26,557 | 172.86 | 15.36 | 120,509,000 | 22.037 | 7.20% |
1929 | 29,592 | 197.72 | 14.97 | 121,767,000 | 24.302 | 10.28% |
1930 | 31,204 | 206.32 | 15.12 | 123,076,741 | 25.353 | 4.33% |
1931 | 31,963 | 216.15 | 14.79 | 124,039,648 | 25.768 | 1.64% |
1932 | 27,979 | 200.52 | 13.95 | 124,840,471 | 22.412 | -13.03% |
1933 | 29,746 | 200.64 | 14.83 | 125,578,763 | 23.687 | 5.69% |
1934 | 34,240 | 215.56 | 15.88 | 126,373,773 | 27.094 | 14.38% |
1935 | 34,494 | 228.57 | 15.09 | 127,250,232 | 27.107 | 0.05% |
1936 | 36,126 | 252.13 | 14.33 | 128,053,180 | 28.212 | 4.07% |
1937 | 37,819 | 270.11 | 14.00 | 128,824,829 | 29.357 | 4.06% |
1938 | 31,083 | 271.18 | 11.46 | 129,824,939 | 23.942 | -18.44% |
1939 | 30,895 | 285.40 | 10.83 | 130,879,718 | 23.606 | -1.41% |
1940 | 32,914 | 302.19 | 10.89 | 132,122,446 | 24.912 | 5.53% |
1941 | 38,142 | 333.61 | 11.43 | 133,402,471 | 28.592 | 14.77% |
1942 | 27,007 | 268.22 | 10.07 | 134,859,553 | 20.026 | -29.96% |
1943 | 22,727 | 208.19 | 10.92 | 136,739,353 | 16.621 | -17.00% |
1944 | 23,165 | 212.71 | 10.89 | 138,397,345 | 16.738 | 0.71% |
1945 | 26,785 | 250.17 | 10.71 | 139,928,165 | 19.142 | 14.36% |
1946 | 31,874 | 340.88 | 9.35 | 141,388,566 | 22.544 | 17.77% |
1947 | 31,193 | 370.89 | 8.41 | 144,126,071 | 21.643 | -4.00% |
1948 | 30,775 | 397.96 | 7.73 | 146,631,302 | 20.988 | -3.03% |
1949 | 30,246 | 424.46 | 7.13 | 149,188,130 | 20.274 | -3.40% |
1950 | 33,186 | 458.25 | 7.24 | 152,271,417 | 21.794 | 7.50% |
1951 | 35,309 | 491.09 | 7.19 | 154,877,889 | 22.798 | 4.61% |
1952 | 36,088 | 513.58 | 7.03 | 157,552,740 | 22.905 | 0.47% |
1953 | 36,190 | 544.43 | 6.65 | 160,184,192 | 22.593 | -1.36% |
1954 | 33,890 | 561.96 | 6.03 | 163,025,854 | 20.788 | -7.99% |
1955 | 36,688 | 605.65 | 6.06 | 165,931,202 | 22.110 | 6.36% |
1956 | 37,965 | 627.84 | 6.05 | 168,903,031 | 22.477 | 1.66% |
1957 | 36,932 | 647.00 | 5.71 | 171,984,130 | 21.474 | -4.46% |
1958 | 35,331 | 664.65 | 5.32 | 174,881,904 | 20.203 | -5.92% |
1959 | 36,223 | 700.48 | 5.17 | 177,829,628 | 20.369 | 0.83% |
1960 | 36,399 | 718.76 | 5.06 | 180,671,158 | 20.147 | -1.09% |
1961 | 36,285 | 737.42 | 4.92 | 183,691,481 | 19.753 | -1.95% |
1962 | 38,980 | 766.73 | 5.08 | 186,537,737 | 20.897 | 5.79% |
1963 | 41,723 | 805.25 | 5.18 | 189,241,798 | 22.047 | 5.51% |
1964 | 45,645 | 846.30 | 5.39 | 191,888,791 | 23.787 | 7.89% |
1965 | 47,089 | 887.81 | 5.30 | 194,302,963 | 24.235 | 1.88% |
1966 | 50,894 | 925.90 | 5.50 | 196,560,338 | 25.892 | 6.84% |
