VL Hudson Acting Up - Problem Solved

I did not want to hear that, I am expecting my VL Hudson today. About 4 months ago my Legacy 6-11224 Lindbergh Special did the exact same thing you are discribing, so I returned it to Lionel, they repaired it and returned it to me only to have it start the same thing the day it was returned,after calling and telling Lionel this would be the third time returning this engine (one time before for lack of smoke) they offered me a refund, which I accepted and purchased a new one. Knock on wood so far so good with this one. So... GOOD LUCK.

Hi DILLION,

  Try to reprogram the engine as told on page 26 of owners manual.

1. Slide the program run switch to the PGM position.
2. Plug in and connect your LEGACY Base.
3. Place your locomotive on the track, then power up the track. Reprogram only one unit at a time.
4. Press ENG and enter the locomotive’s ID#.
5. Press SET.
6. Turn off track power and wait ten seconds.
7. Slide the program run switch back to the RUN position

Hope this solves your problem  Mine still is running great.

Laz1957, I tried the re-programing route but that had no effect.  It's really kind of weird. Everything seems to work and respond as it should at idle but once underway, the engine acts like it has a mind of its own.  Glad to hear that yours is running great.  I love the engine.  It is fantastic and mine was running great too and then out of the blue it started acting up.  I suppose a call into customer service is in order.

What's the track voltage?

At the track, about 17 to 18 volts from a PW ZW.  That hasn't been an issue in the past.

Dillon: Maybe this will help, When I returned my Legacy 6-11224 for the same problem, The repair report said Quote: Replaced the Railsounds Power Board and fixed the antenna wires. Again , Good Luck

Dillion, I had the same problem with my VL Hudson. Again, I had to send to the factory and after 2 months I had to do the same thing again after the first repair.  I still have not gotten it back. This has been very disappointing.

Yeah, this isn't sounding good.  I just went back down stairs, increased the track voltage and replaced the batteries in the Cab 2 but the problem is still there.  Funny, I had the engine go in reverse around the loop and no problem but forward, the problem shows up.

Strange.

"At the track, about 17 to 18 volts from a PW ZW.  That hasn't been an issue in the past."

I had a similar problem. It could be you somehow frazzled a board that now requires replacement. Do you have quick response electronic circuit protectors for the PW ZW installed?

You have to remember, even when your engine is not running on a powered loop it still gets full power.

If you had a short (derail) even with the engine powered down,  it's still possible for it to get frazzled or fried no different then if it was running...

For that reason, I never keep engines parked on powered loops.

The good news, its still under warranty..

Joe 

Yes, I've got Scott's OddsNs TVS and fuses on all power loops.  Plus, I don't remember a derailment.  The problem has progressively gotten worse over the past few days.  It started with the tender coupler opening a couple of times and of course I thought I accidentally hit the uncouple key.  Then I started to notice that the back up light came on and off at random.  Now the whistle and sound changes.  Yeah the good news is it still under warranty.  I'm assuming Lionel will want it shipped back in its original box.  I have the box but threw away the outer cardboard box. What a pain!

I have a Century Club ESE which had the same type of behavior, random sounds, coupler opening. Took quite a while to figure out what was wrong. Turned out to be the wire going to the IR tether had the insulation worn off in a tiny spot that rubbed one of the wheels on the trailing truck.

Dillon

My Legacy FEF-3 hand the same symptomS (ran in reverse not forward). Lionel sent me a replacement motor board and it has run well since.

How close do you live to a military base ?   148th

You mean this?  http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fa8IRxAW7OM&feature=related

The backup light and the rear coupler  raises a flag to me.  Both work off the Railsounds Audio board in your locomotive.  Your volume pot and speaker also hook to the audio board.  As the guys stated it sounds like the railsounds power board, if that tests out, it will be your audio board.  The audio board on that locomotive supplies ground to both the rear coupler and backup light.  If you have another Railsounds power board handy, plug it in and see if you are ok.   I would agree with the guys on the power board.  I run into bad power boards often.

With a two year warranty on Vision line engines with free shipping, are you sure you want to open anything up?   Doesn't opening a Vision line engine up void the warranty?

I would call Lionel and get a return authorization and call tag.  Most people have been getting their Vision Line engines returned in less that two weeks.

Good luck and happy railroading,

Don

Now if only Lionel would supply Vision Line Owners with a loaner when their engine is in the shop for repair. That would be a true vision.

I agree.  I'm not going to open anything up unless instructed by Lionel.  However, today I'm going to examine the engine closely to see if I notice any wires that are frayed.  Maybe I'll get lucky like Ed H did with his ESE and find a shorting issue.  I'll report later if I find anything.  Thanks guys for all your suggestions and comments.  Sometimes it helps just to know that you aren't the only one with a particular engine problem.

