Weaver Baldwin BP-20 Sharknose photos needed

I am currently on a business trip so not at my computer. I did a couple of side by side comparisons of the Weaver BP20 and the Lionel BF15/BF16 hybrid here on the forum a few weeks ago.  Do a search under CAPPilot. 

Also, do a search for passenger shark or BP20; there are several hi res photos of the BP20.

Check out my post on Weekend Photo Fun on 12/13/2019.  It shows the roof of both engines.

JohnActon posted:

I have been wanting to bash an AA pair of BP-20 Sharknose locos from two AB pair of RF-16 for some time.  I finally came up with two AB pairs. One problem I cannot find good close up photos of the roof and the grills down the sides.  I need some good detail photos of the roof from a couple of angles and especially the vent louvers in the center of the roof as well as the grills down the length of the sides. A couple of close ups of a single side grill and of the louvers on the roof are my prime need.  If someone has a BP-20 and the ability to make good close up photos I would greatly appreciate your help.          j

FYI an old magazine Rails Northeast did an article on bashing two Mantua RF16 to a BP20. 

Ron, Mike,  Thanks guys.  I have some fairly good overall shots and now need some close ups of the louvers on the roof and the grills along the sides similar to the two shots attached to this message.  From the shots I have I cannot tell the shape of the louvers on the roof and my impression of the side grills is there is a ten horizontal  bar grill over the openings and they seem to be running the full length of the sides.  At some angles it appears that they are bent down at the front and aft sides of the openings. I also wonder if this grill made of horizontal bars has a screen behind the bars.        j

prrhorseshoecurve posted:

FYI an old magazine Rails northeast did an article on bashing two Mantua rf16 to a BP20. 

I ran across that article and it may have played a roll in my inspiration. I thought it was a great idea short of having the $$ for the Weaver BP-20.   Though I think it will be easier in O scale than HO.        j

JohnActon posted:

prrhorseshoecurve posted:

FYI an old magazine Rails northeast did an article on bashing two Mantua rf16 to a BP20. 

I ran across that article and it may have played a roll in my inspiration. I thought it was a great idea short of having the $$ for the Weaver BP-20.   Though I think it will be easier in O scale than HO.        j

I hope so as I am going to do it using Williams RF16 shells and front part of the frame along with the pa drives and the back part of the frame.

Also note that you can buy a cab interior from shapeways and lift rings from Bill Davis of American O scale.

This would be a great article for the magazine John....please consider it!!

Before you get all involved in the kitbash, remember that the freight Shark nose is shorter than the passenger Shark nose. Been there, tried that.

Rex, have not made the first cut but have bought two Weaver AB shark pairs and when I finish adding TMCC to my Lionel 18000 0-6-0 the sharks are next.  I have been studying this for some time and noticed the nose issue.  Doing overlays of the two it seems that most if not all of this lengthening is right at the end of the nose and the negative rake on the two is different. What I plan is to cut just the tip of the nose off and from a side view if I don't add any length to the bottom but lengthen the top where the hood deck rolls off till the rake is correct then fair the nose into the contours of the body with putty I plan to call it close enough. If I am not mistaken the article that prrhorseshoecurve referred to ignores the nose problem. However I think on O scale the difference is more noticeable. Will see when I get there.                j

Alan, would certainly consider that but I am slow and completion may be some time away considering I have not made the first cut.          j

Gentlemen I am still searching for some good close up photos of the louvers on the roof and the grills along the sides of the BP-20.     Thanks !                   j

Mike CT posted this picture of the Weaver on the forum Here

There are a few more pictures.

What a great project!  What will you use for frame and trucks? Did EMD E units use the same trucks?

Bob

FYI, for those that wanted the Weaver Brass model, I'm at the "Big E" and found one on sale  at the Better Living Center Bldg.

A bit pricey but it can be yours. Photo coming on Monday.

prrhorseshoecurve posted:

FYI, for those that wanted the Weaver Brass model, I'm at the "Big E" and found one on sale  at the Better Living Center Bldg.

A bit pricey but it can be yours. Photo coming on Monday.