1967 | 50,724 | 964.01 | 5.26 | 198,712,056 | 25.526 | -1.41% |
1968 | 52,725 | 1,015.87 | 5.19 | 200,706,052 | 26.270 | 2.91% |
1969 | 53,543 | 1,061.79 | 5.04 | 202,676,946 | 26.418 | 0.56% |
1970 | 52,627 | 1,109.72 | 4.74 | 205,052,174 | 25.665 | -2.85% |
1971 | 52,542 | 1,178.81 | 4.46 | 207,660,677 | 25.302 | -1.42% |
1972 | 54,589 | 1,259.79 | 4.33 | 209,896,021 | 26.008 | 2.79% |
1973 | 54,052 | 1,313.11 | 4.12 | 211,908,788 | 25.507 | -1.92% |
1974 | 45,196 | 1,280.54 | 3.53 | 213,853,928 | 21.134 | -17.14% |
1975 | 44,525 | 1,327.66 | 3.35 | 215,973,199 | 20.616 | -2.45% |
1976 | 45,523 | 1,402.38 | 3.25 | 218,035,164 | 20.879 | 1.27% |
1977 | 47,878 | 1,467.03 | 3.26 | 220,239,425 | 21.739 | 4.12% |
1978 | 50,331 | 1,544.70 | 3.26 | 222,584,545 | 22.612 | 4.02% |
1979 | 51,093 | 1,529.13 | 3.34 | 225,055,487 | 22.702 | 0.40% |
1980 | 51,091 | 1,527.30 | 3.35 | 227,224,681 | 22.485 | -0.96% |
1981 | 49,301 | 1,552.80 | 3.18 | 229,465,714 | 21.485 | -4.45% |
1982 | 43,945 | 1,595.01 | 2.76 | 231,664,458 | 18.969 | -11.71% |
1983 | 42,589 | 1,652.79 | 2.58 | 233,791,994 | 18.217 | -3.97% |
1984 | 44,257 | 1,720.27 | 2.57 | 235,824,902 | 18.767 | 3.02% |
1985 | 43,825 | 1,774.18 | 2.47 | 237,923,795 | 18.420 | -1.85% |
1986 | 46,087 | 1,834.87 | 2.51 | 240,132,887 | 19.192 | 4.19% |
1987 | 46,390 | 1,921.20 | 2.42 | 242,288,918 | 19.147 | -0.24% |
1988 | 47,087 | 2,025.96 | 2.32 | 244,498,982 | 19.259 | 0.58% |
1989 | 45,582 | 2,096.46 | 2.17 | 246,819,230 | 18.468 | -4.11% |
1990 | 44,599 | 2,144.36 | 2.08 | 249,464,396 | 17.878 | -3.19% |
1991 | 41,508 | 2,172.05 | 1.91 | 252,153,092 | 16.461 | -7.92% |
1992 | 39,250 | 2,247.15 | 1.75 | 255,029,699 | 15.390 | -6.51% |
1993 | 40,150 | 2,296.38 | 1.75 | 257,782,608 | 15.575 | 1.20% |
1994 | 40,716 | 2,358 | 1.73 | 260,327,021 | 15.6403 | 0.42% |
1995 | 41,817 | 2,423 | 1.73 | 262,803,276 | 15.9119 | 1.74% |
1996 | 42,065 | 2,486 | 1.69 | 265,228,572 | 15.8599 | -0.33% |
1997 | 42,013 | 2,562 | 1.64 | 267,783,607 | 15.6892 | -1.08% |
1998 | 41,501 | 2,632 | 1.58 | 270,248,003 | 15.3566 | -2.12% |
1999 | 41,717 | 2,691 | 1.55 | 272,690,813 | 15.2983 | -0.38% |
2000 | 41,945 | 2,747 | 1.53 | 282,216,952 | 14.8627 | -2.85% |
2001[2] | 42,196 | 2,797 | 1.51 | 285,226,284 | 14.794 | -0.46% |
2002 | 43,005 | 2,856 | 1.51 | 288,125,973 | 14.926 | 0.89% |
2003 | 42,884 | 2,890 | 1.48 | 290,796,023 | 14.747 | -1.75% |
2004 | 42,836 | 2,965 | 1.44 | 293,638,158 | 14.588 | -0.52% |
