UP Freight Hits Veterans Parade Float

Wow! I can't even imagine how something like that could happen.

Additional reports:

 

http://www.cbsnews.com/8301-20...s-texas-vets-parade/

 

also...

 

http://abcnews.go.com/US/dead-...7733749#.UKWhi6X3AlI

 That's sad news for everyone all the way around

 

 Prayers go out for all those effected .

 

My prayers to everyone and their families.  Such a horrible thing to have happen.

We just had one tonight in shebly county Ohio a CSX hit a car on the tracks .. A 77 yearold man car was stuck on the tracks and he'd called 911.. told 911 dispacher his car was stuck on the tracks and told him to get out and phone went dead.. People around that area call it dead track curve..theres a curve just before the crossing..cant see the train until its to late..You know I do feel bad for the engineers.. they got to live with the deaths when its not there falts..

I was wondering how if the gates worked and the engineers were running the horn why where they even on the tracks? Further reports are stating the the truck hauling the trailers was behind other traffic that did not move and this kept the trucl from getting off the tracks. What a shame. I sure hope the engineers get some counseling and understand it was not their fault. My sympathies certainly goes out to the killed, injured, and their families also.

There was a photo on Yahoo! that clearly showed the crossing gates were working and all of the intersection traffic lights were red.

 

This means that driver of the tractor-trailer stopped on the tracks for some reason.

 

Andrew

This is an incredible tragedy. 

What's really sad in my book is how anybody can stop a vehicle on a railroad track!!

It's a really tragic accident and yet it could have been prevented!

You have to think about who is the "loose nut" behind the steering wheel?

Most modern freight engines(each engine) weigh in at over 200 tons, some closer to 300 tons, plus each freight car weighs over 70 tons.

 

I hope the event organizer made sure the truck driver had a passenger endorsement on his class A CDL or he is in bigger trouble as well.

 

I live near West Palm Beach FL, not far from Fort Lauderdale and the Hess gasoline tank truck that was struck by Amtrak train about 15 years ago, nine people died from that accident at the CXS RR crossing area.

 

Lee F.

 

This reminds me of the Fox River Grove bus accident back in 95'.  The bus driver stopped on the tracks and cars in front of her were blocking her from pulling forward.  7 students died.

I imagine that will turn out to be what happened here since the vehicles were in a parade and probably moving in a closed-in column.  The driver of the truck may have had no way to clear the vehicles directly ahead on either the left or right sides.  A tragic event, to be sure.

This is just a terrible thing to happen.  I feel very sorry for those those injured and killed as well as the engineer and crew.

 

As the son of a Penn engineer I remember what it was like for him when he was involved in a accident with fatalities.  It is something lasts forever as it does for the families of the ones kin juried or killed.

 

We have a CSX line running thru town and it never ceases to amaze me how many times I see people sitting on the tracks because they are backed up behind cars.  What drives really nuts is when I see children in the cars.  

 

Ed

What a horrible accident, as a commercial driver I can tell you that you just don't cross the tracks unless you have enough clearance for your vehicle on the other side, no matter what.I can't imagine even fathoming the idea of stopping across the tracks with folks sitting on a trailer. If you **** some people off, or cars jump ahead and fill in what space there is, you just wait until its safe. If theres a gap in the parade,so what. Merely being stopped at a crossing is a problem in itself as you may have to run through four or five gears before you clear it.

I had a like situation this week.  I was on Fannin Street going NB, and mergered into Greenbrier.  It crosses the METRORail LRT line.  There is the RR crossing, then the Braeswood drive intersection.

 

There was a car stooped at the stop bar at Brayswood, some space, then the tracks.  I was driving an extened cab/bed pick-up.  I did not think I could clear METRORail, so I stopped at the RR stop bar.  People behind me were upset, but good thing I did.  Two METRORail trins came by before the light turned green.

 

According to preliminary reports the gates were operational and there's speculation that siren noise from the police cars during the parade may have drowned out the sound of the train's horn.

 

The crossing was obviously "clear" when the semi began to cross, then the train approached and activated the circuit for the gates while the semi was still straddling the tracks.  So I'm speculating the driver led himself into a false sense of security by assuming the traffic on the other side of the grade crossing would keep moving.

