VL Big Boy 6-11436

I would say those wires are the pick-up and ground from the front engine.

Really? Lionel sent you back your VLBB like this?  This  "repaired" locomotive needs to go back to Lionel, with a call to Mike R... 

Mine goes through the corners smoothly on O72 Fastrack.  You appear to be snake-bit with this engine!

Come on now. That's absurd. Contact Mike R. Let us know the result.

Rod Miller

How many times is this?  You need to contact Lionel again unfortunately. Don't try to fix it yourself unless you want to pay for a possible repair later. They should pick up shipping both ways. I agree with many above that this is unacceptable. I can't fathom how this got past the repair break in period. 

Maybe they didn't look at that side of the locomotive?

Are you sure it is the loco you sent them and not one sent in for repair ??  Do they have a serial number ?? Are these things covered by the "lemon law" ???

There is a serial # on the VL-BB

If Lionel sent it back to you that way - go right back to them and advise the result of the repair they will fix it properly - don't touch it - get / request the RMA and include the picture. They will handle it.  Talktous@Lionel.com. Reference the previous repair.

Picture is worth a thousand words.

romiller49 posted:

Come on now. That's absurd. Contact Mike R. Let us know the result.

Rod Miller

I had sent a email to above person nary a response that was 2 months ago nuff said.

Chuck Sartor posted:

I would say those wires are the pick-up and ground from the front engine.

If they are power wires why clean cut? Ironically chuck the black wire only was there upon 3rd return from them the wire with red stripe is from the 4th return! 

gunrunnerjohn posted:

Mine goes through the corners smoothly on O72 Fastrack.  You appear to be snake-bit with this engine!

GunrunnerJohn, do you know of anything that would create this issue on my big boy?

J Daddy and ROMILLER49

yes returned the 3rd time with only the black wire hanging this last time be the 4 th return now has a red stripped wire Clean cut. and the issue with the erratic swing back after  negotiating a curve.

gunrunnerjohn posted:

Maybe they didn't look at that side of the locomotive?

GunruunerJohn, I included a note stating the black wire was hanging out from under the boiler at front driver set how more explicit can one be? and where did the red wire come from? Wasn't there when I returned it the 3rd time.

I believe your correct in this engine must be snake bitten! that or like cars it was built on a monday!!

How is it you ended up with 2 vl big boys loaded with problems?

Your other thread, i.e. the 11449 bb was sent back 3 times too.

I can't remember if Lionel ever offered you a refund on either, but I would have jumped at the chance.

At this point it might be better to get in touch with Marty F. or Alex M. and let them have a go at it.

 Otherwise, theres no way any vl product is worth this much aggrivation.

If you "must have"  a big boy, maybe an older Lionel or an MTH model would be a better option.

So it was returned for the black wire hanging out and they returned it with the black and stripped wire out?  

Mike is no longer heading up customer service. I would contact Dean Brasseur. He is in charge of customer service. 

PSU1980 posted:

If Lionel sent it back to you that way - go right back to them and advise the result of the repair they will fix it properly - don't touch it - get / request the RMA and include the picture. They will handle it.  Talktous@Lionel.com. Reference the previous repair.

Picture is worth a thousand words.

after 4 times I do believe I'll wait until after January 1st 2017 and send to a 3rd party repairman for any further repairs.

Chuck may be correct.   To confirm this, do the following.  Set your meter to continuity and touch the red wire with one probe and the rear roller with the other.  If you have continuity, roller wire confirmed.  Do the same with the black wire.  Touch the wire with one probe and any ground with the other. 

I have worked on many of these VL Big Boys and they are very simple to deal with.  

FWIW, Mike Reagan has not been in charge of repairs for a very long time.  He has moved up in management as he should with his expertise.  Dean Brasseur has been in charge of the repairs for a long time.

Nothing personal against Dean. I've had good dealings with his store but customer service was never as good as it was when Mike was at the helm.

Having said that, even though Mikes in charge of production items are still showing up with regular errors and/ or omissions from the descriptions. Go figure.

StPaul posted:

romiller49 posted:

Come on now. That's absurd. Contact Mike R. Let us know the result.

Rod Miller

I had sent a email to above person nary a response that was 2 months ago nuff said.

It is posted after this post that Mike R. is no longer in the repair dept. FWIW, I had a similar, but even LOOONGER experience with Mike, when he WAS in Customer (NON)Service.

Doug

Marty Fitzhenry posted:

FWIW, Mike Reagan has not been in charge of repairs for a very long time.  He has moved up in management as he should with his expertise.  Dean Brasseur has been in charge of the repairs for a long time.

 

So what?  MR's email address still works and he could have had the courtesy of replying to this poor guy with the VLBB problems and in that same note copying the guy who should be on top of the issue.  This is like my "second tier" restaurant pet peeve.  I need something and the assigned wait-person is nowhere to be seen, so I ask another wait-person whose only reply is "sorry, I'm not your wait-person."  Newsflash - I didn't come to the restaurant for the wait-person.  The overall experience is what dictates whether I want to return.  

