Used Bowser vs New Ross Turntable

Bowser turntables are junk  Ross is light years ahead of it 

Gotta' go with Ben on this one, if you can't swing the Millhouse, the Ross is pretty close.

If you are on a budget and got the Bowser for a song. Maybe. You still would benefit from at least an upgraded drive from either Ross or Millhouse. They run about 300. If moneys not an issue. Go for the Ross.

Millhouse number 1

ross number 2

bowser number 3 - but only if you do the Ross or Millhouse drive update other wise a much distant third place

i have a bowser on my layout that I did the Millhouse drive update to, works and looks ok but not as smooth as the Millhouse or Ross.

The Bowser is just fine , if you know what you are doing

@bluelinec4 posted:

Bowser turntables are junk  Ross is light years ahead of it

As one with a Bowser table, I agree with this statement.  It is junk,  wish Ross or Millhouse were out when I purchased.  Both Ross and millhouse make a upgrade drive system to improve the Bowser but I would just buy the better table if I don’t have one at the moment

Yup the bowser takes entry level modeling skills the other two some one has done that for you!

20 Years ago.   There was another turntable.  Diamond Scale, (a craftsman kit).  Noted design was a floating bridge, that used a very good pit rail/bogie support/turn system.  Pictured, my Diamond Scale TT.  The market, and consumer attitude, have changed, dramatically, in 20 years. Today: Out of the box, install in less than an hour, and function perfectly.

Boston Gear, 90 to 1, worm assembly was used as the drive system.  There was a small motor gear assembly that attached to the small worm drive shaft.  The upgrade to a 7/16" drive shaft, (Bowser had/has a 3/8" drive shaft) was part of the problem/improvement.  Unfortunately, if the Bowser bridge, would bind, for some reason, the 3/8" shaft would bend.

Opinion:  If the motor drive system is slow enough and the TT is positioned near the edge of the layout, track alignment can be done by sight.

IMO, In My Opinion.   Depends on how much time/money, you wish to spend on indexing. IMO.   My layout, I never saw the need for indexing.   Have fun with your project.  Mike CT.

Motor drive.

Bowser pit rail bogies were also part of the problem.  A better design was needed.  The diamond scale design also improved this part of the TT.

@Dave Koehler posted:

The Bowser is just fine , if you know what you are doing

I guess our entry level modeling skills are lacking because we don’t know what we are doing.  So tell me oh great model railroader.  What is good with the bowser.  Please start with indexing and motor

@0-Gauge CJ posted:

What are your thoughts on buying a used 32" Bowser turntable vs a new 33" Ross turntable? Does the Ross table have features (eg, Legacy control) that the Bowser does not?

I found a thread from awhile ago that had some mixed feelings about Bowser turntables but I cannot find it again.

CJ , we know budgets are an issue but also realize that turntables must run well or what’s the point of having one ( static display ) when I set out to build turntables and other items, it was to make an awesome product that functions great and also looks amazing and will last. That’s why we build them out of aluminum so that humidity changes don’t effect them like the bowsers were plagued with. We also went with  brass cast details so even if you accidentally bump into them they don’t snap off like plastic. Plus we offer road specific style arch and bridge details.  We do offer manual control turntables which can be upgraded later on if fully indexed table isn’t in your budget right now. We currently have a Free shipping sale on now which will save you anywhere from $140-175 depending on what area of the country you are in. Last point I will make is, turntables become a focal point of a layout whether you intend it to or not. We purchase tons of engines for our layouts and the cost of the turntable is similar to a scale big boy and is a one time investment. I tend to buy items that bring me enjoyment and hassle free. Have a great day. If you have questions you can email me or call our shop.

Millhouse is the Rolls-Royce, Ross is the Cadillac and Bowser is the Yugo.

I have been a Journeyman cabinetmaker for 44 years, I also have extensive millwright skills used in medical equipment installations.  I think my experience gives me the right to pass judgment.  

I got a Bowser 32inch in 1998 as that was all that was available.It is useless with the Weight of articulated engines on the table,I tolerate it,don't Waste your money.

I had a Bowser turntable, it was nothing but problems.

@Keith k posted:

Millhouse is the Rolls-Royce, Ross is the Cadillac and Bowser is the Yugo.

I have been a Journeyman cabinetmaker for 44 years, I also have extensive millwright skills used in medical equipment installations.  I think my experience gives me the right to pass judgment.  

