Vision Allegheny

I was for this but after seeing the past lionel price increases ..I am gonna have to pass.It will be 2500 for sure .. I gonna buy a MTH for half the price or a jLc one .

Well everybody knows the DM&IR Yellowstones were the locomotive with the most tractive effort making them the most powerful

 

I'm ready for a Lionel Vision Yellowstone.

They can keep their depleting coal load feature.

PJB wrote:

 In fact, the bigger more powerful steam locomotive.

 

 

I guess it depends on what parameters you are measuring, If my memory serves me correctly, the Allegheny was heavier, and rated higher horsepower, but the Big Boy was longer and bested the Allegheny by about 25,000# in tractive effort.

 

 by the numbers a Big Boy could start a heavier train than the Allegheny, but if you limited the contest to a train that the Allegheny COULD start, it would out accelerate that same train, in comparison with the Big Boy, but  with a heavier train, the Big Boy could accelerate the train that the Allegheny COULDN'T Start.

 

Gee, This has NEVER been discussed before.

 

Doug

 

 

I'm so tired of the same rehashed, over priced, locomotives. Visionline engines should be new, innovative, never before produced locomotive. I find it boring.

Ideally, you should have all three.  Each was designed to do something a bit different.  All were great locos.  You really need all three!

I do not know the Tractive Effort Each of the Monster Engines Have, but, I really like the Added Effects on the VisionLine Challenger, and the recent VisionLine Big Boy. The Whistle/Steam Effects, The Echo Effect, the Dynamo, the Blow Down, The Cylinder Steam Effect, Yes, The Depleting Coal, and of Course, Legacy Controlled. To some, the wheel slippage may be liked, to others, maybe not. In my way of thinking, Lionel could make this for less money as they have the moulds. All that's necessary is the Electronics.

Yes, This would be a nice Fun to Run Locomotive. Good Thread.

IF Lionel Chooses to do this, my only Major Suggestion, Go back to the system for the Blow Down that was used in the 0-8-8-0 Pensy Mogul, or the 2-10-10-2 Sante Fe 3000.

Those engines have a great Blow Down.

Happy Railroading......

Good point!  I love the steam effects and that's why my VL Challenger is still my fave.  Several steam features that are automatic - and realistic. To me, the more orifices emitting steam the better!  

 

Peter

I have all three and im sure theyre all right next to each other on the turntable

An Allegheny seems to make sense since they have not done one in a while. I would like for them to make a Legacy version at the very least, maybe in the upcoming Y6B detail and pricing range.

I won't be buying a Vision Allegheny or a Vision Yellowstone (which I doubt they will make) as I have JLC or Legacy versions of each, as I have the JLC Big Boy.  All three of mine are good enough locos that I can't justify upgrading to a Vision model.  

Did Lionel ever even make a DM&IR Yellowstone?  I thought only MTH and Sunset/3rd Rail made those models.

As I recall, Lionel took the B&O EM1 and painted them up DM&IR among some other roads. 

 

Rusty

This one, I think: 6-11374

 

http://www.lionel.com/Products...neID=&CatalogId=

OK, so the bottom line is; Lionel never produced a TRUE DM&IR Yellowstone.

Lionel did paint up the EM-1 in DM&IR but the paint color is weird, it's kinda of s beige or tan where the Yellowstones the DMIR had were a slate grey color and they were a bigger loco. Lionels RM-1 also doesn't have the centipede tender. Nice loco, I have one and I like it but it's not the same Yellowstone.

I would love a scale DM&IR Yellowstone - a BIG loco.  But I won't hold my breath waiting for Liuonel or MTH.  Maybe 3rd Rail . . . 

"I would love a scale DM&IR Yellowstone - a BIG loco."

 

I would also love to see this locomotive in a Vision Line product.

I saw 227 in Duluth, MN and it is very impressive. It's on static display but the drivers move every 20 minutes or so...I would also love to see a Vision Yellowstone.

Lee, MTH has already made a scale DMIR Yellowstone

I was told it was about 1/2 inch short, based on a slightly shorter loco.  Is that true?  If not I might try to find one.

 

I would buy a Vision Line Allegheny ONLY if the details on the loco and, particularly, the tender, were at least as good as the JLC version. It had the most detailed tender trucks I have ever seen on a die cast loco.

 

 

 

 

I honestly would like a VisionLine Milwaukee Road Hiawatha locomotive (4-6-4). Of coarse with all the great vision steam and sound features. I just don't want anything too big just yet.