2005 | 43,510 | 2,989 | 1.46 | 296,507,061 | 14.674 | 0.44% |
2006 | 42,708 | 3,014 | 1.42 | 299,398,484 | 14.265 | -2.79% |
2007 | 41,259 | 3,031 | 1.36 | 301,139,947 | 13.701 | -3.85% |
2008 | 37,423 | 2,977 | 1.26 | 303,824,640 | 12.317 | -11.0% |
2009 | 33,883 | 2,957 | 1.15 | 306,700,000 | 11.048 | -9.7% |
2010[2] | 32,999 | 2,967 | 1.11 | 309,326,000 | 10.668 | -3.5% |
2011[4] | 32,479 | 2,950 | 1.10 | 311,588,000 | 10.424 | -2.3% |
2012[1] | 33,561 | 2,969 | 1.13 | 313,914,000 | 10.691 | 2.6% |
2013[5] | 32,719 | 2,946 | 1.11 | 316,129,000 | 10.345 | -3.3% |
Actually it is a lot less than 40,000 a year dying on the highway each year, and according to the chart above, which shows 2013 as the last year for statistics, in the 18 years from 1996- 2013, the highway death rates have been DECLINING, with just 3 exceptions.
Unfortunately, it is more than 5-10 people that die each (Year?) in railroad accidents.
All Highway-Rail Incidents at Public and Private Crossings, 1981-2014 Source: Federal Railroad Administration
Year | Collisions | Fatalities | Injuries |
---|---|---|---|
1981 | 9,461 | 728 | 3,293 |
1982 | 7,932 | 607 | 2,637 |
1983 | 7,305 | 575 | 2,623 |
1984 | 7,456 | 649 | 2,910 |
1985 | 7,073 | 582 | 2,687 |
1986 | 6,513 | 616 | 2,458 |
1987 | 6,426 | 624 | 2,429 |
1988 | 6,617 | 689 | 2,589 |
1989 | 6,526 | 801 | 2,868 |
1990 | 5,715 | 698 | 2,407 |
1991 | 5,388 | 608 | 2,094 |
1992 | 4,910 | 579 | 1,975 |
1993 | 4,892 | 626 | 1,837 |
1994 | 4,979 | 615 | 1,961 |
1995 | 4,633 | 579 | 1,894 |
1996 | 4,257 | 488 | 1,610 |
1997 | 3,865 | 461 | 1,540 |
1998 | 3,508 | 431 | 1,303 |
1999 | 3,489 | 402 | 1,396 |
2000 | 3,502 | 425 | 1,219 |
2001 | 3,237 | 421 | 1,157 |
2002 | 3,077 | 357 | 999 |
2003 | 2,977 | 334 | 1,035 |
2004 | 3,077 | 372 | 1,092 |
2005 | 3,057 | 359 | 1,051 |
2006 | 2,936 | 369 | 1,070 |
2007 | 2,776 | 339 | 1,062 |
2008 | 2,429 | 290 | 992 |
2009 | 1,934 | 249 | 743 |
2010 | 2,051 | 260 | 887 |
2011 | 2,061 | 250 | 1,045 |
2012 | 1,985 | 230 | 975 |
2013* | 2,098 | 232 | 972 |
2014* | 2,287 | 269 | 849 |
Let's not let the FACTS, get in the way of spinning the Truth, into what you would LIKE to believe.
Doug
Curt
Curt
Good for them. There's a long-standing rumor that the reason the Amtrak Northeast Corridor runs fast and on schedule is because Congressmen use it to commute. I think it's perfectly appropriate to have them suffer the impact of their "decisions in a vacuum".