Yeah, but this is the Internet!

my Bowser works fine after adding an antenna motor to power it and many other improvements to the design.

however, I too would go with the Ross one.

@Keith k posted:

Millhouse is the Rolls-Royce, Ross is the Cadillac and Bowser is the Yugo.

I have been a Journeyman cabinetmaker for 44 years, I also have extensive millwright skills used in medical equipment installations.  I think my experience gives me the right to pass judgment.  

Good analogy I like it lol.  All you need to know is Bowser no longer makes o scale turntables and for good reason

I have a Bowser also and I agree with the issues.  At some point, I would like to update my bogies and re-motor it.  I have the Ross upgrade, but as has been said, the shaft diameter is to small to not get bends.  Mine does work, I just get the turn bounces since I can't get the belt tension correct.

If worse comes to worse, I'll just make it manual as it is easy to turn.

On the same note, are there part numbers for the Boston Gear 90:1 setup?  I would think that would be better and I could enlarge the shaft.

Allan, I have both a Diamond Scale and a Millhouse. I did upgrade the Diamond Scale to a Millhouse drive. While the Diamond Scale was very well made in it’s day. There are some shortcomings. While the gears are of good quality and very robust. Like any gear setup like that. There is going to be a bit of play in the gears. The result of that is that after you line up the bridge with your track. It can wiggle a bit and throw the rails out of line. The motor that turns everything isn’t very robust. I think it’s the same setup as the HO version. There’s a lot more weight to move with a die cast O scale Loco. .

There was a layout builder that incorporated some sort of solenoid to keep the bridge in line on his custom one. Not sure of what he used for a drive. He use to display at York.

For what it's worth, I agree with ALL the negative comments concerning the Bowser turntable, especially the big 32" model. A few technical reasons why:

1) The main drive shaft diameter is WAY TOO SMALL for turning heavy articulated models.

2) The drive mover and design of the drive is very poorly designed, and simply is not reliable.

3) I up-graded my Bowser turntable with the Millhouse River "cog belt" designed drive system, by due to the grossly undersized main drive shaft, it still had problems turning the very heavy articulated models.

In conclusion, even if receiving for FREE,,,,,,,I would not have anything to do with a Bowser turntable! Yes, I had one, prior to Millhouse River and Ross bringing their products to market. It caused me headaches every time we turned a big articulated. Both the Millhouse River and Ross turntables have 1" diameter drive shafts, which makes a HUGE improvement when turning large/heavy models.

I did not expect a question about turntables to generate so much interest! Thank you all for your input! I think the near-unanimous consensus answers my question!

@Hot Water posted:

In conclusion, even if receiving for FREE,,,,,,,I would not have anything to do with a Bowser turntable! Yes, I had one, prior to Millhouse River and Ross bringing their products to market. It caused me headaches every time we turned a big articulated. Both the Millhouse River and Ross turntables have 1" diameter drive shafts, which makes a HUGE improvement when turning large/heavy models.

If all the other mentioned issues weren't enough, this problem with articulateds seals the deal for me. I am fond of the N&W and as such I have several articulateds. No turning articulateds = no deal!

@CSX Al posted:

CJ , we know budgets are an issue but also realize that turntables must run well or what’s the point of having one ( static display ) when I set out to build turntables and other items, it was to make an awesome product that functions great and also looks amazing and will last. That’s why we build them out of aluminum so that humidity changes don’t effect them like the bowsers were plagued with. We also went with  brass cast details so even if you accidentally bump into them they don’t snap off like plastic. Plus we offer road specific style arch and bridge details.  We do offer manual control turntables which can be upgraded later on if fully indexed table isn’t in your budget right now. We currently have a Free shipping sale on now which will save you anywhere from $140-175 depending on what area of the country you are in. Last point I will make is, turntables become a focal point of a layout whether you intend it to or not. We purchase tons of engines for our layouts and the cost of the turntable is similar to a scale big boy and is a one time investment. I tend to buy items that bring me enjoyment and hassle free. Have a great day. If you have questions you can email me or call our shop.

