What is the best 3D printer to buy, without getting carried away?

I've been really happy with my Ender V3. Bought it on Amazon for $180 if I remember right. Took my time putting it together and it has been great. I did upgrade the table springs but that was only a few bucks.

I have the Ender 3 Pro.  It's a very decent entry level 'Filament' printer.  I have maybe 200 hrs on it... no problems.  The Ender 3 Pro, with a spool of filament (kilogram), shipping and tax... you should be able to get it into the house for under 250.00.   (printer 180, filament 20, tax 20, shipping 30).

If you want to print little people or very small highly detailed delicate parts you probably want a Resin printer.  The Elegoo Mars (small) or Saturn (larger)... will run 250 (Mars) to 550 (Saturn) including resin, washes, tax & shipping.  The Saturn 2 should come in at around 750.00 <-- This is a Very Nice 8K Machine.   (I would only consider resin printers where you can use a 'water wash').  Always ask what the cost of materials and other 'incidentals' are when folks tell you how much the machine is.

There are many other 3D printers out there... I'm sure folks will be chiming in.

If you haven't looked at this page... https://3d.ogaugerr.com/printing101/ ...give it a look and start using TinkerCad for free while you are scoping out 3D printers.

mine's way too expensive and

you would need the larger way way more expensive version to print a ship.

printed on a FormLabs3L printer.

Alan, how big is that ship?

Just out of curiousity, how much does a machine like that cost? (I am obviously not thinking of buying one). Rather it is to see relative prices, what are now home machines cost a lot of money at one point

Earlier this year I started researching printers and it was a learning curve to say the least.  Since I was interested in very good detail for a long time I only looked at resin printers, but eventually changed my mind and obtained one of the new Elegoo Neptune 3 (which was less than $200).  The reason I selected PLA over Resin was not just the cost, but the safety environmental issues and the potential mess with resin.

I found the PLA printer does fine enough detail for everything I've tried, and for various tools and jigs PLA is supposed to create a stronger print than resin.   The new Elegoo has a lot of updated features such as self leveling bed which is important along with being very quiet and no bad odors.  Also PLA is rather inexpensive and available in a multitude of colors.  The biggest challenge was learning 3D software so I followed advice I read here on OGR and started a free online Tinkercad account which I still use since it is so simple to create many everyday items.

-Mike in NC,

600mm in length.  (Great for engine shells)

this was done in March of 2021;

it's one of the first prints posted in the FL Forum done with the FormLabs 3L printer (Cost $11,000)

Note the support points on the build plate that are very small.

the model is removed from the build plate with a simple hand twist that breaks the support points off with no marks left on the model shell.

What would the cost of printing one of those be if you had the printer.  I'm talking about the materials necessary to feed the printer, your out of pocket costs to create one engine shell.  I'm assuming it's also somewhat time consuming!

So I contacted ALLONSCALE (Netherlands) to ask that question for a model I had.

In April of last year the cost  for this

was

$250 for the roof and front shell  (not the sides)

$  53 VAT

$  18 shipping

$321 total for each shell

I have a Prusa filament printer and it has worked very well and has been reliable.  Level of detail in the output is useful to me.  This is direct purchase from Europe and at the higher end of the price range that we have been discussing.  Ordered during Covid, but received quickly.  They make their own filament too, though you can use other brands.

@AlanRail posted:

So I contacted ALLONSCALE (Netherlands) to ask that question for a model I had.

In April of last year the cost  for this was

$250 for the roof and front shell  (not the sides)

$  53 VAT

$  18 shipping

$321 total for each shell

I was actually asking how much the materials would cost if you had the printer.  I figured it would be pricey to have someone print this.

@gunrunnerjohn posted:

Alan, how big is that ship?

Sounds kinda personal there John!

@Dennis-LaRock posted:

Sounds kinda personal there John!

Well, I could have asked a more personal question...   How big is your... OK, that's enough of that!

cost of materials(and printing)  for my model  from ALLONSCALE was $1 per ml of resin, so for $250

my model plus supports was 250ml of resin.

FL resin cost is $150 per litre.

so 1/4 of $150  is $37.50 would be the actual resin cost for the model,

And, for further cost analysis... Filament, depending on Type and Manufacturer is around 18.00 - 25.00 per spool (1 kilogram/2.2 pounds).

Just curious if you had the printer how cost effective it would be to print the shell.  Not too bad, but I'll bet it's time consuming for something that big.

