Vision Line BigBoy MSRP $2700 ?

I just confirmed mine

It's on Nicholas Smith's email list.  No longer speculation.

 

The street price is better than I thought it would be.

 

4014

Yes all 7 of them are listed on their web site.

Our price is also 1999.99 but with only a 200.00 deposit. Everyone who is on our mailing list will get a e-mail and it will be live to order today or tomorrow. Lionel just e-mailed us the price to me about 2:30 PCT. Thanks Charlie...

 

Check our web site for a link and update

Yes, it was announced this afternoon.

Charlie Nassau ... did they firm up any delivery information?

 

Jim Ledet

Wow, that is getting steep... maybe I will just wait for the older version to go up for bid on the bay....

Those E-Bay $2500 Legacy Big Boys just went down in value 

Alan,

My bad guys, missed this somehow!  Not sure how, I spent all day on OGR at work!  

Your right, they are 2,000.00 or best offer...

See, already dropping   

 

I watch out for you boys!! HAHAHA

Hello Charlie, where is the option to order a specific cab number on your site?

 

 

 

Uh-oh; I just read the description, temptation is looming!

Note to self: Buy extra smoke fluid........

 

Rod

Daylight you can select which one you want by selecting which cab number you want from the drop down for cab number. I just ordered 4014 from nassau great price and i only have to leave 200 dollars right now and just heard delievery is for december .

That seems the hobby shops claiming a tiny mark-up are blowing smoke. If Lionel cost is 80% of list this store will lose money on each one.

Even at this price the boss would never allow one.

This is Charlies list in the drop down, just for info.

UP 4004 – Cheyenne, WY
UP 4005 – Denver, CO
UP 4006 – St. Louis, MO
UP 4012 – Scranton, PA
UP 4014 – Pomona, CA – Cheyenne, WY
UP 4017 – Green Bay, WI
UP 4018 – Frisco, TX

 

I'm glad it's lower price for you guys. Maybe I can fit a Legacy Big Boys in the budget some where down the road.

"If Lionel cost is 80% of list this store will lose money on each one."

 

So we can assume that at least for some stores, the cost from Lionel is no more than 60-70% of MSRP (a 30-40% discount), which was not an atypical margin in the past for many items. For the last decade or more, the discount off MSRP has been much less (more like 20-25% than 30-40%) on high-end locomotives and some other items, according to my local dealer.  So this is a significant change, to say the least, for both dealers and consumers.

well I bit the bullet and ordered the BB#4005 from Charlie.

 

should we sell tickets to see if we see this in 2014 pun intended LOL.

 

I was surprised no mention of track size not included in description as newcomers might get blind sided.

 

Lansteiner  maybe the cost break is due to lagging economy? so wonder if some wait until after the pre-orders are all closed what the asking price will be hmmmmm.

 

 

$oo

 

 

 

"Landsteiner  maybe the cost break is due to lagging economy?"

 

Could be, I suppose.  However, I think something else is at work here, and it's probably several factors.  I'm just guessing, based upon what one hears through the media and the grapevine.  It's possible they've found a slightly more efficient, lower cost manufacturer over in Korea or China for much of their product line.  Shipping costs may have moderated. Their own overhead may have decreased with their consolidation and joining up with another medium size company.  They may have raised MSRPs enough over the last few years to give them some more breathing room for their own margins. Set sales may have been so good (volume) recently that they're in particularly good shape financially and want to solidify their place in the market. Add your own theories .  Whatever the reasons, this is good for the dealers and consumers, and one has to assume that Lionel is doing this for their own benefit as well.

Charlie,

 

Under the pricing (Our price: $1,999.99; Market price: $2,699.99)

your website shows: Quantity (1000 available).

 

Does this mean that Lionel intends to make 1,000 Big Boys?

 

Thx!

 

Alex

 

They already said they'll make as many as ordered.  I'm sure 1000 is just a random number.

Of course the real question's now gonna be, what will the shipping charges be? 

 

If the BB comes in that big wooden box Lionel had at York, I don't think the dealers are going to absorb the shipping.

 

Rusty

Where are you going to run it, I thought you didn't have O72 anymore?  Does this mean some Saturday get togethers to lay some new track? Or did the boss order you to get it? 

 

I'll be talking to my boss tonight about getting one.  Since it is less than I was expecting, I'll be getting a Legacy set too.  You were right, it is a rabbit hole.

 

 

There was the thread a few weeks ago: "A lot of people aren't going to like this" (didn't search for it, not sure it survived or not).

 

This thread admitted/announced that the discount structure recently changed.  The Big Boy is also apparently under that new pricing structure.

 

-Dave

For me, shipping charges will be less than state sales tax....so I'll be having mine delivered. 

 

"Landsteiner maybe the cost break is due to lagging economy?"

 

I can't see this being a reason for Lionel.  The MSRP was $2700, the 'break' is coming from dealers.  And, I am sure they have some influence on it also.  Than again who knows.  Like others, relieved it is finally announced.

