Weekend Tinplate photos 📸 and videos 📽 1/9/20!

I started putting together a 2800 series consist for next year: red hopper, Christmas box car, and red caboose

Here's a New Marx Double-Header 100th anniversary consist.  The lead engine is the 100th anniversary Louis Marx mill and the dummy trailing engine, which is a mix of 100th anniversary and custom components, is the New Marx prototype which was never put into production.

After WW1 the Meccano Ltd company of Liverpool, England, erected a new factory to make Hornby Trains. In 1920, i.e. 100 years ago, the first Hornby Trains were introduced. The company now using the Hornby name, who makes 00 gauge trains, announced for 2020 a tinplate 0 gauge 0-4-0 locomotive (presumably made by ETS) as a Centenary Year Limited Edition, see https://www.hornby.com/uk-en/s...ed-edition-1920.html. This is electric driven while the first Hornby trains were clockwork. Here a  picture of one of my early Hornby trains, a Hornby No 1 clockwork tank-locomotive from the twenties:

The book shown tells the story of Hornby 0 gauge and is highly recommended.

Regards

Fred

The holiday tree and layout stays up for a while longer here, so the Ives Capital Limited set from 1927 gets a turn on the Standard gauge loop.

Marklin in Germany

A small tinplate project I've had in the pending-pile for quite awhile - made from prewar LIonel bits and a Lledo Hudson ambulance from their "Models of Days Gone" series, 1986:

The repainted frame is the only original bit. The wheels, axles, journals, and couplers are all from now-retired George Tebolt. A bit of chain from the jewelery aisle at Michael's, and the Lledo from eBay.

PD

Just got my first Hafner train. Not in the best condition, but usable. Haven't tried running it yet, but the loco winds up and the drive wheels spin.

Robot Invaders at the Munich Toy Museum...looking a little more carefully I noticed the Mr Machine that my mom gave  to me in the late 50's when she worked at the Ideal Toy factory in New York. A subtle message from heaven I think

My first news for 2020 in the collection.

Adolf Schuhmann coach from Set 344 made around 1925. Was missing the roof. I have made them, soldered from two parts.

Issmayer around 1910

Bub for Carette in Catalog 1911

Bub for Carette in Catalog 1911

Possibly Schuhmann or Fischer for Carette in Catalog 1911

Bing ticket office 14085/1 made 1906-1915

Arne

Scott Smith

Arne, beautiful BING ticket office! Thx for photos.

leroof

scott.smith posted:

Scott Smith

The annex is coming along nicely Scott!

George

Picked up a “new” MTH gold plated Millennium set with all 4 cars. Seller said it did not work, so got it cheap. Added a BRC and away it went. 

Steve

For whatever reason, my 384 is my fav.  She’s like a little honey.  High steppin,, classy, she wears all black for a reason, she’s original, stays true her roots, not much for frills.  Pullin some pretty nice brown baby states with her head high.  It’s a beautiful thing.

Cheers!       WK

Just the one new one for me this week ...

A JEP SNCF which I think is a model 120 pre-war type tho it might be later ?( confirmation/contradiction always welcomed )

I just think these are one of the most beautiful streamliners around , the tinwork and flowing lines are rather special in my eyes anyway ( I do have a big soft spot for French Trains tho )

( apologies for crappy seller photos lol , as always its on its way to me from europe at the moment)

It snowed!

Fatman: Loved the JEP engine, enclosing pictures of a JEP dual class (first / second) passenger car marked like your engine as "SNCF" of course.   I acquired it in France on vacation last year (left the tour group and wandered into an antique store). Was told by some folks in the Western Division of TCA that it was post war about 1953.  Only piece in the store and only JEP I have.  Let me know if you can confirm the dates of manufacture of your engine or even where you get any useful data on JEP

Don

Steve "Papa" Eastman posted:

Picked up a “new” MTH gold plated Millennium set with all 4 cars. Seller said it did not work, so got it cheap. Added a BRC and away it went. 

Steve

Sometimes we make our own luck Steve!

 I love the video of your layout open to the warm Caly weather. We are about to get buried in snow. Even if we lose power, my gennie should keep my layout running. That and a sweater and I’ll be good.

