What do you do with these permanent layouts?

You would be surprised how fast those guys can tear down their layouts.

Some are easily moved more than others, while some cannot be moved at all.

Having thought about, talked to several people, and witnessed when someone moved/died:

 

If you do not build your layout with manageable modules, then yes the layout will have to be scrapped.

 

You should plan on what and who will deal with it when you die.

 

There are not that many people that want a pre-built layout (one of the reasons trian stores rarely have them)

 

Often the new location has a different floor pattern ( furnace or duct work )

 

Person is of different height ( ie in a wheel chair)

 

Cant get a piece around a corner in the house to get it out.

 

Total cost is in the range of a new car

 

There are several homes that realtors are trying to sell with built in layouts ( some were even featured in OGR Magazine).

 

I don't like waste but having to throw out the majority of your scenery does not phase some layout owners.

 

They create beautiful scenery ( trees, rocks water ) and then rip it out frequently.

 

Modules aren't as popular in O gauge as it is in N and HO, so there are not many standards to look at, but I would suggest looking into those scales for ideas to import.

 

Build scenery light, and modules small enough to get through a door and into a car.

 

I can't stress enough having a plan for your layout if you expire. I see too often widows trying to deal with a multi thousand dollar layout, that cannot be removed from the home.  The realtor doesn't want to deal with it and the home doesn't show to buyers well.

 

This is one thing that appealed to me about the LCCA fastrack modular ( I was shocked at the cost per module and haven't pursued it ). The module sections were small enough that one person can move.

 

Hope this helps. I have to move frequently and only have a carpet central currently.  Been looking at module ideas.

 

There's a good read about the HO Pennsy Middle Division & Clinchfield N-scale  that were made famous by Model Railroader in the 70's... With the Pennsy, its modules weighed over 100 lbs and was of such length you couldn't really move it without a moving van.  The clinchfield was made with aluminum module frames and pioneered use of foam for scenery ( too keep weight down). With the cost of aluminum right now I shudder thinking about how much those frames would cost today.

 

 

This thread would be good to start about what woodworking tools one should have and module design.

 

 

I've a 24' x 28' layout which could be taken down in a matter of days.  It's 3/4" plywood and Styrofoam screwed to Mianne benchwork.   Cut the wires, Dremel track in strategic locations, unscrew the bench top and the sections would lift off.  The framework comes apart with a screwdriver.  The hardest part would be finding boxes to store everything in.

 

 

I believe the Lionel showroom layout in Mt. Clemens Michigan was bought, split up, and moved to new location. that was a permanent display.

   My layout is predominately 2x8 foot sections and scenery is separate foam modules. I could sell all or part. 22x36

 

Clem 

Starting over in many instances is commonplace. Job relocation, downsizing and many other reasons may necessitate this.

 

The good news is that we all learn from our previous layout building experiences, so all is not lost.

I knew of a guy who built a massive HO layout, and almost the day after he was done with the wiring, he found he had to move to another part of the country. He only had one op session on it, after 3 years of work, before he tore it all down. He never rebuilt it again after he moved, I was told, because he was so worn out from the original build of a layout he was sure he was going to grow old with. I never forgot that.

I built mine in sections which are bolted together. Once the scenery is in place, if I ever have to move, I just will need to cut through the scenery where the sections meet, clip and label bus wires, dremel the track in a few places, and then take it all out of the room. Even the legs are held in place with carriage bolts, which could be removed in minutes.

Doing so meant that it's not the most sturdy bench work ever because if you wiggle one end, the entire layout wiggles, but at least I won't wanna kill myself if my employer moves me somewhere else someday. The only majory regret I have now is not using thicj enough plywood for the table top. I now wish I'd used about 3/4" plywood as I have to reinforce the blue point turnout controllers that will soon be going underneath the benchwork. I got so hung up on modular construction I forgot that it doesn't need to be easily moved, just moved. I built it with 1X4s and 1/4" plywood. The plywood is more than strong enough for the lightweight scenery I'll be putting on top of it, but I do wish I'd used something thicker there to provide a more sturdy base for the blue points.