 

There is one thing I do know:  We know how much this thing costs!  Finally!

 

 

 

Is it made in China ? even at that price, if so Lionel are having a giraffe !

 

However very nice model

Well, we know what it's gonna cost the CONSUMER.  What I'd REALLY love to know is how much dealers are paying for this monster.

 

For years, all we've heard from dealers is how slim the margins are for the high-end products -- which I never really believed.  Heck, I had a big west coast dealer in Washington State insult me with the statement that he couldn't make a profit selling MTH steamers at MSRP.    And that conversation lasted mere seconds after he shot his credibility with that gibberish. 

 

So now here we have a $2700 MSRP product, with a few "early bird" dealers establishing a selling price of $2K... which would seem to imply there's a fair amount of $$$ being left on the table -- probably due to lagging sales in an otherwise lack-luster economy.

 

One thing's for sure...  Before toy train enthusiasts get to hold one of these monsters, it goes from a Chinese factory... to Lionel's warehouse in North Carolina.  In some cases, it then goes directly to a large dealer, and in other cases it goes to a distributor before ultimately arriving at smaller LHS's.

 

Nobody's losing money in that supply chain either.  So you just gotta wonder what it REALLY costs to make these gems -- not to mention all the mark-ups along the way.  But oh yeah, if we believe everything we're told, margins are very slim on this stuff.  

Well, then I only have one more question... Who's leaving all the money on the table for a $2700 MSRP?    I doubt it's Lionel, and I doubt it's the Chinese factory.  We've known for years that MSRP is a meaningless number, and now we know that margins on this stuff were never as slim as we were led to believe either -- especially for sellers holding tight to MSRP.  Gotta love how the truth always come out in the wash -- eventually. 

 

BTW, I have no problem if a dealer wants to sell at or close to MSRP.  But I DO have a problem when he or she insults buyers by telling them they can't make a profit by selling at MSRP.

 

David

A dealer's ability to make a profit depends a lot on the dealer's overhead, not only the cost of the product. And every dealer is different.

Well, yea... of course that's a given.  But by that stage of the game (i.e., when a dealer needs to sell above MSRP all the time to "make a profit"), that becomes his/her problem -- not the consumers.  And I just as soon not hear about it by the dealer whining to me on the phone.  Why should consumers subsidize the dealer's lack of business acumen?

 

End of rant... and now back to your regularly scheduled programming! 

 

David

"But oh yeah, if we believe everything we're told, margins are very slim on this stuff."

 

In recent years I've seen the documentation provided dealers for ordering products from the two major firms.  High end locomotives had a discount from MSRP to the dealer for one company of 20% and the other at 25%.  Thus, unless someone was a very skilled forger and my dealer wanted to snow me, we have been told the truth for these high end products. Margins were between slim and none after considering other costs and overhead, even including any unseen manufacturer rebates.

 

Apparently, the dealer margins on Lionel products, including this one, are being increased in many instances, unless you think Charlie is making this stuff up. I'm inclined to think he's giving us the straight scoop.  It's not in his best interest to deceive us.   Lionel is increasing dealer margins and effectively making their products more affordable in many cases.  That's good news as far as I'm concerned.

Lionel's premium steam locomotives over the last decade + have traditionally been made in Korea.  Ditto for MTH.

Not sure what the fascination is with pricing.  If you like it and have the money, buy it.  Otherwise, why worry about what Lionel or the dealer is making?  It's not my concern.  What would be, and is, more my concern is whether the thing will work correctly or whether it will be a shelf queen that spends a lot of time in transit to and from my home to the Lionel service center.  Given the complexity of these things, pretty soon they will find a new profit stream -- extended warranties. 

Well said.  The dealers have to make dough too, or what's the point.  Fwiw, Pats Trains sent me 2 emails, saying they are selling this for $1949 with a $100 deposit.  I don't know how they got my email, maybe I bought an old tmcc geep from them for $150 a while ago.

The old saying about "pay no attention to the man behind the curtain" applies to MSLP and trains.

Did Lionel ever say why the Omaha Big Boy 4023 is not on the list?

No, they never did, but suspect it is because the real 4023 is from the second order of 4000 class locomotives for UP from ALCO (road numbers 4020 thru 4024). Even though the first twenty 4000s were "up-graded" to LOOK like the second order, maybe Lionel really didn't what to take that chance?

 

I will have to see what I can do with a 072 loop on current layout or........ the sidewalls and or ceiling is an option hence any wide radius will fit then again I just might run it on the straight sections I have.

 

and nope the boss hasn't any idea I ordered it but am sure she will not complain she so loves steam engines! case in point if an engine needs repaired first question steam or diesel if the latter then no big deal if a steam engine the words are well why did you break my engine!! we laugh it is all good.

 

while typing this a table appeared in my head anchored to both sidewalls must get busy on rr track 4.0 software see what the biggest curve I can squeeze into a 9' wide table.

 

see ya.

 

$oo