What did MPC do differently?

I completely agree. I think MPC, in addition to providing life-support for Lionel for a few years, became extremely innovative, and produced some extremely high-quality trains. I collected a lot of MPC trains at one time, and still have quite a few of the items, and I think it's great stuff. Some of the things MPC produced are better than others, of course, like everything else, but I have always wondered at those complaining about unpainted shells and plastic wheels, etc. None of the many MPC items I had, and very little of what I encountered, had that construction.

I still have MPC cars going back to the early 1970s, the 9200 series boxcars (including 3 examples with variations of the first car, the 9200 Illinois Central, which goes back to the first year of MPC production in 1970), and they all have painted shells, metal wheels, and metal frames. Certainly there were some inexpensive basic beginner items produced that were more cheaply made, but those were pretty scarce, really. Maybe it's because all the naysayers bought them up! 

The innovations and revolutionary products produced during the MPC era are almost too numerous to mention, but one area I truly admire is certainly the advances they made with graphics, color and design, which really are amazing.

Anyone who's at all interested in this period should look for a copy of the Greenberg's Guide to Lionel Trains 1970-1991 Volume 1, which contains color photos of and discussion about every single engine and car Lionel made during this period. Page though that, remember this began 45 years ago, and be amazed.

Great pictures of Jim Sutter's store back in the day. Jim, if I'd come in there then, I would have probably wanted a sleeping bag and ordered pizza delivery so I could stay awhile!

I mentioned it in a previous comment.

another thing to remember, trains from the MPC era are approaching 50 years old & still running & if not, I bet you can easily find parts to make them run again

breezinup,

You would of been more than welcome. Sometimes, I would catch myself counting how many different NEW MPC cars we had in stock at any time. I know there were times back in the late nineties we had over 600 different cars all brand new boxed. I felt like I was in fantasyland. Here is a polaroid picture of the west wall of our two car garage filled with MPC 9800 reefers. Our two car garage was filled with Weaver and MPC freight cars. My father told me one time, a cow couldn't find its calf in our garage. I told my father, yea I know but she would have a lot of fun looking for her calf.  

they"turned it around" due to 1950s kids now grown being involved in the hobby. and 1970s lionel had little or no competition until mikes came along.if mpc would have started out in the early 60s ,it would have had the same dismise the lionel corp.did.looking at all the photos, wonder who got stuck with that stuff.-jim

Thank-you to everyone that answered my question. I own a lot of MPC and I love it. The billboard boxcars and baby Madisons are some of my favorites and can always be found for reasonable prices, sometimes new in the box. Some people complain that they are being priced out of the hobby but I just purchased an early 70s set that looks new, runs great and paid $60.00 with a crisp box

I didn,t like mpc due to the dc sets.Later on I got a postwar736 much better.All around nice train.I have some mpc boxcars but they a different from the dcsets.I going by my exsprance which is not good.I think they hurt the lionel name.

Some only see the worst but MPC did a lot of great things with Lionel trains including near copies of postwar items with real RR names and colors.

High cube box cars where never seen in three rail before. I remember what a big deal a new Trainmaster was and in SP Black Widow of all things. Standard "O" series were scale size. A new track system called "Trutrack" created a lot of excitement. Sadly it never made it to the market place. Don

I like MPC, always have. For me, it was often the "postwar" that I could afford. I have found it to be dependable and easy to repair/maintain, the die-castings have no zinc pest, and as has been noted: good up-to-date (for the time) decoration and new roadnames. Best of all, you can still find it at a good price - no $2K shelf-queen engines here!

There were some design issues with Trutrack.  Overall it wasn't structurally robust (read: too flimsy); the aluminum rails, being non-ferrus, rendered Magnetraction useless; is difficult to solder, and if the aluminum oxidizes it would compromise electrical conductivity.  The other issue is that they didn't attempt to offer any operating track sections, so it pretty much died a quick death.

I am only telling my exsprance as a kid.Ever consider some see the worst because they exspraneced the worst?You know I did mention the 736 that I got later on.On how it was way better all around train.I still have it it was the first o gauge I got.Lets not forget how many times lionel was passed around.And my exsprance was some time ago.Mrs Kulich asked a question and I answered it.My friend this is what my story with mpc trains.It not a cheapshot when their is turth to it.Some of other o gauge manufacters have had their own lemons as well.To phase something I seen and heard in a christmas cartoon."You like what you like.And I will like what I like."Goodevening friends! 