Thank you for taking the time to answer personally, Al. When budgeting for anything I hope to stretch every dollar as far as I can, but I also realize that I get what I pay for, and I risk ending up paying much more out of pocket chasing (and then fixing) the cheapest option vs paying more up-front and not having to worry about issues down the road. My thoughts were that, since many old engine models from Weaver, K-Line, etc, can have new life breathed into them with an ERR or PS2/PS3 upgrade added to them, perhaps a Bowser turntable just needs a little extra work and care to make it good-as-new like an engine upgrade. But, judging by everyone's answers, no such simple solution exists

As far as money goes, almost anything in the 3R world can be affordable on a long enough time horizon for saving. Setting money aside for a turntable is infinitely easier than saving for a BTO locomotive that hasn't been cataloged yet (at least for me, some are more natural savers!). I am still designing my layout so I am not in a hurry to purchase one, as tempting as free shipping is, but I saw a very cheap Bowser turntable come up on the used market, almost seemed like a crime to turn it down, so I thought I would ask here. Thank you again for offering your personal input, I learned a little more about Millhouse Turntables I did not know before

And thank you again to everyone else for offering your feedback! You have saved me from a regrettable purchase!

Anyone want a used 22" Yugo for nothing? Although after this thread, I can't even give it away. Does have an upgraded motor on it from a guy who displays in the Silver Hall at York. Have to be willing to come to Cape Cod to get it!

Great Question, Bowser is a no no no… I suggest a Millhouse 34 in, it’s the Cadillac of model railroad turntables, hands down. Talk to CSX Al, check out his demonstration as it’s smooth, Legacy controlled, affordable, it’ll las a lifetime…. Nuff Sayd…

Cj, no problem. I try to answer questions and not just before the purchase but after. I thought I would share a video one of my customers just posted on the O gauge Tips and tricks Facebook group.

https://www.facebook.com/group...nk/5419093821525416/

I bought a used Ross 33 from a forum member recently, and even after being removed from his layout, packed in a box, bounced around across the country on its way to me, it is basically perfect.

You can do a small O-scale layout, Roundhouse and TT.  5' X 7'.   IMO.  Picture above/previous post.   

I haven't seen the Millhouse TT in person. It certainly looks to be a fine piece of equipment. I have seen the Ross and it too is a beauty. For me it boils down to how much you want to spend on anyone aspect of your hobby and a 1500 dollar plus TT wasn't part of my plan.

About a decade or so back while accumulating supplies for my layout I came across a Bowser. My first impression wasn't so good. After looking at it for a while I figured with some upgrades it would work for me. I had some scrape angle iron, bronze bushing material and a 3x3 3/4" piece of plywood. Back when Bowser was still making O scale items I pickup a set of bogies with all the necessary extras (including bearings). I also added a ERR mini commander. I'm pretty happy with the way it turned out. I won't get into the fabrication process here as these pics explain what took place.

          "I'm pretty happy with the way it turned out."  - you know, that's all that counts!  Enjoy it.

@Bill Sherry posted:

          "I'm pretty happy with the way it turned out."  - you know, that's all that counts!  Enjoy it.

Bill, any photos of your TT area?

I’m also one of those that bought a Bowser TT many years ago, before Ross or Millhouse were (maybe) not even thought of, LOL! After adding upgraded boggies, and finally the Millhouse motor and belt drive, it works fine, operated using Lionel Legacy and a Lionel AMC (accessory motor controller) set to control the DC motor. It is a 22” model and is fine for all of my locomotives. For an AA or longer locomotive, I have a straight through track - of course cannot turn the long set around. If buying today, I also would buy a Ross or Millhouse product:

While not a turntable, I bought the Millhouse transfer table. Built to last and works like a charm! Great product!!!

@Cape Cod Northern posted:

Anyone want a used 22" Yugo for nothing?. Have to be willing to come to Cape Cod to get it!

No problem. Sounds great! I’ll plan on being there the first week of July. I assume it’s ok if I bring my wife and kids and we stay with you for the week? 😳🤪.

Pete, Can't wait. Your reservation is set. Just to let you know, your deposit is non refundable!

@Keith k posted:

Millhouse is the Rolls-Royce, Ross is the Cadillac and Bowser is the Yugo.

I have been a Journeyman cabinetmaker for 44 years, I also have extensive millwright skills used in medical equipment installations.  I think my experience gives me the right to pass judgment. 

@leapinlarry posted:

Great Question, Bowser is a no no no… I suggest a Millhouse 34 in, it’s the Cadillac of model railroad turntables, hands down. Talk to CSX Al, check out his demonstration as it’s smooth, Legacy controlled, affordable, it’ll las a lifetime…. Nuff Sayd…

Ok.  Let's get this straight.  Which one is it?