George

Don McErlean posted:

 Loved the JEP engine, enclosing pictures of a JEP dual class (first / second) passenger car marked like your engine as "SNCF" of course.   I acquired it in France on vacation last year (left the tour group and wandered into an antique store). Was told by some folks in the Western Division of TCA that it was post war about 1953.  Only piece in the store and only JEP I have.  Let me know if you can confirm the dates of manufacture of your engine or even where you get any useful data on JEP

Don

Hi Don ... I too find French trains hard to get information on and pretty much rely on "My Google Foo" in researching them .. I have found a few sites with info and am currently tossing up whether of not to throw 30 Euros at what seems to be a very large database on the web provided by members of "Group d'Amis Amateurs de Trains Jouet Anciens" Or the French old toy trains group

http://www.train-jouet.com/catalogues/intro.html

I got there from a French collectors website

http://trancien.train-jouet.com/

Google translate version is here https://translate.google.com.a...w.train-jouet.com%2F

this is a few collectors who have some good photos for reference on many European marques

Fatman posted:

Just the one new one for me this week ...

A JEP SNCF which I think is a model 120 pre-war type tho it might be later ?( confirmation/contradiction always welcomed )

I just think these are one of the most beautiful streamliners around , the tinwork and flowing lines are rather special in my eyes anyway ( I do have a big soft spot for French Trains tho )

( apologies for crappy seller photos lol , as always its on its way to me from europe at the moment)

 

Hi Fatman,

That nice JEP clockwork model is a 120 post war one, it dates from 1951 to 1956. Good quality motor and they are fun to use. They where sold with a set of pullman and luggage van and also with freight cars.

Here is a page of the 1953 JEP catalog with your model described, the middle one.

Very best, Daniel

Don McErlean posted:

Fatman: Loved the JEP engine, enclosing pictures of a JEP dual class (first / second) passenger car marked like your engine as "SNCF" of course.   I acquired it in France on vacation last year (left the tour group and wandered into an antique store). Was told by some folks in the Western Division of TCA that it was post war about 1953.  Only piece in the store and only JEP I have.  Let me know if you can confirm the dates of manufacture of your engine or even where you get any useful data on JEP

Don

Hello. A classic passenger car from JEP, a full serie of those cars have been made from 1953 to 1964.

The full set is here,

I have seen sometime those cars availables in USA.

Daniel

Thanks Daniel !

I had seen that type described as pre-war on different sale sites ( probably to get more money lol , if you attach pre-war some sellers think its a license to print money !) but was aware the 120 went into the 50's

Thank you for pinning it down for me , as always I am humbled by the help and knowledge you and others give !

Fatman posted:

 

A JEP SNCF which I think is a model 120 pre-war type tho it might be later ?( confirmation/contradiction always welcomed )

 

 

 

Hello Bruce

This is JEP 4641.LT made from 1951-1956. This type of coupler is postwar. (I just noticed Daniel had already  dated the engine )

I wrote an article for the Train Collector (TCS) on French toy train streamliners. It is attached here as a .pdf. Please let me know whether it is of interest.

Regards

Fred

I have always found any of the books on French trains by Clive Lemming to be very helpful, even if you do not read French.

Miketg

Miketg posted:

I have always found any of the books on French trains by Clive Lemming to be very helpful, even if you do not read French.

Miketg

And Ohhhh so expensive sadly , I agree and have been looking at several longingly , I actually have an enquiry in with a seller in France about postage costs for one of his books

@sncf231e

@ Bruce !!!

( Because ALL Australians are Bruce   I can divulge my real name is Simon lol , but Bruce works ... and the scary part is .. my brother is actually called .... BRUCE !! )

I absolutely love your article, and all the ones I have read , I admire your no frills , factual, and endearing approach to them , your passion still shines through though ... and that is a very entertaining adventure as opposed to some articles etc that give you a "lecture" instead of an education ..,

I thank you for them !

Miketg posted:

I have always found any of the books on French trains by Clive Lemming to be very helpful, even if you do not read French.

Miketg

A catalogue of all (well, many) French toy trains is this book by Clive Lamming. Not much text but some pictures and lots of lists (with small pictures) of all items made by many manufacturers (JEP, LR, Hornby, BLZ etc..). 340 pages

Clive Lamming
Encyclopedie du Train Jouets Francais
Editions du Collectioneur 1993
ISBN 2-909450-14-7

Regards

Fred

There are also many excellent videos of French tinplate trains on YouTube. Just type in Clive Lamming, JEP, French Hornby and it will be a great start.

Miketg

Miketg posted:

There are also many excellent videos of French tinplate trains on YouTube. Just type in Clive Lamming, JEP, French Hornby and it will be a great start.