Mark, if you are making photos can you get me a couple of close up detail shots of the roof louvers and grills along the sides.  I have been searching the WWW for months and yet to find good detailed shots of just the roof louvers and the way they articulate. Also need a close up of one grill panel on the side rather than a shot of the entire side.  Thanks,          j

I think EMD in typical GM fashion used unique trucks on their E units, and other builders bought from general suppliers.

prrjim posted:

I think EMD in typical GM fashion used unique trucks on their E units, and other builders bought from general suppliers.

EMD mostly used their own designs for trucks rather than off the shelf parts.

JohnActon posted:

Gentlemen I am still searching for some good close up photos of the louvers on the roof and the grills along the sides of the BP-20.     Thanks !                   j

MR 1983 cover photo "Update on the Great Southern" has a roof detail photo.

prrhorseshoecurve posted:

prrjim posted:

I think EMD in typical GM fashion used unique trucks on their E units, and other builders bought from general suppliers.

EMD mostly used their own designs for trucks rather than off the shelf parts.

The GM  type "B" and the A1A trucks were both designed by Martin Blomberg for Electro-Motive Corporation Before GM bought them out.   Alco and Baldwin were joint owners of General Steel Castings who made most of Alco and Baldwin's trucks.  Since GE and Alco were joined at the hip before GE bought Alco out they also used many GSC trucks.  GSC A1A trucks were also used on many if not most of the FM Erie Built locos.  The AAR type "A" was also designed by Martin Blomberg. Blomberg had also worked for Pullman before joining EMC and though I am not sure about this point I think he had a hand in the design of the 6 wheel Pullman passenger car truck. Which may have been a starting point in the design of the GSC A1A locomotive truck.   The man's fingerprints are to be found all over early diesel locomotive design. He even had a hand in the design of the Pullman built Union Pacific M-10,000.   I have tried to find any books written by or about him but so far no luck. Though there is a good Wikipedia article about him    j

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Martin_P._Blomberg

Where did G.E. "buy out" ALCo? ALCo folded in 1969!

prrhorseshoecurve posted:

Where did G.E. "buy out" ALCo? ALCo folded in 1969!

Your right,  GE bought or acquired by some means a good deal of Alco's patterns plans and misc equip  connected with the UP turbines and Montreal Locomotive Works continued to make Alco designs till the mid eighties and Worthington (feedwater heater, Steam pumps) bought the name and most assets, merged with Studebaker bought by Mcgraw Edison Then by Cooper Industries who were taken over by Eaton Corporation in 2012 an Irish company buying up US assets due to their business friendly tax climate.   Fini.                    j

See if these help.

CAPPilot posted:

See if these help.

 

Ron, They certainly do.  Thanks a lot !    I do have a couple of questions that I need to make some drawings before I can ask you so will get back to you.   Thanks again.     John

When Weaver closed shop did anyone get the molds for the Sharks.It would be nice to have them made again

MR-150 posted:

When Weaver closed shop did anyone get the molds for the Sharks.It would be nice to have them made again

They are brass models so there are no molds.

Weaver info.  Jan

FYI, tomorrow's Stout Auctions [Forum Sponsor] for Thursday Sept1st has TWO versions of the Weaver models BP20, the as delivered DLGE 5 stripe A-B set [1738] and a separate Tuscan A unit [G1737]. Good luck to those who bid!

Congratulations to the winning bidders. The Weaver A-B DLGE set went for $1900.00 and the single Tuscan A unit went for $700.00

@prrhorseshoecurve posted:

Congratulations to the winning bidders. The Weaver A-B DLGE set went for $1900.00 and the single Tuscan A unit went for $700.00

Not surprising, considering their rarity. That's why I'm building my own. Need some BP20 action on the NY&LB...

@prrhorseshoecurve posted:

Also note that you can buy a cab interior from shapeways and lift rings from Bill Davis of American O scale.

Would you happen to have the part number for the lift rings from Bill Davis?  I coudn't find them on his site.

Thanks,Doug

Sorry i dont have it and sorry to say his parts supply is dwindeling fast.

His lift rings start around #980.

MR. Davis claims parts are now too expensive to make in brass as well as being slow movers.

Thanks, I looked thru all his O scale parts and didn't see them listed, so they must be sold out.  I guess I will have to make them a long with sand hatch doors.

Doug

Try Precision Scale.  Download their parts catalog and price list at this link.

https://www.precisionscaleco.com/

I checked PSC,P&D and Scale City Design, nothing.

