What 21" Passenger Cars would you like to see Lionel Produce?

Yeah, this ones easy! The California Zephyr!!

 

 

But, will they do away with the stick on windows? That is the question you better be asking Lionel.

Why would Lionel offer another CZ after Atlas has pretty much saturated the market with CORRECT 21" scale cars?

Would love to see 20th Century Limited done, but please reflect the all-Pullman nature of the train and use sleeper cars instead of stuffing the set with "coaches."  I'm not demanding super-accuracy to the prototype; this one's low-hanging fruit.

Sunset/3rd Rail/Golden Gate Depot already offered all three versions of the 20th Century Limited.

What 21" Passenger Cars would you like to see Lionel Produce?

 

Anything but what's been offered before (by any maker).

 

The ACL Champion and any of the SAL Silver series (Meteor, Star, Comet) would be an excellent choice.  Accuracy in consist makeup and window placement is all important to me, doesn't have to be a 15-car set, but a 3-5 car set would suffice, and offer individual cars if folks want to add on.

 

How about L&N?

As has been stated already, an Illinois Central "City of New Orleans" or "Panama Limited" plus, they have the engines to pull them.

 

Matt mentioned the C&NW "400" which would be nice, but that train had such a unique observation end that I don't think the typical boat tail or blunt end would work. Maybe Lionel can figure how to change the ends with the modular method.

 

Also, because it is plastic, these may be more suited toward painted color schemes and not plain stainless.

 

As Erik pointed out, even high end brass is not 100%. Everyone here has different compromises and hopefully Lionel can figure out where that line is.

 

The other issues not really mentioned so far are the mechanicals. This is an area everyone can improve on (Lionel, GGD, MTH and K-Line) I don't have any of the Atlas cars.

 

The price seems reasonable with the information presented so far. I'm sure Lionel will weigh in with more details as they become available.

 

Charlie

E G Budd bi-level gallery commuter cars.

With all this talk of Lionel  verses GGD, has anyone noticed the short baggage cars in the catalog? The Wabash and the Southern appear 21", but the Rock Island, Texas Spacial and C&O look like 18" baggage cars. Catalog mistake? Just odd to me.

Baggage cars were not typically 85' cars.  Most were 72' or 18" in length.  Santa Fe had 63' baggage cars.  Many railroads did not bother with the expense of purchasing streamlined baggage cars at all utilizing heavyweights to the end.  The PRR is one such road that never had a streamlined baggage car. 

 

Amtrak converted several Heritage coaches to baggage cars in the 90's and they are 85' cars, but that is the exception rather than the rule.  Not all streamlined cars were 85' cars also. Some roads opted for 72' cars, but again it's about researching your prototype.  For me that is the fun part of this hobby!

GG14877 -

 

I know about the differences in LW baggage cars. My railroad the ACL had 2 LW baggage, using heavyweight cars from Pennsy and other roads. It is just Lionel advertised 21 inch cars, so I figured all the cars would be that length. Odd that Lionel would even try to mix it up with these cars. 

 

I like how they call the Southern car a Pullman and the Rock Island a coach (in the 4 car sets), with the same window arrangement. Go figure!

Larry - hope you didn't take offense at my comments on baggage cars.  One of my issues with the K-Line 21" offerings was the generic 85' baggage car.  Well my issue with K-Line in general was generic cars which work great for my Amtrak set, but not so well for my PRR collection of cars. 

 

Lionel catalog artwork is not always accurate to the final product so it is always helpful to seek clarification from them.  My experience with most manufacturers is that generic cars are common.  GGD has even done some as well, however I will say that the Atlas CZ, Horizon and Comet cars along with GGD offerings are going to be usually the most accurate scale passenger cars available. 

 

Keep your eyes open for a SAL Silver Meteor. That set is all about the accurate Sun Lounge.  It may be in the works with GGD after the Sunset Limited goes into production.

No problem Jonathan. It's all good.

I believe that Mike Reagan said in the Notch 6 podcast that they are doing road specific window placement also.

I'm surprised that they didn't catalog passenger cars with all the Alco PA road names.  But I would want Union Pacific cars to go with a Lionmaster Challenger, or ATSF bi-level and single level El Capitan cars with a transition car.  Super Chief also.

I'll nominate the Pullman-Standard cars that C&O ordered - many went to other roads after C&O decided not to go through with purchasing almost 300 streamlined cars to reequip their fleet.

Well instead of waiting for Lionel to produce then 21" cars in N&W colors. I went ahead and pre ordered the GGD 5 car set with 2 add on cars. I feel the same way John I don't want to have a bunch of average trains, I want a handful of nice ones.

 

I wonder if Lionel will start to offer more passenger cars like MTH does? MTH offers sets with 11 cars.