I found the problem, thanks to Ed H.  This morning I decided to do a little more testing and found out that clockwise around the loop, no problem.  Counterclockwise, problems. That's a hint folks!  I first looked at the tender since it was easier and could not find an issue.  Then I looked at the engine and just as Ed describes above, the wires from the IR tether were rubbing up against one of the wheels on the trailing truck.  I couldn't see any bare spots but I could see that the insulation had been worn down.  Now, try and get some electrical tape in that tight spot. Very difficult but I finally managed at least a temporary fix.  I need littler fingers.  The wires were off to one side of the drawbar so that it was very easy to come in contact with a wheel and over time, it wore through the insulation.  I tried to tape the wires to the drawbar so as to keep them from coming in contact with the wheels.  Back on the track, all is well and the Hudson is back running in tip top condition.  Hudson owners, be on the look out for this problem.  It is definitely a wear through over time issue.  Thanks again to all who commented.

Hi Guys,

I lieu of trying to use electrical tape in that tight area, mask off the surrounding area and use LIQUID electrical tape to coat that area .  They sell it in small bottles.  Just a dab or 2 should fix the problem.  A better, more permanent fix is to try to use a short piece of tubing to cover that area of wires that are rubbing.

Steve

Steve, I have a bottle of liquid electrical tape but had never used it before so I didn't want to mess with it on my Hudson until I knew where the problem was.  If the tape doesn't hold I think I will try it.  I assume you just dab it on with a very small brush?  Will it hold tight to the wire?

Dillion - Good to hear it was an easy fix, which reminds me I should probably also look closely at my Vision Line Hudson to see if the same type of problem will occur. When I had the issue with CC2 ESE Hudson, my last resort was to call Lionel, as the engine was long out of warrenty. After speaking for a while to a tech there, they suggested look very closely for possibly a pinched wire inside the engine, didnt see anything inside, then later discovered the wire rubbing on the rear wheel. It was barely noticeable the wear on the wire, but enough to cause major issues.

I checked my Lionel ESE Hudson and can clearly see the wires sticking out on the right side of the drawbar. They have not been rubbing, but all of my loops are 072. It looks as if your run on tighter curves, it could be an issue.

Something to keep an eye on, especially if you run on tight curves.

Thanks for the heads up.

VERY GLAD you solved your problem without having to return your engine to Lionel! 

A couple of points:

I agree with the liquid electrical tape - it is useful stuff!

Transient surge protection (Scott's O&E's) plus a Z-4000 is what I use with my VL Hudson.

My VL Hudson has the scale pilot truck attached, so I only run it on 072. In my humble opinion, it should be the MINIMUM radius to run this fine loco on! 

Dillion,

The brand of LIQUID electrical tape I use has an applicator (brush) attached to the inside of the cap.  Sorta like the old liquid shoe polish had.  Try it on some scrap wire to familiarize yourself with it.  It is extremely easy to use.  Like a lady doing her nails. The big hardware stores should carry it.  It has a short drying time.

Steve

Dillon:

Just curious: What radius were you running your VL Hudson on? 

Dillion, Glad you found the problem. Thanks for the info. Yesterday I opened up my new VL Hudson and after reading this thread I took a close look underneath and could see several places where the wires could rub in the future causing problems.I will keep this in mind, Now I  am wondering if something simular could have been the problem with my first 6-11224 Legacy Lindbergh that I returned to Lionel. Thanking everyone for their input. Casey.

Art, my layout has a maximum radius of 072 and a minimum of 042 on one of my reversing loops.  I did notice the problem more on the curves of all radius track but it also acted up on the straight aways which is why I didn't think of a shorting problem right away.  As it turned out, the IR wires were so much to one side that they were up against a wheel most of the time and once they were wore through could short on the straights as well as the curves.  Running clockwise through my layout put less tension on the wires so no problem.  That was the big hint to look for a shorting problem.

Keep in mind that I had been running this engine since June of last year with absolutely no issues and then what seemed to be out of the blue, sporadic problems.  If all my trackage was 072 the problem may have not shown up.  The wearing probably took place on the curves of the 042 and 054 track but once the insulation wore down it acted up on the 072 track too.  As it turns out, it is just a "heads up" to all VL Hudson owners to be aware of this potential problem.  I'm glad I brought this issue to the "Forum" before calling Lionel.  It save me from having to send my engine back.

Do you feel the electrical tape is a permanent fix or will it have to be replaced periodically?  How many hours of running to you think you have on the engine now?  Were you able to fasten the wiring so that it won't happen again?

Bob, I really don't think I could estimate the number of hours I have on this engine.  I probably run my trains at least a couple times a week for maybe an hour or so each time. I'm still working on my layout so it's work a little and then play a little.  You know how that goes.  However, my Hudson and Lionmaster Big Boy are my two favorites so they get most of the running.

I wasn't able to wrap the tape around the wire like I wanted to do so I expect that this fix is temporary.  I will probably try the liquid electrical tape if my current fix doesn't hold.