@AlanRail posted:

So I contacted ALLONSCALE (Netherlands) to ask that question for a model I had.

In April of last year the cost  for this was

$250 for the roof and front shell  (not the sides)

$  53 VAT

$  18 shipping

$321 total for each shell

I know it's only a portion of the total, but why are they charging VAT?  That shouldn't apply unless you're in the EU.

I brought my Prusa type 3d printer off craigslist.

It was a customer build kit kit that sells for about $100 on Ebay.

I had to replaced the power supply soon after purchase, but it worked when I got it.

The nice thing is all the parts are off the shelf and open sourced.

Parts are cheap and anyways available online.

Avoid non-open sourced models as parts can be pricey and hard to find.

I purchased an Anet A8 on ebay, i think it is a knock off of a Pursa.  About $150 at the time.   Over three years I had to replace a few parts but nothing expensive.  The key to getting good prints is to have the bed level.  It does not have auto bed leveling but it is very easy to do.  I have been able to print small parts, parts of bridges, models of prime movers building fronts and lots of other things.    I usually find HO or G gauge models online and scale them to 1/48.   The spools of PLA are inexpensive and lots of colors to choose from.  One of the best investments I have made for my train hobby.

Marty

3D Printers are all over the place.  It varies by features and what your skill level is to be able to dial them in.  I chose to spend a little more on the Prusa.  Couple of reasons.  Super reliable prints, auto calibration (no manual leveling of bed).  Incredible product support including a website and club to not only help you learn but be part of a group to share projects, files, etc.  They also give you a 3D printing course when you buy one of their printers to understand all the aspects about 3D printing (settings, material types, calibration, etc.)

Great software, that is updated continually with new features.  Their whole business is about 3D Printer's (the people).

I have printed some incredible pieces with my Prusa and once it was setup it has been rock solid.  Prusa is known as one of the top printers in the 3D community.

But yes, it was 1000.00.  Worth every penny for me.

I have seen some guys get super frustrated with failed prints on cheaper models because they did not have the skillset to set them up correctly and they had no support for the manufacturer.

You can get satisfactory prints for a cheaper model, but you need to learn how to set them up correctly.  I have seen prints that were pretty sloppy that people thought were good.  The ultimate print is when it is a super clean print with very little post processing needed.

If you are on a budget, certainly go for it.  Just be patient as you learn how to dial the printer in and go to YouTube to watch as many videos as you can.  There are some fantastic tutorials on 3D printing out there.

I purchased an MK3 printer kit from Prusa a while back, took a few days to build but worked perfectly  and still does after over 2,800 hours of printing. I started with PLA and then switched to PETG which is all I use now.  I do sell a couple lines of products so do need something dependable. As a back up printer I purchased the Prusa Mini which was half the cost of my MK3 and yet performs very well.

One of the largest models built was of a replica of the Hotel Charles which had to be made in many pieces but because it is CAD designed all parts fitted together perfectly.

When the U.S. person is using EU services from the U.S., VAT (value added Tax) is often charged, but there are tax treaties between the U.S. and these foreign countries that can make the VAT refundable.

@Dennis-LaRock posted:

I have the Ender 3 Pro.  It's a very decent entry level 'Filament' printer.  I have maybe 200 hrs on it... no problems.  The Ender 3 Pro, with a spool of filament (kilogram), shipping and tax... you should be able to get it into the house for under 250.00.   (printer 180, filament 20, tax 20, shipping 30).

If you want to print little people or very small highly detailed delicate parts you probably want a Resin printer.  The Elegoo Mars (small) or Saturn (larger)... will run 250 (Mars) to 550 (Saturn) including resin, washes, tax & shipping.  The Saturn 2 should come in at around 750.00 <-- This is a Very Nice 8K Machine.   (I would only consider resin printers where you can use a 'water wash').  Always ask what the cost of materials and other 'incidentals' are when folks tell you how much the machine is.

There are many other 3D printers out there... I'm sure folks will be chiming in.

If you haven't looked at this page... https://3d.ogaugerr.com/printing101/ ...give it a look and start using TinkerCad for free while you are scoping out 3D printers.

Dennis,

Thanks.  I did poke around the Forum trying to figure it all out.  There are so many different models, but it seems like everyone likes the Ender 3.    I've never even heard of a resin printer, but wow I watch the video of the Saturn 2 and I was definitely impressed!!  I have visions of printing riveted girders and my own rolling stock!!  Guess I wash more research to do.  Is there a down side to resin besides the cost?