I haven't heard the MTH Yellowstone is too short, I can measure it n see. It is 32 5/8 from pilot to tender step

MTH's model is 1:48 scale.

 

Lee - for my own edification:  a scale model that's +/- 1/2" off is perfectly fine with someone like me who just enjoys watching these rolling Swiss watches - your earlier post sounded a lot like you were saying no one had ever made a scale DMIR.  Your follow-up indicates that don't count the MTH version because it might have been off by 1/2".   Is it really that binary?  Or is it that you were just unaware of the MTH model?  Thanks for the response, as I'd like to know if 1/2" is really that big a deal to people that have obviously been doing this a lot longer than I. And if so, why. 

 

Peter

Peter, FYI the tender gap is greater than 1/2 an inch

Here's a direct comparison of model to full.  Decide for yourself if model is scale.  The full scale does have a non-prototypical red bonnet model if one looks closely.

 

I guess if you want a VL Allegheny it's a possibility because Lionel have the tooling for it (in the JLC version) as I believe they did for the Challenger and Big Boy.

 

Providing outlets in the body shell for whistle and dynamo or blowdown smoke in those was two models was achievable. As I don't know what would be required for four steam cylinder outlets I won't guess if they'd offer that but I for one would see it as game changer If they did.

 

I will say following Keith's lead in his post above that if Lionel offers either engine but in particular a DMIR Yellowstone I would not be bothered if they left out the coal load feature in favor of more smoke.

That's the best video I have seen in a long time apart from some from Alex M. repairing an engine of mine.

 

But the comparison would be better if it had been a VL Challenger rather than an MTH model!

My point is that since I have the Lionel EM-1 "Yellowstone," and it is big and good looking loco, the bar is set high for any other Yellowstone I buy: the only way I would part with a couple of grand for a Vision or any other Yellowstone is if it is noticeably larger and more powerful looking than my Lionel EM-1 version.  

 

I understand the DM&IR M-3s and M-4s were noticeable larger - about 16% heavier much more powerful, than the EM-1s.  I have seen only one MTH Yellowstone model, and there was not a Lionel EM-1 nearby to compare it to - but then I see one every day.   The MTH did not look that much bigger.  Maybe it is, but I would want to really make sure before dumping a lot of money and reserving three feet of prime shelf space on another 2-8-8-2 

Well Lee,  I have them next to each other and IMHO the DM&IR looks much better. It is all around a more impressive and pretty locomotive. If I had to choose between the 2 i would pick the MTH DM&IR Yellowstone every time. The Allegheny is a very impressive loco but its not the Yellowstone

uh yeah, well even if that were true, keeping it most real - so what ??  The prototype's real life "tractive power" is kind of totally irrelevant when it comes to scale models.  

 

Peter

I was looking at my "big four articulated locos" this morning (Big Boy, Allegheny, EM-1, Challenger) on the display shelves in my trainroom.  The EM-1 really is a smaller loco than the Big Boy and Allegheny - it is big, but not BIG - not as impressive, even if it is as big to the eye (or at least as long) as the Challenger.  I really need to find one of the DM&IR Yellowstones to look at, preferably around a Big Boy or EM-1.  I have a friend who seems to have one of ever big scale model locomotive ever made.  I think I will ask him.

 

When did MTH produce its last model M3 or M4 Yellowstone?  Are they due to produce it again, soon, do you think?

uh yeah, well even if that were true

How is in not true, its a documented fact that the DM&IR Yelowstones had more tractive effort than the Alleghenys about 30,000 pounds more, and since the rating of power for a steam locomotive is by tractive effort that means the Yellowstones are more powerful.

Won't ague that fact, but I would argue the Northern Pacific Z-5 Yellowstone with the world's largest fire box at the time had the most traction effort of all the 2-8-8-4 Yellowstone classes.

 

But remember these locomotives where built in the 20's, the Allegheny was a later more efficient designed engine... its like apples to oranges

 

 

This was the world's largest locomotive at one time...

 

 

DMIR M3's and M4's were built in the forties but those NP locos are very impressive indeed. They are all impressive locos, the Allegheny with is huge firebox, must have been some serious work to feed that dragon and the NP and DM&IR Yellowstones with their big beefy boilers. I bet it was amazing to see any of these giants hauling huge trains of ore or coal in their day

       
       


Seriously?  You don't understand the point of my post -  they the tractive effort of the prototype is an absolutely irrelevant detail when it comes to wanting an O scale model with impressive size-related stature?

"If that were true" - meaning, I'm not arguing the point. I don't care. It's irrelevant.