And, FWIW, I had an experience with the Lionel guy in charge of customer service almost 2 years ago.  He was looking into a situation and voluntarily promised to get back to me soon ... Still waiting. 

RickO posted:

How is it you ended up with 2 vl big boys loaded with problems?

Your other thread, i.e. the 11449 bb was sent back 3 times too.

I can't remember if Lionel ever offered you a refund on either, but I would have jumped at the chance.

At this point it might be better to get in touch with Marty F. or Alex M. and let them have a go at it.

 Otherwise, theres no way any vl product is worth this much aggrivation.

If you "must have"  a big boy, maybe an older Lionel or an MTH model would be a better option.

 

My apologies I incorrectly used the item # in the other post this is same engine from that post item 6-11436 I should go and correct the other posts item #. 

Ironically I sold a mth imperial big boy 4 months prior to pre ordering this one. unfortunately if I do send to Marty F or Alex and something goes awry electronic wise then Lionel will do as before and say it's been tampered with frankly all Lionel service stations should be able to fix all warranty repairs VL or whatever.

Marty F I will do the wire check with meter and post findings sometime Monday.

thanks again all but now you know why I nic named it Bad Boy! On a good note at least the engine responds to all cab-2 commands and headlight is working and the RCMC board is still happy so gained 3 but lost 3 so a break even deal.

far as I know still no parts diagram online at Lionel? as at least I could see all the parts that allow the front driver's to pivot the boiler assembly and see what might be missing or the cause of this. 

it seems like another screw and spring holds truck assembly from within the BB I wonder if it's loosened up and allowing more up and down travel? 

Marty Fitzhenry posted:

I am a certified Lionel repair tech.  I work on VL locomotives.   I do not tamper with them.    I have total confidence in the Lionel service center.  I have seen the situation with your wires before.  

Here is what I feel you might have going on.  The front truck assembly hooks to the locomotive by a large screw on the rear of the truck.  The truck has an arm on top of it with a spring and washer that goes into a slot that is mounted on the locomotive shell.  The top of the arm is bent at 90 degrees to keep the spring and washer in place.   This assembly swings in a slot as the front truck goes into a curve.  If the locomotive is taken out of it's box and the front truck not supported by hand and allowed to hang down, the spring and washer might pull out and drop the driver assembly tearing the wires from the truck like you show in your photo.  I have seen this and the fix is simple. 

I do not lift large engines out of the box as damage can happen.  I like to lay the box face down and lift the box off the engine.

When your engine seems jerky going into curves it is because the spring/guide mechanism is not in place and the driveshaft may be binding.  You will see this on curves and not straight track.

this is good information on handling our locomotives.

What ever happened to Phil in customer service?

jim pastorius posted:

Better be careful or this thread will be DELETED !!!  

Why?  The thread seems civil and informative so far.

Chuck Sartor posted:

What ever happened to Phil in customer service?

Phil no longer works at Lionel.

Marty, was there a falling out between Lionel and Phil? I didn't know he wasn't there anymore. How long has he been gone? I know Dean has been in charge for a while now.

Chuck Sartor posted:

Marty, was there a falling out between Lionel and Phil? I didn't know he wasn't there anymore. How long has he been gone? I know Dean has been in charge for a while now.

I don't know th details, just that Phil is no longer with them. 

RickO  I have corrected other post now has correct item number

Marty Fitzhenry  thanks for the information on removing engine from the box! also I will see if the spring assembly you mention is detached.

as to the wires I powered the track up but not the Bad Boy here are the readings touching meter probe to track common and other probe to black wire with red stripe and the plain black wire 

black wire with red stripe is 18.18 volts  black wire is 0.010 volts

engine powered up readings are black wire with red stripe is 17.03 volts so will assume that is a power truck wire?

black wire is 0.110 volts haven't a clue as to what that wire is for!

I reread your post so set meter so when probes touched they made an audible sound so then I setup alligator clips to black/red stripe wire and connected to front roller assembly then attached another alligator clip to red striped wire supplying hot power touch both sets of blind drivers to negative probe and heard the meter sound off I did this with the rear driver as well same results.

the black wire is another story I did connect it same as the other wire but no sound from meter and a whisp of smoke from middle of boiler so stopped power! I have no idea why it smoked but all lights are working and engine still powers up. main smoke whistle smoke and blowdown smoke is working can turn headlight on/off also the 4 small lights on side of boiler cab light works can turn clarification lights on/off as well as the rear tender lights so other than running around layout all appears to be okay after the black wire smoke episode!

so guess to see if all power rollers are working best way I know is to lay engine on its side and use alligator clips and see if engine powers up from each of them. okay rear set of engine power rollers both are working  and engine powers up, but both power rollers on front set of drivers are dead no power at all no power up of engine! 