Thanks,Doug

@trnluvr posted:

I checked PSC,P&D and Scale City Design, nothing.

Thanks,Doug

What exactly are you looking for?  Page 34 of the Precision Scale Diesel catalog lists welded steel lift rings, part #39109 in brass or #39110 in plastic.  The same page lists welded loop lift rings in brass and plastic as well.

@CAPPilot posted:

You can see them in CAPPilots pic above, they are more of a bracket than a ring.

Doug

If you know someone that’s proficient with design software, perhaps 3D printing would be your way out.

I had designed these FM style lift rings way back when, for the Atlas / AHM C-Liners.

Unfortunately, the freeware I was using no longer offers STL export so I gave up designing my own stuff.

CentralFan1976 said "I had designed these FM style lift rings way back when, for the Atlas / AHM C-Liners... Unfortunately, the freeware I was using no longer offers STL export so I gave up designing my own stuff."

May I ask which Freeware software name and version you used that no longer supports STL Export commands to make these FM style lift rings?

Regards, Steve

Cincinnati, OH

JohnActon said on 1/22/20, "Gentlemen I am still searching for some good close up photos of the louvers on the roof and the grills along the sides of the BP-20. "

I believe I do have the original BLW Locomotive Operator Manuals for the BP-20 and RF-16.  Do you want me to search these manuals for detailed pics?  I am unsure which pics you may need at this point...

I just came across your forum post because I am also searching for RF-16 and BP-20 (DRS-6-4 2000) info.  I own the following 2 Weaver Brass RF-16A shells, 1 Rivarossi RF-16A shell, 1 Locomotive Workshop (LWS) RF-16A Kit (unbuilt kit) and 2 LWS BP-20s (unbuilt A-Unit and B Unit).

Here is what I found as far as BLW RF-16 and BP-20 drawings, but I can't find any pics that show the BLW screens' detailed cross-hatch pattern designs nor the Length x Width squares count.

I briefly searched my Extra 2200 South article indexes and no detailed drawings of the BLW RF-16 (DR-4-4 1500) or BP-20 (DRS-6-4 2000) seem to be listed. For some unknown reason, BLW diesels drawings were seldom included within Extra 2200 South magazine issues.

Detailed drawings of the RF-16 and BP-20 are hard to find. However excellent drawings can be found in the Model Railroader Cyclopedia Vol 2 (red cover c1980) has a detailed BP-20A drawing on Pg 80 and RF-16 A/B drawings on Pg 98 - 99.  It seems this oversized book may have the best comparison drawings between the RF-16 and BP-20, including the BLW noses.

However, Model Railroader in their Mar 1961 pg38 article discusses the PRR BP-20 and may have drawings. Model Railroader also had an RF-16 article in Oct 1966 pg38 that also may have drawings.

Railroad Model Craftsman does discuss BLW RF-16s in RMC April 1953 pg 51 and RMC Jul 1959 pg 49 issues.

The Railroad Model Craftsman "Loco 1 -- The Diesel" c1966 book has a very good cross-listing of detailed scale drawings among all Diesel OEMs, but only shows drawings of the RF-16A on pg 120.

Railroad Model Craftsman discusses a BLW 2000 HP Passenger unit (PRR) article that *could be* about BP-20s in their RMC Jul 1968 pg 46 issue, but I can't verify this article has drawings.

If you are still interested in additional RF-16 and BP-20 info, I am familiar with the work of 2 railfan/draftsmen who create most of the detailed drawings used in past Railfan magazines.  I could contact them for you to see if they have the detailed fan and other details that you need...

Regards, Steve

Cincinnati, OH

Steve thanks for your response.  What I am trying to find are some good pix, or drawings, which show the articulation mechanism for the louvers. Weaver chose to leave this detail off however it sits so proudly on the roof of the BP-20 that it seems a necessary detail to me. It would be a great asset to the model if it had the articulation mech and you could see the fans through the louvers.   I have two Weaver plastic RF-16 AB sets one PRR and one D&H but was not aware that Weaver made a brass RF-16. I had the Williams brass AB set many years ago but their detail is poor and I sold them fifteen years ago. My current plan is to bash my two Weaver AB sets into an AA BP-20. I could really use some detailed drawings or pix of the side grills and the roof louvers     Thanks again,       j