What are Tinplate Trains

Eagle,

We set up a huge Christmas display with fastrack loops and standard gauge loops. I have found there are voltage drop offs with the Fastrack. So, what I have found works best for me is installing the power wires about every 6-8 feet of track and I run them to the MTH terminal board, and power the terminal board with the power pack.

Typically, you cannot mix manufacturer's track systems, as they are all different in their own ways. I have always like the tubular track, for its conductivity and ease of cutting pieces to fit your needs. However, as with all track, each one has their own pro's can con's. Hope this helps.

A good track that looks realistic with wooden ties is Gargraves, but it is all about what your  intentions are with the setup. Is it permanent or will it be taken down frequently and put away? Hope this helps?

JoeG

Tinplate... is a method of using great big machines to thinly coat metal (usually wrought iron or stamped steel) with tin to resist corrosion.

Tinscale is closer to what I think you're after. It's basically half (semi) scale O scale stuff. Confusing yet?

 This is a wonderful example of tinplate,

 This is a great example of Tinscale. Notice how the old Marx Fairbanks-Morse is significantly smaller compared to the GP-9 when they'd both, in reality, be probably about the same size? 

Also look at some of the boxcars or other trains. Scale items can make up a train well over 8' in length, while the semi scale versions will be much smaller. This all ties into the O27 / O31+ thing about track radius. Smaller, more flexible (not one long chassis like a steamer) locomotives tend to go around smaller radius track better. 

O31 is pretty much the standard and is fairly easy to tell separately from O27 due to the taller track and black ties. O27 is the small size / big fun track of choice with a smaller profile and usually brown ties. There have been a gajillion manufacturers of this stuff so those are kinda the baseline. Taller rails = O31. Most track (within reason) can be mixed with the right adaptation but whether or not you want to go there is totally up to you.

Tinplate or Tinscale trains look much more at home on O27 track, which is what the majority of them were designed for. Tinscale and O27 go hand in hand. The scale is supposed to be around 1:48 but it's actually much closer to the s gauge "American Flyer" 1:64 Scale. 

If you're super confused and scratching your head over the multitude of stuff out there, just go with O31. It's what lots of rolling stock is designed for and it's probably easier to find. I model in Tinscale and don't really care if things are 1/8" out or not. They're just trains, it's just fun and that's all that should matter.

Eagle, 

  If this helps, here is an article The TCA put out in the past.

http://tcaetrain.org/articles/.../tinplate/index.html

Tom 

Then to confuse the situtation further, you have "tinplate" from Europe.  Engines of scale size, yet made in the traditional tinplate style.  Bassett Lowke by Corgi or Hornby, ACE Trains and Darstaed all make trains this way although for now Hornby discontinued the BL range of trains.  Every area seems to have thier own break down of the 0 scale 3 rail hobby.  Coarse and fine scale over in Europe, Tinplate/traditional and 3 rail scale or what I used to see called Hi-rail here in the states.  I try to stick with tinplate tubular track indoors, has worked for over 100 years for Lionel so it works great for me.  Buy yourself a set of the track plyers to reshape and tighten up the ends of the rails when the fit of the pins gets loose.  But at this time my friend and I are planning an outdoor Coarse scale 3 rail line, it will be Gargraves with Stainless rails and wood ties laid on a raised roadbed the same height as our deck railings.   Here is an example of Coarse 0 scale, This is a Bassett Lowke LMS Stainer mogul in live steam.  Scale size, needs 4' or larger radius to run, but is no larger than my old prewar Lionel 225e.  The Lionel will run around 0-27 track, but the mogul wont even make 0-42 curves.   For my indoor trains, I try to stick to older Lionel traditional size trains, they can handle the tightest curves, run well and are much better made quality wise IMHO. My late 30's 225e will run circles around what comes in starter sets today.   Mike

I was at the WGH show in Houston a few years ago.  There was an operating layout there by a club with "Tinplate" in their name.  I asked the gentleman running the trains what exactly "Tinplate" referred to, and he said it was the track they were using.  (I believe it was k-line shadowrail).

Everywhere I look, I get a different definition of what tinplate is.

Artful,

That LMS engine is beautiful. since I do not know much about European, will it run on std tracK?

