What 21" Passenger Cars would you like to see Lionel Produce?

Did not know Lionel had made any 21" cars, thinking that was the lost province of

K-Line. Doesn't 21" just pertaom to lightweights?  If so, the Grande ones have been

done, well, not as bad as some, but often, so I'd be interested in MoPac and Rock Island.  In heavyweights I'd want the Pre-war Grande Exposition Flyer cars.

Amfleets. There's enough paint schemes with variations (9, I think) to justify it (and in Daylight to match the Cab Forwards).

Viewliners. One sleeper floor plan, 3 paint schemes. 

Viewliner IIs (add the baggage and diners).

This is an easily assembled box set, you know.

Since Lionel rarely recognizes Amtrak's existence, so I won't hold my breath.

I would like to see from Lionel an Atlantic Coast Line Champion with the purple letterboards (short version) with a blunt-end observation. Would also like to the the extra 2-car packs as sleepers only, since this train regularly ran 3-6 per trip. 

 

Would also like to see some separate run cars with Florida East Coast, RF&P and maybe PRR to accurately portray Florida trains. 

 

I have also hinted to Scott Mann about the same train for their 21" cars, since they have already made a blunt-end Pennsy obs.

UP Heritage Fleet

Well, that sure is news to me about Lionel making any future 21" SCALE passengers equipment. However, if it is true, I would sure like to see CORRECTLY done Union Pacific passenger equipment.

If Lionel did individual passenger cars of this I would be happy. 

Jack, just check out the new Signature Catalog. I spoke to Matt Ashba at the Amherst Train Show and knew they were coming. In terms of scale details, time will tell.

IC City of New Orleans would be a great start.  Santa Fe Super Chief not far behind.

 

Art

Yes, it's not possible to tell anything from the catalog pictures. My interest is in passenger car interiors more than, for example, undercarriage detail so I was slightly alarmed to see that the 21" catalog pictures show no interior details unlike the 18" cars on the following page. Maybe someone from Lionel can be persuaded to tell us if they've got new tooling for the interiors. But I'm not complaining - see below.

 

Same here although I want present-day excursion train consists. Fat chance. (Must suggest this to Scott M.)

 

However, they nailed what I like by producing a collection of Texas Special 21" cars and I'll be in for that. Maybe the windows won't go frosty/crackly like in my Lionel aluminum set . . .

The description states "detailed interiors". The photographs themselves appear to have computer-generated windows as placeholders.

 

---PCJ

   I would like to see the Hiawatha in 21" in the orange and maroon colors, this time with several domes and improved windows and other details.

 

   Perhaps issuing three at a time would go easier on the wallet. Three issues of three would be great!

 

   At some time, a Milwaukee Erie-built to go with it would complete the picture.

 

John Knapp

Erie, not Eerie

I would like to see both of these as well

I understand that the description indicates that the passenger cars will be 21", however the is absolutely no indication that they will be SCALE, nor "road specific". They will apparently be ABS/plastic "generic" passenger cars, very similar to the MTH 18" cars.

+1

In todays Notch 6 podcast Mike Regan explained that Lionel is using new modular tooling for these cars. He talked about how they are able to do road specific details like some having skirting and some not. I dont think these will be at all like the generic MTH cars

There is a lot more to "road specific details" than simply skirting or no skirting. Proper window placement tends to be the most obvious passenger car differences.

ATSF El Capitan and CNW Twin Cities 400.

The only way to make any passenger car 100% accurate is to model by roadname and plan number from the builder (Budd or AC&F). Even the ubiquitous 10/6 LW sleepers had different plan numbers, giving the windows a slightly different look. I am not sure if Lionel will ever want to go to that length, given the number of molds it will need.  

 

We may have to settle for a car that is 90% correct, but they would still be better than most other passenger cars on the market. 

I am 100% OK with 90% correct

UP Heritage Fleet, led off by the flag baggage car.

I would really like a N&W Powhatan arrow set with add on cars and station sounds diner. If I'm lucky it will be in the next catalog.

Are you aware of the Golden Gate Depot N&W Powhatan passenger set?

You are aware of course, that Sunset/3rd Rail/Golden Gate Depot has been doing just that, and producing spectacular, and CORRECT, scale passenger train sets.

Hot water I am not. How are there cars?