 

At any rate, a sad tragic event, and my thoughts are out to everyone involved in the incident.

I lay this directly on the shoulders of the driver of the truck.

"The train honked its horn, but the 18-wheeler could not go anywhere because of the other one being right in front of it," said Daniel Quinonez, who was in traffic that had been stopped by sheriff's deputies to allow the parade to pass.

I'm sorry, but you do not ENTER a railroad crossing until you see you have a clear path to get all the way THROUGH it. You NEVER put yourself in a situation where you have to stop ON the tracks! A "professional" driver (I use the term very loosely) should certainly know this. Obviously whoever was driving this truck was clueless.

Tailgating the vehicle in front of you - because you are not paying attention - is what killed these people. I don't need an "investigation" to determine the cause of this one. Just plain stupidity.

Rich, you are exactly right.

Yes, I agree.  It is common sense.

 

Larry

 

Sounds to me that the traffic control for the parade is to blame! 

 

It is just a bad thing to have happened!  Russ

No, Rich and the others are right. This is 100% on the driver of the truck. Also 100% preventable. Tragically stupid!

It does not matter who stopped traffic where, you NEVER stop ON the tracks at a crossing! And you never ENTER a RR crossing until you have a clear route all the way THROUGH the crossing.

 

That's not rocket science, it's just common sense...something that is in short supply these days.

I agree, a complete failure on the drivers part.  I drove a semi for many years, and most of that was running intermodal in Chicago.  I can tell you there are a ton of crossings at grade in the area and in the intermodal facilities themselves, and you never enter a crossing if you can not make it all the way a cross safely.

Merely being stopped at a crossing is a problem in itself as you may have to run through four or five gears before you clear it.

I Agree with You, Rich and the others about NEVER entering a crossing without enough room to completely CLEAR, the crossing. But, you are supposed to use a gear that WILL ALLOW YOU TO CROSS A CROSSING WITHOUT SHIFTING, it is in every training manual and class that you will find.

 

A typical tractor/trailer is up to 75' long, plus 15' from each rail(road markings, not actual required distance for no contact clearance) totals 105' HOW are you going through FOUR OR FIVE GEARS in just over 100'?

24 years/2,000,000+ miles experience moving freight from A to B, C, D etc.

Doug

 

I even wonder some times if drivers are even taught anything about RR crossing safety, or if they are, if it is only glossed over.  People behind the wheel can get a very false sense of security when they are moving slow or are stopped.  Situational awareness is called for 100% of the time when anywhere near RR tracks.

 

Andy

No matter how you care to paint it, the truck driver screwed up.  Assuming that the signals were operating properly (which seems to be the case based on early information), there's simply no reasonable excuse for him being where he wasn't supposed to be.

The National Transportation Safety Board was launching a team to the site to investigate the crash.

I'm going to wait for all the information to come out. I personally think the organizers of this parade have some serious questions to answer. A lot of States have a considerable amount of traffic laws that are exempt when it comes to sanctioned parades. It will be interesting to see just how the civil 60/40 comes out. As far as criminal...might be a stretch in some states, maybe not in others. You guys might be upset with me on this remark, but I don't know if the guy that was operating the truck was even a professional driver or not. All in all, it's a tragedy and I feel for all those involved.

Larry

The comments made here about not starting to cross a railroad crossing unless your exit is clear got me thinking (for a change).  Here in the NYC/Metro area there are many highway intersections marked as gridlock intersections.  Basically, you do not enter the grid unless you have a clear exit (you don't block the grid if the light turns red).  If you do block the grid you can get a traffic ticket.  So my question is this:  Can you get a traffic ticket blocking a railroad crossing?  If not, then maybe its time for this infraction to be added to the books.  Maybe then people will be more cognizant about railroad crossing safety.

 

Stuart

 

 This is not a CDL forum so I'll refrain from getting into a truck drivers ****ing match.

 

I was just trying to put a "drivers perspective" on it, ultimately one can't change what happened, my thoughts are with those injured and families of those lost. Its horrific to think those wounded veterans didn't even have the option to try and get off the truck. YES I KNOW THEY WERE DISABLED DOUG! THATS MY POINT!