Not only are highway deaths of far greater concern, so are deaths by guns. Something like 500,000 deaths by guns have occurred since 9/11. What kind of twisted priorities does nothing about this?
Honestly, I think we all know what is going to happen here. At the last minute, congress will blink and extend the deadline. Crisis averted. End of discussion.
I have a feeling Congress will extend the deadline.
With the current do-nothing congress, I wouldn't be so sure.
I'll grant you they don't do much, but they'll fix this, if they know what's good for them. This is bigger than the debt ceiling.
Curt
I'm a little in the dark (again) What exactly is PTC?? Positive train control? which means?? a computer is monitoring the train , It's speed, location, and can apply an emergency application of the brakes??
Curt
Good for them. There's a long-standing rumor that the reason the Amtrak Northeast Corridor runs fast and on schedule is because Congressmen use it to commute. I think it's perfectly appropriate to have them suffer the impact of their "decisions in a vacuum".
The northeast corridor is owned an operated by Amtrak so they are on their own. If you remember the derailment a few months back in Philadelphia that was one of the few areas of the NEC where PTC was not yet in effect and Amtrak said they intended to meet the deadline.
It will have been 8 years and the railroads have had plenty of opportunities to make noise for technical, financial and political reasons all along. That they have chosen to wait until the last 120 days is just gamesmanship. No different than the US auto manufacturers whining about meeting safety, environmental and fuel economy standards.
Curt
Good for them. There's a long-standing rumor that the reason the Amtrak Northeast Corridor runs fast and on schedule is because Congressmen use it to commute. I think it's perfectly appropriate to have them suffer the impact of their "decisions in a vacuum".
The northeast corridor is owned an operated by Amtrak so they are on their own.
They still must comply with the LAW!!!
If you remember the derailment a few months back in Philadelphia that was one of the few areas of the NEC where PTC was not yet in effect and Amtrak said they intended to meet the deadline.
All well and good, except the FCC would not provide access to the need frequencies to communicate with the GPS functions of PTC. This overall issue has been a nationwide problem with the FCC.
It will have been 8 years and the railroads have had plenty of opportunities to make noise for technical,
Actually it is 7 years, and the railroads have been protection to FRA, FCC and various congressional representatives ever since 2008. The technology either doesn't exist, yet, or doesn't work properly. Another point is; the GPS location technology is not location accurate within 10 to 15 feet. Thus, the GPS location technology currently available to the public/ consumers/industry, will not be sufficiently accurate for railroad use. Why?? In multi track territory, location accuracy MUST be within 4 to 6 FEET! Otherwise, how does the computer system of PTC REALLY know what track your train is on? Only the military has such GPS/satellite location accuracy. Do we REALLY want the general public, industry, and the rest of the world access to our military GPS/satellite technology???
financial and political reasons all along. That they have chosen to wait until the last 120 days is just gamesmanship.
No they haven't! The railroads have been protesting to the FRA, DOT, and congressional representatives ever since the federal mandate went into effect, back it 2008. The ****ed technology simply doesn't exists, and what is now in place has technical flaws.
No different than the US auto manufacturers whining about meeting safety, environmental and fuel economy standards.
Give me a break! American industry is subject to rules and regulations set by technological idiots in Washington who have no clue about what they sign into law. They couldn't organize a one car funeral!
Not only are highway deaths of far greater concern, so are deaths by guns. Something like 500,000 deaths by guns have occurred since 9/11. What kind of twisted priorities does nothing about this?
This PTC seems like a double edged blade. Sure it's all well and good in the eyes of the public and your congress, making trains "safer" but I'm willing to bet that the highly skilled operators of these trains still experience collisions at level crossings and the odd oops here and there. Because people are still just as dumb as they were before this was implemented. The other side of the sword is an honest question: How many "foreign" power units run on away from home railways (BNSF power on CSX line)? How compatible are these systems supposed to be? The wiki article says there's a lot of different manufacturers depending on local. The GPS and radio should be universal but as many of you know, some companies might have proprietary codes written for their speed controllers and signal updates.
