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I recently started a topic on semi-scale Madison cars. I received some good replies and I thought I had all the information I needed to make a well-thought out purchase. I'm working on recreating a CP holiday train as a long term project, and the only semi-scale heavyweight cars in the CP maroon colors I could find are MTH 60 ft Madison cars. They come as a 4 car set listed as baggage, 2 coach, observation on the MTH web site and catalog, but you really can't see much as the photos are microscopic. About all you can see is that the observation car looks different than the other cars. Using the MTH product locator, one dealer had the set and I was able to order the last one in stock.

I was quite surprised when I received the package and opened it to find a car with numerous closed in windows instead of an open platform on the back of the "observation car". Although the MTH website and catalog state the set has an observation car, the box calls it a solarium car (hence all the windows). What is a solarium car? I've never heard of these cars before. Why would MTH have a solarium car instead of an observation car in the first place, let alone call it an observation car on the web site/catalog? At least for me, the open platform on the rear of the observation car is one of the neat features of heavyweight cars, and I'm planning on having Santa waving on the platform at the back of my recreated holiday train. It's not quite the same effect if Santa is waving out the window of the solarium car.

I wish someone had mentioned the funky solarium cars when I had the topic about semi-scale madison cars, but I guess if I don't know the right questions to ask, I can't expect the right answers. I don't live near any hobby shops where I could look at them. I like to research and see pictures before making purchases, but I searched and was unable to find any photos of the MTH 60 ft Madison cars, so I was pretty much going off the catalog description. Big mistake on my part. I'm not very happy with MTH for the misleading catalog description and the lack of photos or drawings on their website to adequately illustrate the product.

Now that I have ranted, I have a few options. I contacted the hobby shop, and although they didn't sound happy, they will let me return the set. I'm a little reluctant to do that for a few reasons. One, it is a smaller store. The dealer hasn't done anything wrong and if I return the set, I'm making my problem his problem. Also, if I return it and order a different car set as a replacement, I'm racking up quite a shipping bill.

As I mentioned, these cars are the only ones with the correct color scheme. The next closest are probably PRR Madison cars in tuscan. I could go MTH O-27 or Williams 60 ft in PRR tuscan. But then I'd either have the CP PRR Holiday Train and the reddish color wouldn't quite be right, or have to try and repaint the body of the cars (wouldn't need to paint the tops), and repainting the lettering in gold would be a challenge.

I'm considering trying to kit bash the solarium car. I could 1)leave the roof the same, 2) cut the rear wall of the car off, 3) cut the side walls of the car back the distance of one window, 4) glue the rear wall back in the new position, 5) glue an awning around the existing roof which is now an overhang, 6) add a deck on top of the existing car bottom that now protrudes, and 7) cut off the ladders and add stairs, and make safety railings and add the railings around the new open platform.

I don't have much experience kit bashing at this point, but I plan to add mini Christmas lights and assorted objects to the various cars to look like the real CP holiday train, so I'm going to be messing with the cars anyway. The Christmas lights would even help cover up the new seam between the rear and side walls. I've been looking at the photos from CandO's Polar Express observation car modifications, and they are inspiring. What I am picturing is probably easier to do. It would so much easier if MTH had actually put an observation car in the set.

So, thanks for letting me rant. If anyone knows what a solarium car is, feel free to expound, and if you have any hints or tips for the kit bashing project, such as sources for steps, railings, awnings, etc.
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A solarium is a type of observation car.

From Railroad Model Craftsman:

As passenger train speeds increased and air conditioning became more prevalent, the traditional open platform observation car began to lose favor as patrons sought more comfort and safety, and the railroads sought space that was usable in both fair and foul weather. Pullman's answer was the sun room or solarium observation car. While some sun room cars were built in the wooden car era, they began to be constructed in greater numbers in the later 1920's.