Sorry you missed out. Most of the DC sets were cheap little plastic steam engine switchers produced early on. In all the years I collected MPC trains, I hardly ever saw any of them. If you could have gotten one of the other types of MPC sets (which were about 95% of them), you probably would have a different attitude about it. For example, all the MPC Berkshire steam engines were built the same as your 736.

As it is, you bought a Corvair, and then wrote off all of Chevrolet as no good. 

Wow. Jim, I would have loved to have been there!

I remember when a toy store called Ernie's Toyland in Yuba City was in business during the 1970s to early 1980s, one of the most top notch toy stores in Northern California, IMHO.  I always remember seeing their Lionel sets and individual engine/rolling stock items being displayed in a dedicated isle of their store, lot of it was premium (for the time).  Definitely was not all cheapo DC starter sets.

Lionel had almost died when MPC took over. Look at their last real Lionel catalog. A couple of pages and almost the same as the year before. Most of us then couldn't afford the really collectable stuff like FMs, GG1s or even the 6464 box cars even if used. Suddenly we could buy $6.00 box cars and something new and different. None of us ever thought Lionel Trains would pull through at that time. Most thought all we would ever have is the same old used equipment. Don

YES, You are all right as the older kids from the 1950's started making money and seeing the reruns of the Hudsons, J's, aluminum passenger cars in all the different road names, and making available the wide 072 curves, uncouplers, all the old accessories being re-made, it was Super Exciting. I remember the 746 Norfolk Western J being made and I gladly gave $400 for this nice conventional engine. Then came 1984 and the great Saving Purchase by Richard Kughn....Wow, if MPC had not kept the Lionel Name going, We would not have Legacy Today.

You might sum it all up, MPC, Kept the LEGACY of Lionel going Forward into The 21St Century....Centry Clubs and All....WOW, I Love my Lionel Trains...Good Question, and Many Great Answers. Happy Railroading

MPC's best might just be the 4935 GG1 green 5 striper.  No horn, but otherwise, a solid peeze.  Mine runs like crazy, and benefits from the earlier GG1 screw-ups from the mid -'70s !  I always liked the close couple feature of the PW GG1, which all the modern copies lack.  No problemo to fix this issue on  this model.

The high cubes were one of the many new things MPC did. The Mickey Mouse Express set, for example, was stunning, with terrific graphics, unlike anything seen before. The SP Black Widow Train Master was indeed a sharp engine, in a scheme never done in Postwar. Virtually the same as the Postwar versions, the Train Masters had a lot of pulling power with their dual Pullmor motors.

Rerunning the PW stuff wasn't the real contribution MPC made to Lionel:  it was all the new stuff they did.  The U-boats, the chop-nosed Geeps, the Standard O, the building kits, the vastly greater variety of product, the vastly greater decoration (more prototypical, for those who care, than all but a tiny fraction of PW stuff), the toes in the waters of electronics. . . .

Was there cheap, crappy MPC?  You betcha!  Was there cheap, crappy PW?  You BETCHA!  Ever take a gander at the Scout sets???  MPC made nothing worse and few things *that* bad.  My 8020 Alco still runs like a champ after hundreds of hours only only one brush change.

MPC created the field for the modern O gauge situation.

MPC not only saved Lionel, they *improved* Lionel.

I would say 1962 is a far worse year for Lionel than anytime after 1970.  Wasn't the engineering team dismissed in 62...from that point on it was use what they had and make cuts?  MPC had innovators breathing new life into the line.  

The only MPC disappointment was the early DC only starter sets...still cool made in USA product but at the time it didn't lead to any expansion opportunities.  

I just ordered a copy this evening.  Thank you for the information everyone that will help me catch up on what I missed while I was running HO trains!

The TM book referenced here is an eye-opener and really helpful in understanding the PW-MPC transition. A very important historical record of that period.

I have half a dozen of the early to mid 70s starter sets in mint condition. I bought them just in the past two years, and when taken out and set up (lubed first) they ran great. They differ  little from the 1960s PW cheap-o sets made for individual retailers. And they look darn cute zooming around a layout, even today.

