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Originally Posted by Mike W.:

Doesn't UP have its own Cajon Pass track?  Its slightly above the triple track BNSF portion.

 

Does UP run more traffic on the Sunset Route or Overland Route?  What is a basic idea of the daily train count on either?

UP owns the former SP Palmdale Cutoff which parallels the former ATSF North Track routing but at a higher elevation through most of the pass.

 

I don't know the traffic split between UP trains using the former SP and those exercising UP's rights on the BNSF. Because I track movements on the BNSF via ATCS Monitor I can tell you that there are between 75 and 100 moves a day depending on the day of the week. These would include all moves, BNSF, UP and Amtrak on BNSF's 3 tracks, but not the trains using the former SP.

 

The former SP Tehachapi line hosts between 36-50 trains a day. My understanding is that although the line is owned by UP, the majority of trains are BNSF's.

 

It is also my understanding that there is more traffic on the Sunset and Los Angeles & Salt Lake routes, in and out of the LA basin, than there is on the Overland and Feather River routes up north.

 

 

The Palmdale Cutoff is a single mainline with 3 long sidings. There is a crossover at Keenbrook and Silverwood on the Cajon Sub that ties the Palmdale Cutoff into the BNSF mainline.

 

Most of the UP traffic uses the BNSF Cajon Sub as it has 3 mainlines from San Bernardino to Summit, so it's much easier to route traffic. Except for that fact that the UP crews go so d**n slow on the Cajon Sub

Last edited by Former Member

The UP line from Ogden to LA has always shared track with the ATSF from Dagget, CA to Riverside. In the 1960s SP built the Palmdale cutoff to allow traffic from Northern California to bypass Los Angeles and go directly to the Colton yard.  

 

After tne SP/UP merger there were crossovers placed at the top and bottom of the Cajon pass allowing the UP trains comming from Dagget to get off the BNSF line and use the Palmdale cutoff, but it appears that is not done very often. 

 

The Overland Route, either side of North Platte, NE, is the busiest track in the world based on ton miles. UP has been diverting traffic over the Sunset Route from the LA to Ogden route, to reduce traffic in the North Platte area.  This has reduced the number of trains using the BNSF from Riverside to Dagget and on to Ogden.  The level of traffic through North Platte may be declining as coal traffic is slightly declining. 

 

The Ports of Long Beach and Los Angeles are the busiest in the US. This traffic goes east on the BNSF up Cajon pass and east on the UP's Sunset Route.  The Sunset Route is the heaviest intermodal traffic route on the UP and this traffic has been growing.  UP has been doubling tracking the Sunset Route from LA to El Paso at the rate of about fifty miles a year. This work is about 2/3 finished. It appears that UP is slowing the work on the second track on the Sunset Route this year and is spending more money on the Gulf Port to Chicago routes.  There is speculation that this change may be due to the up coming opening of the new larger locks in the Panama Canal.  The larger locks may divert some container traffic from the West Coast to the Gulf Coast ports. 

 

The SP purchased a Rock island line from New Mexico to Kansas City, and rebuilt it in the 1980s.  With all the UP mergers, this former Rock Island gave the UP a direct route from Chicago to LA using the MoPac, former Rock Island and Sunset Route.  The Sunset Route also gives the UP routes from LA to Texas and the Gulf Coast, both high growth areas.

 

 

Last edited by David Johnston
Originally Posted by Mike W.:

WHat options is UP choosing between when it takes the BNSF Cajon route?

 

Doesn't the Overland Route bring all Chicago traffic to the west...splitting at Ogden to head to LA...or San Fran via Feather River and Donner?

The Donner and Feather River routes are less busy than the southern California lines because the Bay Area has less heavy industry and the port of Oakland doesn't have the volume of traffic that the port of Los Angeles does. Also, Oregon lumber traffic is a shell of what it once was.

Originally Posted by Mike W.:

WHat options is UP choosing between when it takes the BNSF Cajon route?

 

Doesn't the Overland Route bring all Chicago traffic to the west...splitting at Ogden to head to LA...or San Fran via Feather River and Donner?

BTW, technically speaking the term "Overland Route" refers to only the original Union Pacific - Central Pacific route from Omaha, NE to San Francisco, CA.

 

This was the route to San Francisco "over land" as opposed to the arduous and perilous sea voyage around Cape Horn to the port of San Francisco.

 

As a matter of fact, one of the curves on the Donner Pass route is nicknamed "Cape Horn" as it rounds the edge of a mountain near the town of Colfax.

 

The modern UP is composed of many lines that were acquired through mergers and purchases during its corporate lifetime. The line from Kansas City, MO to Gibbon, NE and the Los Angeles and Salt Lake are but two examples of the latter. These are not technically part of the Overland Route.