Jim
I think your right by not returning the set. Not only is it unfair to the dealer but you hurt yourself with shipping and restock charges for no logical reason. After all it is a really neat set and you may learn to like the solarium car.
But, that said if your heart is set on a open porch observation car why not have the dealer sell you one of any road color that works and send it off to one of the people on our site who do repaint work. You may have to send them the solarium car so as to properly match the color, but I'm sure a good painter would have no trouble providing you with what you wont.

Where there is a will there is a way! Cool
Not sure that I can add to the descriptions above, on solarium cars, but I can tell you that they were one great way to travel. Almost all streamlined/lightweight designed observation cars were solariums, and I recall sitting back there, enjoying an adult beverage, watching the miles disappear behind me. Of particular pleasure was riding the California Zephyr when it was still operated by the three railroads.

I also rode a heavyweight solarium, but there was evidence that this car had been built by enclosing the rear platform of an open observation. At first I thought that this was sacrilege until I realized that I would not have been enjoying that view from an open car because it was in the middle of the winter!

There are a few open platform streamlined cars, but most of those were in private or business car service.

Paul Fischer
When I was a kid I lived next to the New York Central main line and watched many passenger trains pass by, Not one of them had an observation car. I was in my early 20s and returning home from a late night date when I caught the 20th Century at a grade crossing, That was the only time I saw an observation car on a Central train.
O gaugers, myself included, tend to run passenger trains that look like publicity photos. The truth is most postwar passenger trains had heavyweight head end cars, sometimes a mixture of stainless, smoothside, and modernized heavyweights in the rest of the consist, some with earlier paint schemes. Many times they would have cars with foreign road names for a connecting train.
From a friend that is in the 1:1 equipment ownership world...

A solarium was much more practical than the heavyweight and some lightweight cars at the time of construction. Why? It could be mounted mid-train if need be with the additon of a diaprham and walkway equipment.

Also, while many have ideas of riding on the back of an open-end observation as a train bombs down the track, he quickly reminded me of why one gets a "salty taste" on their lips after a few miles! Eek

Somewhere I have some CP passenger car books, if you want to know more about specific CP cars, I can dig...
Thanks for the additional info. This has been a good learning experience. I can see how in the real world, the solarium car would be more useful and comfortable, particularly with the use of air conditioning.

I can also see the MTH solarium cars might be a neat addition to the passenger fleets of hobbyists for something different than a heavyweight observation car with an open platform. In my particular case, I'm looking for the open platform to recreate the CP Holiday Train.

Jim Policastro has an article in the January OGR magazine about modifying cars. He makes it look easy. At some point, I think I'm going to try and modify my observation car to an open platform, but I need to work on a few small projects and build my knowledge and skills before I attempt it.

kling.klang, thanks for the offer of the CP car info, but I don't think I'll need it. The passenger cars on the CP Holiday Train are actually business cars and some, if not all of the cars, are part of the Royal Canadian Pacific operation. I've been able to find some info on them. My model trains are all traditional scale types, so the MTH 60 ft. Madison cars are in the proper paint scheme and close enough for me to recreate the CP Holiday Train. I just want the open platform rather than a solarium so I can have Santa Claus standing on the rear platform like he was on the Strathcona car when I saw the train departing from Steamtown.
I also have a set of these cars in Black Santa Fe, several years old but only ran them twice. I received them as a gift, but look way out of place on 0-27 layout. At the time I really wanted and finaly got the Lionel 0-27 Madison cars look much better on layout. I would really like to get rid of the MTH set, they have been packed away in a box wrapped in tissue paper for a couple of years now.

And then... if you jump forward a couple of decades to the early streamliner era, here's the Milwaukee Road Cedar Rapids skytop solarium observation (inside-looking-out view) in a luxury class all to its own!  Now THIS is riding in style...

 

 

I stumbled across this image recently while doing some research on Lionel's Milwaukee Road Northern S-3 locomotive, which I finally found at a not-so-local LHS , albeit I took delivery of #267.  The above image comes from the www.261.com website, in reference to the #261 excursion train running today.  SWEET!!!

 

David

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