so next question if the front drivers are not powered could this be why the boiler is acting erratic when maneuvering out of a curve to a straight track?

also I was able to see the bolt spring is still connected into the boiler and the driver assembly will not pull away from it and I see what I believe to be the driveshaft or? that supplies power to the front set of divers from the main motor all appears to be connected.

if any of this unclear just ask me to clarify a bit or a whole lot more and i will do so.

okay folks I have identified the issue there appears to be a large plastic tube with a long spring attached to it and it pivots some but it seems the simulated steam tubing has to ride up and over it and this is whats causing the boiler to jerk  when returning to its normal position after a curve.

so our forum techs whats the cure as it should or so I would assume the steam tube piping that pivots above it should pivot over that large tube in middle of boiler? or is the large tube supposed to move over farther allowing the steam piping to pivot over further?

also drivers both front and rear the rear set of flanged drivers want to ride up and over the outer rail on a curve this never was an issue before am using same 072 curves that i installed prior to december 2015 and all worked fine until now!

any help appreciated

STPaul, I'll say it again. This is absurd. You paid way too much money for this aggravation. Send the engine to a certified repair person for an examination. They have plenty of pull with Lionel and may be able to get it fixed correctly or get your money back. 

Rod Miller

MartyFitz - thanks for the detailed post on how to handle these large locomotives. I think conventional wisdom (and fear of hurting such a pricey item) has me holding the front and rear trucks - but now I know I should. I like the method you've laid out for removing locomotives from the container box. 

I also agree with Rod Miller - I'd send it back or have a certified service person advocate for me. 

Peter

Lionel does NOT allow their authorized service stations to work on vision line or lion chief products. PERIOD.  Have a good friend here in Freehold, NJ who is an authorized service station who does excellent repairs and restoration work. He cannot get parts for either if he needed them. Lionel will not sell or swap parts or boards on these items.

Call Lionel for that big boy repair. Since it will be a 4th trip back to them, you should ask for a refund. This is not worth the BS on an $2000 engine!

I agree with Ted. Either way you go, refund or repair, it should be handled by Lionel.  It stinks that you've had this much agrivation for sure but Ted is right. 

A couple of items, I had an issue with my Conrail Heritage Legacy SD70 - like 4 times. Lionel did buy it back but I could not find another one. The issues were electronic. 

Ted is correct,  Lionel doesn't always allow for dealers to repair these units - unfortunately it needs to go back. Yes, there are some folks, Marty F. and Alex M. that maybe able to work on it.

As I mentioned above, send Lionel an email with your request. 

K

Ted, I work on Vision line and Lion Chief products.   Your information is not correct.  I have been to the Lionel school and average 400 locomotives worked on each year.    I do not look for any work from the forum.  Let the guys who advertise get that work.  I do all the Legacy, Vision, and Lion Chief plus for Charles Ro.  Charles Ro sells a few trains each year.

I am constantly approached by email to do work and I usually refuse.   Sometimes I feel bad refusing but try to stay with the Charles Ro repairs.  I also see repairs on MTH, Weaver, williams, and many others.  I have seen a big decrease in Lionel board issues with the appearance of the RCMC boards.  I am a big fan.  

Ted, remember "Go Pats"

StPaul, I have seen that with a few locomotives.  The pipe is a simulated steam transfer pipe.  I find the springs to be a bit on the saggy side.  I cut a few coils off the spring and cover the spring with heat shrink tubing.  A loose fit with the heat shrink is desired.

Marty Fitzhenry posted:

StPaul, I have seen that with a few locomotives.  The pipe is a simulated steam transfer pipe.  I find the springs to be a bit on the saggy side.  I cut a few coils off the spring and cover the spring with heat shrink tubing.  A loose fit with the heat shrink is desired.

doesn't help when one kinda sorta stretches them also! a long day will try your cut a few coils off and use the shrink tubing idea. I also notice there is a stop made for that steam tube and the spring seems to want to hang on it when boiler is at far left position on my 072 curves. I think a shorter spring and possibly putting the inner eyelet on top of that steam tube might have cured the spring hanging on that metal stop.

both wires are attached to front power roller and the ground wire I soldered the wires to the existing eyelet connectors so front truck gets track power and common ground again.

I think most forum members are confused as once warranty is up on VL or anything else we are free to use 3rd party lionel authorized repair stations or anyone else we feel are capable of doing needed repairs. these engines are 3 months and some days away from that and maybe lionel will finally load an exploded diagram of the entire engine and parts so we can use as a reference as to what is supposed to be used and where.

I also cured the boiler from not turning smoothly when transitioning from a curve to a straight track and it was that steam tube I tightened the screw that holds it to the frame and poof issue went away amazing.

as to the heat shrink I assume by a loose fit meaning the heat shrink should not be snug so it and spring can move as needed separately from each other and that it only acts so as spring cannot catch on anything do I understand you correctly?