WBB "1:48"?

Their (WBB) dash 9 is way too short to be scale.

MTH claims their Autorack is 1:48 - it is not even close.

Lionel does this too.

I think it is done all the time and it is frustrating.  O-gauge is nominally "1:48" so a lot of people claim/say that anything that fits on the rails is "1:48."  It annoys me, but there is not much I can do.   

I always try to measure the loco vs. the real world to make sure.  For example, MTH's Railking NW-2 claims to be 1:48 and near as I can determine, it is, almost exactly. The Lionel LC+ GP7 is pretty dang close (interesting to see it next to the Lionel traditonal GP7, which is much smaller).

Wow!! This sounds like the Subway subs. Claim they are 12" but they are shorter.

I agree. Their rolling stock Box Cars, Flats, O27 engines(FA2), 14 in heavy weights passenger cars and Tank cars among others are not scale.

Anybody notice that Lionel branded their recent release of the 18" California Zephyr as "Standard O"?  Whose standard of "O" are they talking about?

If you look at old Lionel catalogs, you'll see phrases like "accurate" and realism" or advertising claims that a product is modeled after the real thing. So this sort of thing has been going on for a long time.

Of course, for over 90 years, most 3-rail operators didn't concern themselves too much with that. If they did, they probably went to HO. It's only really been since the advent of TMCC, that the 3-rail scale movement has picked up steam.

I onced asked people at K-Line, why the "027" term was not being used in their catalogs, even if some products were. The answer was because the customers they were hoping to appeal to, would equate the term to meaning "toys."

There is undoubtedly a scale market, yet it's hard to just wipe away 90+ years of toy trains. There are still a lot of 027, semi-scale operators out there, even if their voices aren't heard frequently on this forum.

As an 027, traditional operator, I want things to be semi-scale - and that's what I look for. As much as some folks get annoyed over a product being semi-scale, I get just annoyed when I find something isn't semi-scale.

I have to thank Lee for his observation...

"The Lionel LC+ GP7 is pretty dang close (interesting to see it next to the Lionel traditional GP7, which is much smaller)"

That let's me know I should avoid the LC+ GP-7. I would have thought Lionel would use the old tooling and dies for this locomotive. Also interesting because, years ago the other train magazine did comparison photos of a Williams and a Lionel GEEP next to each other and the Williams was slightly smaller and rides on the trucks lower... guess that's why I prefer the Williams one.

I personally don't think Lionel could afford to do away with the entire traditional line. But what would I think, make people happier, is if the catalogs were more clear as to whether or not a product is an "approximation," a "representation" or "close to scale" or "accurately scale."

Anyone who has been on the this forum for years, may recall the brew-ha-ha with K-Line when they first started putting out scale products, calling them such, but in reality they were not.

Even at that time, the real outcry was that products be labeled accurately as to what they are. Which would mean more than just a generalism of a product line: MTH Railking at one time meant semi-scale... now Railking is a line of confusion... some of it is true scale, and some of it isn't. Sometimes you get a Rugged Rails car in the new sets.

But Lionel does the same thing. It's a matter of "consumer beware" or doing your homework first before purchasing a product. A little more accuracy in product descriptions might at least take away this one area of frustration. 

"Standard O" was the name of O scale freight car tooling that Lionel / MPC [Model Products Corporation] acquired from Pola of Germany in 1973. Die-cast sprung trucks pivoted at the back, not at the bolster, to negotiate 0-27 curves that were standard for MPC trains. They were bigger than other Lionel trains and they did not sell well. Lionel seemed to be disposing of them in 1976. They were not cataloged after that.

O scale and O Gauge lived in two separate worlds. Each had their own terminology. O scale specified curve radius; O Gauge, curve diameter - 36" radius vs. 0-72 diameter. There are many other examples.

These worlds began to merge in the 1990's when Lionel and MTH introduced 3-rail O scale trains. But no "official" terminology has ever been adopted, so we have a mix.

Today, "Standard O" designates trains that are O scale or close to it.

Lionel acquired American Flyer trains from the disintegrating A. C. Gilbert Company in 1966. American Flyer coined the name "Pul-Mor" or "PullMore" for S gauge locomotives with worm gear drives. After MPC acquired manufacturing rights to Lionel trains in 1969, somebody thought that "PullMore" had a nice ring to it, and that term was applied to Lionel trains. That was jarring to veterans of fierce competition between Lionel and American Flyer from 1945 through 1966, but that term is still used. It has lost its postwar edge.

I giggle every time these kinds of "scale" discussions occur. I know there are those in 3-rail O-Gauge that care deeply about this but personally, I don't. Scale, shmale, if an engine, passenger car or stock car looks good on my layout, the one that has track with a rail going down the center, then it's OK by me. The manufacturers can say what they want. If I cared that much about scale, I would have a scale N, HO or O Scale layout.