I have had a CDL class "A" for many years. The driver was absolutely positively one hundred percent at fault. I would never,ever enter a grade grossing unless there was sufficient clearance for me to pull the rig all the way across. Don't pass go. Don't collect two hundred dollars. If this is not the case, you stop and wait. The driver deserves about twenty years breaking rocks and should never be allowed behind the wheel of a truck again.

The NTSB is reporting the grade crossing went active seven seconds before the float crossed the tracks.

 

 

http://news.yahoo.com/ntsb-sig...racks-232324364.html

 

Rusty

Here is an updated article.....

 

http://news.yahoo.com/official...gnals-001937014.html

Rich:

 

That really applies to all grade crossings, road-rail or road-road!

Before I retired, we had a town with a car show of maybe 2000 cars.  The info about the car show was entered into our bulletins.  We had to reduce our speed from 45 MPH to I believe to 10 MPH.  Never had a problem.  LOCOMOTION

Just to offer some insight, as I grew up in Midland. The track at this crossing and through town is very straight (constant 70mph speed). Some portions you could see the train 1-2 miles way. Knowing the crossing where this happened the driver would have seen the train had he looked. No doubt in my mind. There is no blind curve, no fences, just straight track. 

1. It does not matter whether the driver was a "professional" or not.
2. It does not matter whether he held a CDL or not.
3. It does not matter whether the grade crossing signals were working or not. (They were working fine.)

The bottom line is the driver screwed up - BIG TIME - by entering the crossing without a clear route to exit it. The "fault" lies squarely on his shoulders.

 

A quote from the most recent article about this tragedy:

"A parade float filled with wounded veterans that collided with a freight train had crossed onto the railroad tracks after warning signals were going off, investigators said Saturday."

 

Not only does the guy enter the crossing without a clear route to exit it, he does so AFTER THE FLASHERS HAVE STARTED and the GATES ARE COMING DOWN! And because of this idiot's inattentiveness or outright stupidity, several vets have died.

 

I'm sorry, but I don't need an NTSB "investigation" to tell me what happened here. If the guy was a pilot, we would say he had his "...head up and locked."

 

Yes, he certainly had his head up something...

NYC traffic won't kill you, they'll just honk a lot. When a train "honks" at you, it's a little different. If you live, you can get a ticket. But this guy could get jail.

 

Trains don't obey traffic laws, they obey Newton's laws! They can't stop for objects on the track.

I want to offer some ideas on technology that might help prevent these incidents. I'm not making apologies for drivers who probably screwed up by not being more observant, but in the real world conscientious engineers try to make things as fool-proof as possible.          

 

In some cases intersections are immediately adjacent to a railroad crossing, and traffic stopping at the intersection backs up over the tracks if drivers try to crowd through when they shouldn't. In some cases the crossings are higher than the roadway approaches so that views of drivers looking ahead are restricted by a 'hump' over the tracks.          

 

Most of us have noticed that signalled traffic intersections these days usually have multiple detection circuits that trigger the lights according to traffic in the different approach lanes.          

 

Many of us have also seen freeway merge lanes in major urban areas which use traffic signals to regulate the entrance of merging traffic into the freeway lanes during peak traffic hours. Sometimes they will say "one vehicle per green".

 

So I'm wondering if traffic detection circuits can be used to signal traffic before it enters the railroad crossing, according to the presence of other vehicles ahead and whether they are potentially backing up to prevent other approaching vehicles from clearing the crossing, also factoring in the timing of any traffic signals that may cause traffic to back up over the crossing.  

 

Traffic detection circuits have become quite commonplace; just take a look at the pavement around signalled intersections to see where slots were cut to put the wiring and detection loops into the pavement. Microprocessor circuits are used to keep traffic flowing as efficiently as possible.          

 

Just food for thought. Now please don't tell me all the reasons why it can't be done. I predict that it can and will be done to an increasing degree in the future.          

 

Of course, grade crossing separation is better yet, but not always practical or cost effective.

IT was reported in the paper today that the NTSB has determined the crossing signals were properly working at the time of the incident.