JoeG

Yes Joe, European tinplate, in this case UK style will run on normal 3 rail Lionel track. The big differance is its for 3 rail DC instead of AC that we are more commonly used to.  The min radius is often much larger, even in the case of small 6 coupled tank engines as blind drivers are rare.  Even the small 0-6-0 Pannier tank engine will need 0-42 or larger to run.  Older pieces from Bassett Lowke and Hornby are not always the case.  Many have gotten bit by the UK tinplate bug after seeing some of the beautiful engines offered.  USA engines were mostly big, black and in your face with just a few exceptions.  UK style was for the most part, very clean lines with little to no piping outside the boiler jacket, colorful and shiny paint schemes for many of the years of steam operation, leading many in the USA to call them bland in detail when they see a model. However this is how the real ones really were when you research prototype drawings or watch youtube videos of the restored engines in operation.  The UK preservation scene is much much more active than in the states and many more engines have been restored and one was even built from scratch, something our scatterbrained preservationists here in the states have yet to pull off.  Seeing a huge group from several museums get together and build, say a NYC J1-e Hudson from the ground up, would be almost impossible here. But they are doing it there, not once but I believe another engine is under construction now.  To the group Martin posted about, I have seen "tinplate" also used to denote the track used.  But to me it means trains mostly made of tinplate metal, with the engines sometimes being diecast but of a prewar vintage when most all rolling stock was actualy tinplate and not plastic.   Mike

O gauge track is going to be 1¼" between the outside rails regardless of the manufacturer.  the more important thing is the track profile.  for example if you try to mate Gargraves track to tubular, your wheels, especially traction tires are going to take a beating in the long run every time they hit the transition.

if you're doing some planning on paper, it might be of importance to note that while the larger track diameter curves are measured from center rail to center rail over the diameter of a circle, O31 and O27 circles are measured from the outside tie to outside tie diameter.  in other words if you had a 31" circular table, a circle of O31 track would fit completely on the table, ties and all.

fun stuff...gary

Would like to thank all of you for getting me a little up to speed.  I think I understand that "tinplate" is better used to describe trains. I need to understand tracks better.  I understand gauge and now I think a little about track profile, which I assume can affect compatibility. My grandson likes to take tracks apart and put back in different layout configurations.  So I am interested in finding a source of tubular tracks and, if I have it right, I should probably not be missing with Margraves, black rail, or anything other than standard or traditional tubular.....does that mean just Lionel?  Have been desperately looking for O-31 left and right manual switches.  Any suggestions on good sites to obtain tubular tracks?

Thanks again to all for your help.

If your grandson wants to take it apart and put it back together again and you don't want to pay for Fastrack (I don't blame you) then tubular is definitely the way to go and although some manufacturers made their own track, the gauge is the same. Can't go wrong with Lionel tubular track. 

I'm gonna get my wrist slapped for this... Ebay is the best place to find bulk (by the dozens) track pieces for a nominal price. 

Also check with any local hobby shops that purchase collections.  Many times they will darn near give away the track, atleast localy they will.  One shop down in Indianapolis is overflowing with good Lionel std O and O-27(rail height) second hand track.   Mike

I would agree. I bought a nice box of 100+ pieces recently for less than $50. Another good source could be local train shows.

Overlandflyer gave a nice definition of tinplate on another post recently...he said:

"to me "tinplate" is more of a figurative than a literal term with perhaps the only requirement being trains that were built to run on small radius, tinplate, tubular steel track."

I think that is as good as it gets...short and simple.

Tom 

What are tinplate trains?....stuff that looks like this.

I find that brand new tubular track is almost as expensive as Fastrack. I've been purchasing Fastrack recently and have been much happier with it than tubular. For the extra 50 cents or so you get track that has better connection and stays to-gether better. Tubular (especially o-27) needs clips on the ties on either side of every joint to properly stay connected, and doesn't have a sturdy base to sit on like fastrack does. If you hop on ebay you can find good prices on fastrack that is in like-new condition.

You say "standard or tubular." I am just making sure you understand "Standard" also refers to a size of track. 3 rail Standard gauge tracks are wider (2.125") than 3 rail O gauge tracks. You need the 3 rail O gauge tracks.

I would define it as original Tinplate if and only if it is not an MTH Remake with Proto sounds, they are cool but some what of a pain with the coupler opening on switches or getting stuck on the guide rail of switches sometimes