While I have lots of other Lionel (PW through current production), these early MPC starter sets played a vital role in keeping O gauge railroading alive way back when, and are still fun to collect and operate today.

I would like to find the MPC Disney set as new old stock.  

I grew up during the MPC era and have a lot of fondness and nostalgia for these trains.  That being said, except for decoration, there was very little new engineering.  I can't think of even ONE MPC-era locomotive that runs better than its best postwar counterpart.  If you want to make an MPC loco run better, remove the shell and put it on a postwar chassis, LOL.

Adriatic: I've heard Marx "Sound-o-power" but what was the other aftermarket "static" steam sound you mentioned in your post?  Are you referring to the Ott system?  (Neither of these were synchronized to the drive rods like the Mighty Sound of Steam.)

Good question and good topic!  -Ted

quote:

I can't think of even ONE MPC-era locomotive that runs better than its best postwar counterpart.

IMHO, the motor truck used in MPC ALCOs is better than the truck used in the 1960's Lionel ALCOs. They used the same basic design in all their diesels. (They certainly weren't as nice as the two piece motor / truck assembly that was used in Postwar Geeps)

MPC also designed the 9090 MiniMax car, and the baby Madison cars.

They made minor improvements to postwar designs here and there.

They're around, but expect to pony up a considerable amount of dough for it, especially if you are also factoring the add-on cars to complete the original set, which includes the 50th Mickey Anniversary, Snow White & Pluto Hi Cube cars which can command high prices even in used but VG condition.

hello guys and gals.............

I had a lot of MPC stuff in the past and I seen many of them cheapened to not have magnet traction and metal gears down to out of round pot metal wheels hollowed out from the back and plastic gears.  Even the horns were plastic where the postwar ones are metal. I loved their very colorful freight cars except the plastic trucks and couplers that was on most of the cars.

Tiffany

Agreed on both counts, but there was also the issue of many diesel drive wheels that came with the mounting hole for the axle slightly off-center, causing considerable wobble.  Many MPC-era diesels were afflicted with that.

I still have a small Hudson with "mighty sound of steam". Ran it last Christmas around the tree. It will be its last year with us as I'm selling most of my older stuff. Don

The lack of Magnetraction in the earlier stages of the General Mills era was that traction tires were meant to replace that (more cost effective plus traction tires, like 'em or hate 'em, have a bigger advantage in regards to traction).  This was another one of those carryover things from the late postwar period.

quote:

Agreed on both counts, but there was also the issue of many diesel drive wheels that came with the mounting hole for the axle slightly off-center, causing considerable wobble.  Many MPC-era diesels were afflicted with that.

I don't know how often off center mounting holes occurred. I haven't really noticed them. Now that I know about it, I'll have to watch for the problem.

After being made aware here, I have noticed that some diesel wheels have flash or a ridge running across the wheel tread in a couple of places, usually hidden under the traction tire. Smoothing away the ridge does help.

How about the Service Station sets:  Canadian Pacific, Milwaukee Road, and Rio Grande F3's, the B&O Buddliners, the M&StL and NP Geeps.  All good runners and good looking.  The F3 sets initially sold for under $100 with 5 cars too.  Rich

Many of the MPC items were hold overs from the Lionel Corp. I have an MPC micro wave tower and the bottom is stamped 199!  People that complain about the lack of magnatraction can easily fix the problem by swapping them out with postwar power trucks. You can also replace MPC armatures with post war ones. I think the service station sets were an example of the great value MPC offered. The diecast steamers such as the N&W J,Hudsons,and Pacifics are all good operating locomotives. Many of the 9700 series boxcars were re runs of the 6464 box cars. 

Here's one - compare the construction of a 634 to a 8010 side-by-side and report back.

Mike W:  FYI, Joe Grzyboski (www.grzyboskitrains.com) has the complete Disney set in "Factory New" condition for sale on his website. Price is $1,295.00

MPC trains were affordable. The fun of MPC was chasing and capturing rare pieces, the manufacturing errors or variations.

Lionel MPCs first attempt at an SD had an oddly modified GP with stubby 6 wheel trucks.  Was this done before Lionel developed the Erie somewhat scale looking SD with 6 wheel type II power trucks?  Are these the same truck?  Or was LTI the first to turn the GP into an SD?