Here's the benchwork set up on my back deck, just before I stalled it into the room in August:

Mianne or at least modular seems the way to build if you are concerned about the future of your layout.

 

I just build 'em and wreck 'em.

It's with this canundrum that I switched to modular layout design. At least one can move a 2'x4'section after unplugging the wiring.

I think some people actually like doing this, it gives them an opportunity to build a new layout. Some folks like building the layout as much as running the trains on them.

 

As others have said, some can be moved and some can not and must be torn down. And there are probably even some that could be  moved, but get torn down anyway so the owner can start over. I won't be moving again (hopefully anyway), but I am using Mianne bench work so it can be easily dis-mantled, removed, sold or whatever, when I am gone.

 

 

quote:

This is one thing that appealed to me about the LCCA fastrack modular ( I was shocked at the cost per module and haven't pursued it ). The module sections were small enough that one person can move.

 

You might want to look at Tinplate Trackers. It's an older modular standard, based on traditional "O" gauge track. If you don't want to interconnect with anyone, then you don't need a standard at all.

I had a couple of tinplate tracker modules, but eventually gave them up. The concept was better than the implementation for me. The size and specifications (track placement) were too rigid. My layouts are based on independent tables, bolted together.

Not sure what the question is trying to get at...if the layout is permanent, then when the time comes for it to not be permanent, it is dismantled in one way or another...

 

Alan

Not completely on topic but an interesting side note.

 

One of the most frequent questions asked when people visit us during our open house is "how long does it take you to set this up every year".

 

Another one is "where will you be bringing the layout display next"

Mines going to come apart with a screwdriver, a sawzall and a dumpster. Screw driver to remove accessories and the sawzall for all the rest.  

My attic layout is built in a modular fashion. It was done for several reasons.

 

• Since I'm in a modular train club, that's the style of construction I'm most comfortable with. 
• The layout is up in the attic. It made it much easier to pre-assemble and carry it up in pieces.
• It's all bolted and screwed together. When it has to come down, it should make the process much simpler.

As for "future" reassembly, as long as the space is 14' x 39' it shouldn't be an issue. Candidly, I think that is too much to expect.

 

Gilly

 

As the custodian of the original TinPlate Tracker standards, I can tell you that it was very rigid at the time to ensure interoperability between modules. I have to admit that at almost 30 years old it is pretty dated since it was designed for the O gauge track that existed and was readily available back in 1984-1985.

 

Modernly, the standard I'd like to see embraced in O scale, but it isn't really practical is Free-Mo. Problem is that it's too space-consuming for use with 2-rail curve requirements for larger equipment (it would work for 36" radius/O-72).

 

As for my layout plans, I'm going sectional because of my planned relocation to Texas. Plan to start with a switching layout which can be integrated into something larger if/when space is found.

Remove trains-Remove track(pack in boxes)-SAWZALL-DUMPSTER.Nick

EXACTLY!  I'm sure that is what will be done to our layout when I'm gone.

Interesting topic.  I know Eric well and have routinely assisted him with his open houses.  Other than the portion of his layout in the main room, the rest would likely have to be scrapped, although structures and bridges could probably be salvaged.  Eric's biggest job will eventually be having to repair the holes in the walls where his railroad passes from one room to another.  I suspect most realtors would advise the layout must come down and the walls be repaired before the house could be shown.

In my immediate case, I built my layout with job relocation in mind and it has now made three moves with us.

During this year's NMRA Piedmont Division home layout tour here in Atlanta, I talked with one basement size HO layout owner who was on the tour for the first time.  His layout was beautifully sceniced with many custom built structures and bridges.  He told me the partially completed layout was already in the basement when he and his wife bought the house several years ago.

Up until that point, he had never had any interest in trains generally or model railroading specifically.  His principal hobbies were landscape gardening and collecting art.  He told me he found the notion of model railroading to be an extension of his other principal areas of interest and that he could either decide to like trains and finish the layout or scrap it and use the space for something else.  Having seen the finished layout I am glad he decided to like trains.  ��

Probably not the most common entry into the hobby but, in the long run it worked.