We'll have to watch and see what happens.
Curt
Good for them. There's a long-standing rumor that the reason the Amtrak Northeast Corridor runs fast and on schedule is because Congressmen use it to commute. I think it's perfectly appropriate to have them suffer the impact of their "decisions in a vacuum".
The northeast corridor is owned an operated by Amtrak so they are on their own.
They still must comply with the LAW!!!
If you remember the derailment a few months back in Philadelphia that was one of the few areas of the NEC where PTC was not yet in effect and Amtrak said they intended to meet the deadline.
All well and good, except the FCC would not provide access to the need frequencies to communicate with the GPS functions of PTC. This overall issue has been a nationwide problem with the FCC.
It will have been 8 years and the railroads have had plenty of opportunities to make noise for technical,
Actually it is 7 years, and the railroads have been protection to FRA, FCC and various congressional representatives ever since 2008. The technology either doesn't exist, yet, or doesn't work properly. Another point is; the GPS location technology is not location accurate within 10 to 15 feet. Thus, the GPS location technology currently available to the public/ consumers/industry, will not be sufficiently accurate for railroad use. Why?? In multi track territory, location accuracy MUST be within 4 to 6 FEET! Otherwise, how does the computer system of PTC REALLY know what track your train is on? Only the military has such GPS/satellite location accuracy. Do we REALLY want the general public, industry, and the rest of the world access to our military GPS/satellite technology???
financial and political reasons all along. That they have chosen to wait until the last 120 days is just gamesmanship.
No they haven't! The railroads have been protesting to the FRA, DOT, and congressional representatives ever since the federal mandate went into effect, back it 2008. The ****ed technology simply doesn't exists, and what is now in place has technical flaws.
No different than the US auto manufacturers whining about meeting safety, environmental and fuel economy standards.
Give me a break! American industry is subject to rules and regulations set by technological idiots in Washington who have no clue about what they sign into law. They couldn't organize a one car funeral!
To get me to believe industry lobbyists didn't have the opportunity to pretty much write the legislation just won't happen. That they were incompetent or took their toys home and refused to participate I would believe.
Not only are highway deaths of far greater concern, so are deaths by guns. Something like 500,000 deaths by guns have occurred since 9/11. What kind of twisted priorities does nothing about this?
Yeah and it's that same bunch pushing for smaller lighter vehicles that kill more people in a traffic accident ie; smart car vs Ford Excursion.
As a former teacher of government I can honestly say no one is more disgusted with the manner in which the government is functioning than I am. No one is more disgusted with the self serving Congress than I am. This thread is a perfect example of how a group of people, here on the OGR Forum, have a better understanding of the implications of a railroad slowdown/shutdown than do the members of Congress
i do not blame Congress in its entirety. Congress cannot elect itself. If the American people do not take on a greater role in electing better candidates or demanding term limits, we get what we deserve. DEMAND term limits. INSIST on throwing out Congress people who want to be sent back to Congress term after term. If this example is not enough, what is?
We all have the government to "protect us when we don't know any better"....... Who protects the government when they don't know any better
The other side of the sword is an honest question: How many "foreign" power units run on away from home railways (BNSF power on CSX line)? How compatible are these systems supposed to be? The wiki article says there's a lot of different manufacturers depending on local. The GPS and radio should be universal but as many of you know, some companies might have proprietary codes written for their speed controllers and signal updates.
Maybe Hot Water will correct me on this one, memory isn't what it used to be and I am no expert on all this. But, I have read a few articles in Trains Magazine about PTC and from my understanding there is NO standard and each Class 1 rail road is using the system or their choice. And as you say none of the different systems being marketed are compatible. That is a problem. I am not sure they have been fully tested and proven to work either. I believe the rail roads were wanting the FRA to provide standards to which they could follow and it never happened. I have seen proprietary systems in use first hand. Pretty much guarantees the manufacturer more business because it is way too expensive to switch to anything else.