Is the Ross a Cadillac (as stated by @Keith k), or is it Millhouse (as stated by @leapinlarry)?

I have a Ross and completely happy with I, but I understand the support for Millhouse.  Very nicely built.

In spite of their differences, and taking pricing into consideration, in each case I think you get your money's worth.

Mike

Where does Atlas fit in this hierarchy of turntables ?

@Richie C. posted:

Where does Atlas fit in this hierarchy of turntables ?

Bottom end, and that's from a guy that has one.  However, they're cheap and really easy to install.   It's certainly a lazy man's turntable!

Wow gentlemen, this thread has really been interesting reading, Timing, ok, the Rolls Royce is the Millhouse TT., The Cadillac is the Ross TT.  both will do the job and make your Turntable area a Crowd Pleaser. When I built my layout, back in 1999-2000, the best turntable at that time was AAA, an aluminum base similar to the Millhouse, but made special upon order, Built to order, like Lionel trains. It was priced around $5K, depending on size and how one wanted it equipped. Expensive to say the least. Therefore the Bowser 32 inch table made sense for my budget, however, I can say it was not the quality of workmanship I preferred. So, I added new spring bogies, a solid steel 3/8 shaft, and made the Pitt-Rail out of Atlas O scale rail. We then coupled the Shaft to a PTC 3 stepper motor and indexing system. The Bowser base being wood is not the best, aluminum is the best, so, indexing is not always accurate, but it’s close.
The PTC Model 3, now it’s a model 4 will allow 99 tracks, head and tale end of the bridge. The heavy duty stepper motor allows really good indexing. So, one has approximately $350 in the Bowser turntable, $300 in the PTC indexing system, and approximately $100 in upgrade parts, and it’s still not a really reliable system. The price may be much more today.  So, $750 toward a Millhouse turntable would have been a great investment. They weren’t making these great products at that time…. So, it’s your money, choose what works for you and your layout.
As Gunrunner John says, the Atlas O turntable is very nice, easier to install, the only limitation I see is the size, which allows smaller engines. It can work nice if you arrange your track properly. It does function really good. Atlas makes great products.
Now, you can see how we fixed up the Bowser turntable on my layout, it’s not the best, but it works. Good luck and show us some pictures of your layout. This is a great hobby, everyone does it differently…. Happy Railroading Everyone

No sense comparing Cadillac models. Just get the BEST - Millhouse. Cadillac's have problems and you will need support. Millhouse support is unlike any support anywhere for any product. Above and beyond. Heck when I called and left a message Al got back to me right away and he was waiting in a line in Disney World. How's that for support? NO ONE OR COMPANY WILL GIVE SUPPORT LIKE THAT! But he does!!!!

OK, OK...so we know who the "Rolls Royce" and "Cadillac" dealers are.  No question here re their analogous ratings. 

Where are the fellow 'scrappers'??  The lemonade makers?  The old tech old pharts who could/can make their own improvements to the basic, the rudimentary, ...the affordable..., in order to achieve better performance/appearance.  And that hand-on-the-throttle feeling the guy in that little shack at the end of the turntable felt as he slowly, visually brought the rails into alignment?  (We do recall, don't we, that some prototypical turntables were so well-balanced and constructed that they were manually...engine/tender included...rotated into position/alignment...don't we?)

Lots of improvements can be made to lots of the old icons of the hobby to give them new, competitive life, and the owner more pride, satisfaction, ...and fun!

Maybe even a DIY article in OGR!?

Besides, this dumping of the old to favor the new is giving my wife bad ideas...cougar that she is!

KD

@Richie C. posted:

Where does Atlas fit in this hierarchy of turntables ?

I have 2.

The 1st was the original version. It was junk exclamation you attempted to drive an engine on or off of the turntable, the table would dip down. There was not enough support. And the drive belt, was constantly popping off the gears. Junk!

Atlas upgraded. I got the 2nd one. Much better support eliminating the issue of the table dipping down . They also improved the drive belt system. So that works much better.

You get what you pay for.

These turntables are not in the same universe as a millhouse or a Ross.

I have mine because they are in unsceniced  areas of the layout and they are strictly for utilitarian purposes.

With my DCS system it is much better to keep all of the engines on the track and I needed some where to store them.

If I was getting a turntable that was actually going to be seen for realism I would be getting the mill house or the Ross.