Curt

I build my layouts using the L-girder framework and a torque-less power screw driver.  Nails are never used and glue is used only in problem areas.  When it comes time to move or just redesign, remover buildings, track and screws.  Almost all of the girders, beams, uprights and cross braces can then be used again.  Good wood (and I would only use good wood on a layout) is too valuable to be cut-up and thrown in a dumpster.

 

 

There is no such thing as a permanent layout.

 

Happy railroading,

Don

I had two layouts in my last house that were both large and when I had to move I just removed the trains,buildings, etc. Left the track on and disposed of it. 

 

I then turned a sawzall  loose and cut up the layout. Threw in a dumpster and never looked back. Took about two weeks off and on, after work and on the weekends.

The thing is, not everyone can destroy a layout than just build a new one. They either don't have the time, money, or spousal patience to build another one if they have to move. And some people don't really enjoy building a layout more than they do running or simply tinkering with one. I'm certain I fall under the latter in this case. I don't enjoy building a layout very much at all but I'm sure I'll enjoy running it once I'm at a place where I can have op sessions.

And I know for sure if I trashed my layout to start over, my wife certainly put the brakes on that train really quick. I can hear it now, at full volume: "WHAT DO YOU MEAN YOU'RE STARTING OVER?!? You did all that work AND IT'S GOING INTO THE DUMPTER?!? No way you're going through all that from the ground up again!"

At least with a modular concept, if you wanna start over, you can of course. But at least you have the option to do so either way.

They moved Tom Snyder's layout across the country...anything is possible!

 

Jeff Davis

BNSFTRAINS I'm beginning to think you're just a troll. Look at all the topics you have started for discussion purposes that mean nothing! They are all opinion based questions anyway?

 

Is that your hobby? Or is it model trains?

 

How is it of your concern why we build permanent layouts? Are you actually planning on building a layout? From all of your meaningless posts...... I seriously doubt it!

 

I am confused as to your purpose on this forum.

I don't think this ones going anywhere anytime soon...

Mathew

I certainly hope not Matt !

I agree, absolutely correct. Also no such thing as a finished layout.

 

Gilly,

You have posted some really nice carpentry work, you have real talent in that area for sure.

+1!!!!!

quote:

As the custodian of the original TinPlate Tracker standards, I can tell you that it was very rigid at the time to ensure interoperability between modules. I have to admit that at almost 30 years old it is pretty dated since it was designed for the O gauge track that existed and was readily available back in 1984-1985.

 

I understand and endorse the need for rigidity to ensure interoperability. But I don't interoperate.
I don't see Tinplate tracker standards as being too out of date.

There are plenty of people still using traditional "O" gauge track.
Once nice thing about tinplate tracker standards was the AFFORDABILITY of all the materials required to build each table. The bridge sections let people get away with minor imperfections in their track placement. No need for jigs.

It is what it is, my layout looks permanent, but all the bench work is screwed or bolted together, no nails. All the track is screwed down. No permanent fasteners. The layout went through a major move in 1998 and into storage as I built the basement it is now located. The house was built in 1936, put on an addition with a 550 foot square, basement.

 

I am retired and my attic layout is not built to be moved.  It will be torn down and just about everything I have will be sold before our next move which will be in the next 5 to 10 years.  My wife and I plan that our next move will be to a retirement community and to a much smaller home in that time frame. 

 

I suppose that my wife will be stuck with it if something happens to me before we move.  We all have plans and life laughs.   I plan to run and enjoy the layout for as long as possible.   

 

Joe  

     The one that I built in the old house I just tore it completely apart and brought the 2x4s and 4x8 sheets to the new house. I rebuilt with that wood and some new stuff and went from A 12' by 17' to A 19' to A 24' layout. The only problem is (I live with my parents because I am Temp. disabled ) my sister has legal say in the household and she hates the train layout. My parents are 73 and 75 years old and I have ben told that when the last one of them dies I have 24 hrs. to vacate the house. Watch how fast A train layout can be taken down! Choo Choo Kenny