SF 3751 hasn't been on any mainline excursions in awhile.
SP 4449 too.
Why?
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While I can't answer the "why" question (although I suspect it involves the $$$, willingness of the railroads to allow them to run, and a ton of other issues), I'm following the 4449 closely. I've wanted to see and ride that engine since I was about 4 or 5 years old and have finally made my mind that the next main line excursion trip it does, I'm going to do my best to fly west and ride it.
First, AT&SF 3751 is located in a VERY busy portion of the BNSF, and thus it is VERY difficult for sponsors to organize and pay for excursions through Amtrak.
Second, SP 4449 completed her FRA mandated 15 year boiler inspections last year, and the organization has decided to NOT schedule/announce any main line excursions under Amtrak. Maybe next year?
Why does Amtrak play such a big role?
SJC posted:While I can't answer the "why" question (although I suspect it involves the $$$, willingness of the railroads to allow them to run, and a ton of other issues), I'm following the 4449 closely. I've wanted to see and ride that engine since I was about 4 or 5 years old and have finally made my mind that the next main line excursion trip it does, I'm going to do my best to fly west and ride it.
From the Trains News Wire on Nov. 21:
PORTLAND, Ore. — Southern Pacific 4-8-4 No. 4449 will be fired up this week to lead the first of more than five dozen Holiday Express trips over the next month. The annual excursions organized by the Oregon Rail Heritage Foundation operate on the Oregon Pacific’s route along Portland’s Oaks Park.
SP No. 4449 caretaker Doyle McCormack tells Trains News Wire that the locomotive — built by Lima in 1941 — will be fired up on Tuesday or Wednesday in time for the first runs on Friday. The locomotive will lead at least eight trips a day every Saturday and Sunday until Dec. 18, with the exception of the first weekend when trips will only be run on Friday, Nov. 25, and Saturday, Nov. 26.
Yes 4449 has been running this year. They are short excursions called the "Holiday Express" but she is out and running.
All are sold out of course. 
Railroads that joined Amtrak to get out of running their own passenger service gave up the right to operate passenger trains themselves.
Amtrak is the government take over of American Passenger trains, many passenger steam engines have been insured by their larger policy, and there are the ever more strict rules for main lines after the oil train crashes and explosions.
One has to wonder if Amtrak will be easier to work with for steam operators with Mr. Moorman, a steam excursion fan at the helm.
With the exception of the Northeast Corridor, Amtrak doesn't own the tracks underneath the trains, so they still need the approval from the railroads that own the tracks for steam extras.
Rusty
I understand that, but it is also my understanding that Amtrak's red tape makes it more difficult to plan and get approval for excursions than it needs to be. Remember that the FWRHS trip to Galesburg last year ended up getting scrubbed because it took so long to get all the ducks in a row that they simply ran out of time to sell enough tickets to make the trip feasible. My guess that since Mr. Moorman is INTIMATELY familiar with the capabilities of groups such as the FWRHS and the 611 gang, that approvals might get expedited in the future. Just a guess.
pennytrains posted:Why does Amtrak play such a big role?
As previously mentioned, the class one railroads are prohibited by law from sell tickets for "passengers" to ride their trains, steam or diesel powered. Thus, when any excursion is proposed, a sponsoring organization must provide a passenger train consist and motive power, then obtain permission from the host railroad, and THEN work out a contract with Amtrak. The biggest factor in all of this is the liability insurance, so operating under the Amtrak liability insurance coverage satisfies the host railroad.
Now, if an organization has VERY deep pockets, and desires to provide their own liability insurance, i.e. NOT under Amtrak, then they must pay for an insurance policy to cover AT LEAST $750,000,000 liability coverage! Yes, that is 750 MILLION DOLLARS! Such an insurance policy is well over $100,000 for the annual premium.
Everything mentioned above is a big obstacle to mainline excursions but another huge expense is the deadheading and rental cost of suitable passenger cars, whether Amtrak or privately owned. The deadheading cost is staggering. And if you go from say, 3 revenue days and have to cancel one revenue day- your deadhead cost per day just shot up by 50%. Based on the AAPRCO web site, it seems there are few Amtrak approved cars based in the Pacific Northwest. If there are some suitable cars in the Bay Area, you still have a 700 mile deadhead. If you go to LA, you have a 1100 mile deadhead. At over $2 per mile per car, the sponsoring organization has the very real risk of bankrupting themselves.
OK, UP does have one paying passenger train a year, the train from Denver to the Frontier Days. How does UP get around the inter city passenger law?
Dominic Mazoch posted:OK, UP does have one paying passenger train a year, the train from Denver to the Frontier Days. How does UP get around the inter city passenger law?
The UP does NOT get around that "Amtrak Law". The entire Frontier Days Special is LEASED by the Denver Post newspaper and THEY sell all the tickets. Just like any other excursion on the UP when tickets are sold to the public, then the train is leased by some other organization, such as LCCA, NRHS, etc., who are then selling all the tickets.
Ai Yi Yi! What a complicated mess! I don't envy you guys that set up excursion schedules!