Miketg

Or just look here: http://sncf231e.nl/french-tinp...s-jouets-classiques/

Regards

Fred

Fatman posted:

 

 

@sncf231e

@ Bruce !!!

( Because ALL Australians are Bruce   I can divulge my real name is Simon lol , but Bruce works ... and the scary part is .. my brother is actually called .... BRUCE !! )

 

@Fatman (Simon), “Would you mind if we call you Bruce [to avoid confusion]?” 🤣

UPDATED: with link to video - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9ojhtq51Ya8

George

WOW! Never realized that one or two posts would result in such an outpouring of data on French toy trains.  It is great!  In just a few days I now know more (or at least where to find more) information than I ever had before and I will be checking those books/websites for more.  Thank you all

Frenchtrains / Daniel - thanks for the catalog cut of the '53 JEP catalog.  I was astounded to see that Fatman's new JEP clockwork engine once pulled a passenger car like mine!  Thank you also for the pictures of the full line of cars from JEP, of course most of these I have NEVER seen! I do not have the window inserts but other than that I can see that my car conforms to the pictures (esp trucks / couplers), by the way these have the most complex couplers I have seen since the AF "links".  Since I only have one piece of JEP I don't even know if they work well!  Wife and I will return to Europe again this summer so I will be diligently annoying our tour guide by breaking away and looking for more cars!

SNCF231E/Fred - you ID'd FATMAN's engine to that '53-56 time period.  That means his engine and my car could have lived on the same layout or under some young person's Christmas tree (not likely but fun to think about).

Miketg:  I thank you for the information on books by Clive Lemming I will consult the "Prince of Books" (AMAZON) to see if that book is available - now I just have to have it   

Fatman - If you are ever in Texas, near Waco...bring your engine and call me.  Maybe we can get our 1953-1956  JEP train on the rails again!  My layout is 0-31, 3-rail so an O gauge clockwork engine should work since we would not have to be concerned about power pick up.

Best regards Don

Don, your JEP passenger car is all original. JEP never produced those cars with window inserts. All the cars of the set may be found easily in France. They where made in large quantities.

There is a choice of several JEP locomotives which where sold with those cars, the most comon are the following ones, just keep in mind that they are DC 20volts motors.

Fred has some nice videos of those trains running on his layout, he will tell you where to look.

Very best,  Daniel

FRENCHTRAINS posted:

 

Fred has some nice videos of those trains running on his layout, he will tell you where to look.

Very best,  Daniel

Don,

Here are 2 videos with trains with the type of car you have:

Simon,

Here is a video with a prewar and a postwar version of the loco you have bought, with matching trains:

Regards

Fred

Fred and Daniel:  Thank you so much.  I just love that BoBo box cab electric I have not got a new acquisition target !  Its really so cool.  Fred, the semi streamlined steamer in your last video looks like the "Flece de Orr" (golden arrow) engine that was really famous for high speed travel (my French is from HS in 1957 so it likely wrong!). The videos and pictures from both you guys are really great, thank you very much. 

So what could I show you...nothing that matches your inputs but maybe you might like to see some GERMAN clockwork trains.  All of the attached photos are labeled..."Made in the American Zone Germany" which makes them from 1945 until about 1952.  the engine is a Karl Bub, labeled with the manufacturer and it is clockwork.  The cars carry the "American Zone" origin ID but do not appear to have a manufacturers name...they may be Bub or not.  ESSO tanker and the Baggage car are the same, "American Zone" but no mfr name.  The The one exception is the Benzine tanker which does have the "KB" name but just lists..."Made in Germany" so that means it could be pre 1945 before the country was divided or post the 1955 withdrawal of Allied occupation troops - although if that were the case I would have expected it to say Made in "Western" Germany. Anyway here are some pictures - enjoy.

Karl Bub "Made in US zone, Germany" clockwork loco and train

Some better views of the engine

Two passenger coaches, market "Made in US zone, Germany" but not marked Karl Bub

Esso Tanker and Baggage Car, both marked "Made in US zone Germany" but again no mfr mark, not marked Bub

Benzine Tanker, marked "KB" but simply stamped "Made in Germany"

One odditiy, some of the cars have plastic wheels.  Now maybe these were replaced sometime in their later life I don't know but it seems out of character to their age.  Comments and new data always welcome.

Hope you guys enjoyed these German trains, I gathered them up during my trips to Ramstein AFB in Germany when I worked for the Air Force.

Don

Hello Don,

there are a few mistakes. The loco is not marked KB, the logo says KD that´s Konrad Dressler.