Last edited by Nick Chillianis
Originally Posted by AGHRMatt:

UP and BNSF also share track out in Sugar Land, TX. As the line along TX-59 used to belong to SP, this sharing is pretty recent. Don't know where the junctions are that feed into the line.

 

From what I've been able to find on the area, there used to be a Missouri Pacific line into the area. It appears that track was removed back in the 1980's.

Matt:

I used to live in Sugar Land and the sharing arrangement between SP and ATSF went back decades.  ATSF used the SP line into Houston as a shortcut for their passenger trains.  ATSF's own line into Houston ran through Rosenberg to the west of Sugar Land thence southeast toward Pearland and Galveston.  The line into Houston diverged at Pearland and came north.  Had Santa Fe passenger trains used this route into Houston when coming from the north, it would have added at least another half hour to an hour to their transit time.

 

The old MP line was gone and had left no traces by the time we moved to Sugar Land in 1985.  The area was booming with new subdivisions popping up and they had pretty much obliterated any trace of the old MP line.  The odd thing about that line was the Imperial Sugar mill was located right alongside the SP (now UP) main line but, the mill itself was still switched by an MP local using trackage rights over the SP.

 

Curt

Originally Posted by juniata guy:
Originally Posted by AGHRMatt:

UP and BNSF also share track out in Sugar Land, TX. As the line along TX-59 used to belong to SP, this sharing is pretty recent. Don't know where the junctions are that feed into the line.

 

From what I've been able to find on the area, there used to be a Missouri Pacific line into the area. It appears that track was removed back in the 1980's.

Matt:

I used to live in Sugar Land and the sharing arrangement between SP and ATSF went back decades.  ATSF used the SP line into Houston as a shortcut for their passenger trains.  ATSF's own line into Houston ran through Rosenberg to the west of Sugar Land thence southeast toward Pearland and Galveston.  The line into Houston diverged at Pearland and came north.  Had Santa Fe passenger trains used this route into Houston when coming from the north, it would have added at least another half hour to an hour to their transit time.

 

The old MP line was gone and had left no traces by the time we moved to Sugar Land in 1985.  The area was booming with new subdivisions popping up and they had pretty much obliterated any trace of the old MP line.  The odd thing about that line was the Imperial Sugar mill was located right alongside the SP (now UP) main line but, the mill itself was still switched by an MP local using trackage rights over the SP.

 

Curt

Thanks. Didn't know about the ATSF/SP relationship. Suspected Imperial Sugar was switched by MP since the track remnants seem to line up with more the old MP ROW. As best I can tell from the remnants of the tracks it looks like it was actually switched from the East side of the facility originally. Still reviewing old aerials/topo maps to get an idea. Visited the plant again during my last trip to Houston. Seriously thinking about modeling it.

They definitely accessed the mill property from the east.  Imperial was still open and functioning when we lived there and I would go over and railfan the local from time to time.

 

Your comment about modeling the old mill struck a bell with me.  When we lived there, I recollect two guys who were very active in the local Ntrak group built several modules representing the old Imperial Sugar mill.  The buildings themselves were incredibly detailed but, the track layout had been modified somewhat to comply with the Ntrak module alignment rules.  These guys used to set it up at local train shows and it always had a crowd around it because all the features were so recognizable..  I can remember the Kalmbach publication Great Model Railroads having a feature on these modules, I think in either the 1995 or 1996 edition.  The article showed the original track layout for the mill as well as the MP line that came into it from the south.  I still have that stashed away at home and will scan a copy to you if you are interested in seeing it. 

 

Curt

The SP line over Donner pass was two tracks Since about 1900.  When the UP bought the WP in 1982, they move all the Ogdon to Sacramento traffic over to the wP line leaving Donner without many trains.  SP took up one track, the older track which was steeper and had sharper curves.  When the UP merged with the SP they wanted to put the second track back, as the Donner line is about 70 miles shorter that the Feather River route.  But due to the tight track centers, 13 foot, they were not allowed to put the second track back in, so empty unit trains are still routed through the Feather River Canyon.  The canyon also gives them an alternate route in case of a derailment or snow storm on Donner. 

 

In about the middle of the Feather River Canyon, a line comes in from the north.  This is at Keddie,  location of the famous wye on a bridge.  This line is where the Great Northern trains came down from the north, then ran on the WP to Stockton, where they were turned over to the Santa Fe to continue to the south west.  With the merger of the UP and SP, the BN was given trackage rights to preserve this traditional routing. This north/south traffic through Keddie probably exceeds the volume of UP traffic that through the canyon east of Keddie.

 

If the UP ever does put the second track back over Donner Pass, and I think it is unlikely, it is possible that the UP would discontinue using the feather River Canyon east of Keddie, but the BNSF north/south traffic assures that the line as far east as Keddie will always be there. Much of this BNSF traffic through Keddie is the same traffic that then runs through Tehachapi into the southwest. 

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