But once those GGD sets are gone, they are gone forever. They rarely show up on the secondary market and I am pretty sure they won't be rerunning any previous sets. So therefore if you missed out you need to look to the other manufactures.

Super Chief please!

That's just great, assuming you don't give a crap about prototypical accuracy!

The Ggd cars look awesome. I like that they are aluminum instead of plastic and exact to scale. Got some thinking to do here. My legacy J would look great with six GGD cars behind it.

GGD has a long track record of consistently making high quality passenger cars with road specific details.  Lionel does not:  Think the domeless CA Zephyr obs car, windows bulging out the sides, the same window pattern on each car, the identical baggage car for each set, etc.  Or in the freight arena:  those lovely chocolate brown X31s.   I have no reason to switch manufacturers.

 

As for the price differential, I am not a fleet collector.  I'd rather have one good car done right, than two done wrong at half the price.

 

 

I am pleased to see Lionel is making 21" Wabash passenger cars as they listed 18" cars on the previous catalog.  The 21" are even cheaper than the 18" cars.  If the dealers who advertise in the magazines decided to order the 18" Wabash cars from Lionel expect to see the price drop. 

 

http://www.lionel.com/products...neID=&CatalogId=

 

http://www.lionel.com/products...neID=&CatalogId=

 

I wouldn't be surprised to see UP in the line with the VOL 2 Catalog. 

 

 

I think for the train I want, the ACL Champion, GGD will be the best option since Lionel will more than likely not make the blunt end obs or correct sleeper configurations. As for $250 a car, Lionel was charging close to this for the scale Polar Express cars, MSRP. I am like you Hot Water, if I am going to get exactly what I want, then I will fo to GGD.

 

I may still Lionel's version, though, depending on what they make in the future. Hopefully Lionel will consider single car sales in this series for the future.

I am willing to wait and see but am still skeptical Lionel will make prototypically accurate cars. 21" cars means either using K-Line tooling or make new tooling. If the latter then maybe there is a chance. I hope at least they make the couplers easily removable or that they close the gap. I consider Lionels 18" streamliners the best of shorter cars. They make both Pullman and Budd style cars and use full width diaphragms where called for. Their trucks are excellant in many cases better than GGD as is underbody detail. 

 

Pete

Pete, according to a Lionel executive, the new 21" cars will be made from all NEW TOOLING.

Hopefully both Lionel and GGD will make separate sale cars. Trains of the 50s rarely had matching consists due to connections.  Having the option to mix and match using 95-100% accurate cars would be the best option.

GGD does individual cars from time to time.  One example now is the Budd Slumbercoach.  To me this is a Holy Grail of passenger trains.  It is certainly worth the $250.00 to me.  In the past GGD has offered single car PS 4-4-2 and 10-6 sleepers along with PS Coaches.  Granted they are a few years old now and accurate to a specific floor plan, they are still very nicely detailed cars.

 

Also, most GGD sets are offered with add-on individual cars.  I purchased 11 cars of the Santa Fe El Capitan (8 car set and three add on cars) and one Amtrak 63' baggage. 

 

Right now a completely accurate Sunset Limited is being offered.  The window patterns are correct and the floor plans are correct to the car type.  My Canadian has all the correct floor plans for each of the cars.

 

Having said that, if Lionel were to do accurate cars in 21" I'd be open to add them to my fleet.  I still use K-Line cars mixed in with my GGD ones.

The '38 Broadway/General, the '51 Super Chief, the El Capitan, the upcoming arrow set, and others that GGD has produced have all come with the option for single sale add on cars. Additionally, GGD has recently done PS smooth side sleepers in 10-6 and 4-4-2, as well as the coaches to go with them. Thats just in the past 12 or so months.  Heavy weights were done one by one as well. 

The tools to make correct trains are out there and have been available for quite some time if one looks past the orange and purple boxes.

 

In the high end brass market we say 80% and your doing well. 90% would be spectacular but we're not seeing this in $1400-$2000 passenger cars.



       
These CZ 10/6 Budd Key samples (pilot samples with errors for construction methodology research) --
After 5 years of research to the style of weld seems found on air tanks the model will only be 75-80% correct to the 1:1 prototype simply based on scaling down to 1/48.

I know what you mean. I am throwing this in as a reality check. ;-)

Maybe some aluminum ones...