That was a good move. The GGD N&W set is going to be beautiful! I really wanted to order a set as well but I went a little overboard with other preorders.

"But, will they do away with the stick on windows?"

 

As covered in the features of the new Lionel 21" passenger cars, YES. As  far as the 18" cars being offered in this catalog, my guess is no until the inventory is exhausted and they convert to new 18" tooling.

 

I have a K-Line 21" PRR passenger set with 21" baggage and RPO cars that I never use because the PRR never had them.  I use a K-Line 18" streamlined RPO to simulate the few cars like this the PRR had, and all my other head end cars are B60s, X-29s, R50s, etc.  I think it is good that Lionel puts 18" baggage and RPO cars in these new 21" sets because that is more representative of most roads.

PRR congressional, PRR pullman.

N&W Powhatan Arrow and Pocahontas. And proper consist of cars too. Not just a generic set with a paint job and decals. And yes, I know 3rd Rail is offering the Powhatan Arrow. I need to get my pre-order in.

 

Gilly

But if you didn't order them before they were released there ain't no way you are getting them now! Therefore, lets hope Lionel does them.

Well, sort of, yes. The various NYC passenger sets have showed up for sale both on eBay, and even here on the OGR For Sale or Trade Forum.

 

Besides, what with even Lionel going "build to order", what is the difference. Bottom line is, "You snooze, you loose.".

OK, I'm confused with your statement, "….to go with my Lionmaster Challenger,", as I thought that a Lionmaster model was designed for very sharp curves, like 031. Thus, how would one propose to operate 21" long passengers cars on 031 curves?

I believe the new Lionel 21" cars will be sell outs.  Since I like just about any passenger equipment, I have no preference.  One thing is the finish.....I am hoping that they have a finish which looks better than silver paint!  This is one reason why I like the unpainted K-line cars...  On the other hand, the chromed ends of the K-line cars were too bright BUT that is a problem that can be corrected.  I applaud Lionel in producing these cars...

 

Alan

Very well said, Adman. Much of the harshest criticism of LIONEL's efforts reflect an ignorance or disregard of the market or costs of producing true to prototype scale passenger trains.

you mean there is already a complete Atlas set out there? Why can I not find it?

Want to bet that the Atlas CZ dome observation car will be here before anyone sees any Lionel 21" passenger cars?

Arent the CZ Obs cars already in production?

Yes, actually back last year (2014) but, were not accepted since the "finish" on the sample was not acceptable to the Atlas folks. The order of dome observations are supposed to be shipped in March, last I heard. Some "other" additional add-on cars will come in late 2015, I believe.

In reply to this thread's topic, let's see an NP North Coast Limited in the Loewy two-tone green livery.

Well, if Lionel is going to get any set right it should be the NYC ESE set. Most of the cars were coaches and six of them live about 20 miles from me along with one of the RPOs. Lionel's catalog shows the coaches with windows of the same size. The prototype has smaller windows closer to the ends and larger ones in the center. These cars are being restored and I expect the blue stripe will be removed.

 

 

 

Pete

Just thought of this. A "Rail-fan" set with mixed cars in a variety of popular liveries would probably be a good seller. You could pull it with virtually anything and represent any post-Amtrak era excursion train.

 

Gilly

I really liked the K-Line 21" cars.  I have enough, and in enough different road names, that I don't care what else makes it to market.  Had I waited, I would have stocked up on the GGD cars, which, while slightly more complicated, were way better models.

 

What I am seeing above is a desire to have Lionel compete with GGD and Atlas in the accuracy department, at about half price.  I suppose that could happen. I wonder, though, if it is possible?

       
       


I agree Bob2

It begs the question, why is Lionel building 21" cars and giving up on the 18" cars. I have assumed the buyers of 21" cars are the ones who want accurate models. 

A few years ago Lionel made some "Post War Scale" boxcars. They pretty much flopped because they didn't really represent a prototype so were rejected by the scale guys and the toy train guys (including myself) couldn't find a place for them. 

FWIW I have 12" and 15" traditional cars and 18" and 21" scale cars. I like them all but if I were to buy more 21" cars I would expect them to be accurate.

 

Pete

 

Pete

"It begs the question, why is Lionel building 21" cars and giving up on the 18" cars."

 

I would be shocked if this were the case. My guess is they will use the existing inventory of aluminum shells and then go to new tooling for their 18" passenger cars in plastic.

Will these Lionel cars come with interiors, LED lighting and peeps?  Here's what it says on the GGD site about the N&W cars they're offering:

 

I don't yet own a Lionmaster Challenger, but would like to preorder one.  Also, just because it can run on O-31 doesn't mean I would run it on O-31.  So, I was saying that I would like them to make Union Pacific passenger cars which I think would look good with a Lionmaster Challenger that I would be running on O-54 or O-63.