As follows:

Loco Konrad Dressler from the 50s

Green coaches HWN Heinrich Wimmer Nurnberg from the 50s

Esso car Konrad Dressler from the 50s

Red baggage car Heinrich Wimmer from the 50s

The Leuna car is Karl Bub 1052/0 made 1934-1938

Greetings

Arne

Arnie:  THANK YOU!  I admit I must have misread the KB for the KD or maybe I was just expecting a KB.  Admit I had not heard of Konrad Dressler.  The 1950's dates match perfectly because of the "American Zone" marking, that ended, at least according to the internet, in '52 or so (some say as late as '54) .  The dating on the Leuna car also makes sense as it would be marked with a zone or as western Germany up until the consolidation which was relatively recent. OBTW given your answer I took a magnifying glass to the Baggage car and did find a very very small "HWN" logo in a ribbon like script on the ends of the car almost invisible unless you are looking for it. Now I know what it means!!  I will now look again to see if a similar logo is anywhere on the passenger coaches. 

THANKS AGAIN for the data. 

Don,

some manufacturer had never changed the tools, so you can find the "Made in US Zone" till to the 60s

Arne

@George S Bruce works !

For Don @Don McErlean

Another Dressler I have ...

And back to French with an electric Hornby Series M

Arnie:  Oh Boy...your message on the fact that some manufacturers never changed their tools really puts the "dating" game in a confusing place.  I note that FATMAN also has some Dressler trains.  I will admit my ignorance of this brand, do either of you know of any sources of information on Dressler?  By the way...I took the time this morning to use a magnifying glass on my trains I put in this thread.  Clearly, with my poor eyesight augmented, the symbol on the engine is KD and not KB.  The "D" is highly elongated horizontally and is black but placed inside a red shadow in the shape of a steam engine, traveling from the cab to the boiler front. I also looked at the Baggage and the HWN logo is plainly visible on the end and thanks to You Guys I now know what it means. 

Despite careful use of the magnifying glass I could not find any markings on the ESSO tanker or the Passenger Cars except the "made in Germany, US Zone" .   Litho decoration does show some  markings on the Passenger Cars but they appear to be (my German is very rusty) class designation by the door (2 different words one by each door) and a city designation in the center of the car, which seems to be Munich.  The tanker has nothing but typical freight car markings. The printing on the passenger car sides is very faint and not really complete.

FATMAN - Your Dressler engine is really cool.  The close up of the cab clearly shows the "Made in Germany, US Zone" marking so it would be of the same vintage as mine. It is much more streamlined than mine, more representative of engines in the 30's / 40's when steam was king and aerodynamic streamlining was in vogue for fast passenger engines.  The French Hornby loco is also very cool.  I have some Hornby (vintage 50's) and have studied the Hornby book you illustrated in your post.  I have two boxed sets that I bought from a local hobby shop in Dayton who got them in trade for Lionel.  Folks there didn't know what to do with them and at the time neither did I but they were litho, tinplate, boxed, and cheap...so I took them.  they have been in storage for awhile so pictures will be in the future.  I do have two tank cars and a "furniture" van complete with load and lifting chain (all 4 wheel) which I could post if you are at all interested as these are out and on my shelf.

Finally I am including pictures of a gondola, which via its lithography appears to represent a wooden outside braced car.  This would seem to be a later car as the wheels are plastic.  It contains no markings except "Made in Germany" in black printing contained in the lithography on the car ends at the very bottom plank. The tab/slot couplers have a "T" shaped slot and are similar to some of the ones Arnie identified as Dressler in regard to the ESSO tanker. 

Question...is Dressler still around? 

Well guys, thanks for both the info and the photos.  This is a great string for me as information about foreign trains is not easy to get,  with perhaps Hornby the exception.  By the way, if you are interested in British toy trains other than Hornby, I can recommend the 5 volume series , "British Toy Trains, featuring all those other British toy train manufacturers", by Michael D. Foster and Michael Bowes (who also wrote a superb little book full of pictures on Issmayer titled "Issmayer Trains -the missing catalogue").  These books are soft cover, about 8 1/2" x 11", printed on beautiful stock and absolutely full of color pictures.  Their cost was modest, and although I had to get the first one from UK the others were domestically sourced.

Thanks for all the data and information

Don

Don,

the green gondola is the next manufacturer, this is model No 231 made by Distler between 1953 and 1957.

At the Historytoy database, you can find a few pictures of Dressler and a short history.

Historytoy

Greetings

Arne