Thanks again,

Andy

The resin fumes are very bad for your health.

A young couple in Berkeley may have be killed by their 3d printer fumes while they sleep, per city inspectors.

They should be in a well vented room or under a fume hood vented outside.

Some people put video cameras on them to watch for problems remotely.

I plan to set my resin printer up in a detached carport garage with a cam watching it.

Wishing All good luck with their units.

I really like my Prusa printer.  Spare parts can be ordered on line and are reasonably priced.  Prusa also provides upgrades.

Carl

Prusa printers are great. I'm hoping the Anker M5 is rock solid, but they just started shipping them. The test models (sent to reviewers) were really good and really fast.

Resin fumes are very toxic.  Epoxy is a form of resin, and if you have ever worked with it you know it puts out fumes , or working with fiberglass repair. If you use a resin printer and are working in a room, do yourself a favor and at least have a vent fan in an open window to get airflow to outside and have the printer installed next to it, along with a room air cleaner . Even better if you have an enclosure with an outside exhaust fan and a hepa or better filter to trap particulates that are put out.

Even a filament printer needs good ventilation, and depending on the other filament material may need a hood/external fan/filter combo. PLA, which is a common material, is relatively safe in terms of VOCs and the like based on what I have read,  but no one knows if long term exposure is totally harmless. From what I have read having an open widow and a vent fan near the printer and a small air cleaner works well to keep the air clean in the rom.

ABS and Nylon are like resin, they put out potentially toxic fumes and particulates. If you don't have an enclosure with an external vent/fan/filter, the open window and vent fan w an air cleaner may work well.

I must say, That I appreciate all the posts so far. It's great to read up on this stuff. Sooner or later, I'll dive in too.

Filament/extrusion,  single filament $200 to $4000  Hobby grade.   Business grade, $3500 to $100K.

Multi-filament for colors.   Add $500.  Note this is low end color mixing.  These take skills to keep working well from my experience.

Filament about $30 a kilogram spool.    Various filaments.   Some need to be vented.   Hopefully new ones will replace the need for some of the first generation filaments that put off bad fumes.

liquid resin $1000 and up,  how much do you want to spend.

Metal fusion.  (business)  around $1,000,000 was the cost of the last one at work.

If you extrusion print  a couple of materials and a few colors, learning curve is not too bad.   Multi color, multiple materials, how much time do you have?

My next target is over a year away Prusa XL with 5 head changer.  Mix colors, nozzle size and possibly filaments.  This is when multi colors could be "trouble free", just $3500. 

3d resin laser printing started in the 1980's.  We had some of the first machines at work.  3D printing with many variations grew as a special business for many years.   Hobbiest have helped the recent boom.   Most of the machines, even business ones are still "hobby grade"  in my opinion. Still learning on software/slicers and materials.  Software and new material technology are a bottleneck.   I have been watching what has been in business for years trickle out in the hobby.    Recently saw resin for hobbiests that can be used for "lost wax" casting.  Aimed at jewelry and the like.  I saw it pioneered in business 30 years ago. 

In the 1990's Ford even had a paper machine. put down a layer, laser and remove unwanted pieces, put down next layer and on until done.  It was good for Sand Casting patterns and they would work for up to 100 uses.

Thanks everyone!!! So many comments, it's hard to reply to everyone.  I had no idea there was so many choices.  I starting watching YouTube videos on both Filament and Resin Printers.  The Detail on the Resin is incredible.  It seems like the perfect printer for the Dungeons & Dragons Hobbyists would need.  And I wouldn't mind printing some highly detailed chess pieces, but that looks like a lot of extra work, hazards, and mess compared to the Filament.  The detail may not be as clear, but generally you aren't that close to tell the difference.   

So far I liked the reviews on the Prusa MK3 printer kit.  I definitely need to start making some buildings.

Thanks again!

Captain Andy's 3 Rail O-Scale Layout

https://youtube.com/channel/UCCrzhXG0P8r3c0ALaRNeXjQ

You'll get rich as everyone adds their 2 cents to this topic.  So here's another 2 cents.

We have both filament and resin printers, 4 and 7, respectively.  Their capabilities and initial cost range from a couple hundred dollars to a thousand.  The first printer was a Dremel 3D45 filament printer (intended for classroom use) and is bulletproof.  But would be consider expensive today for what you get.  The next was an entry-level, small format Anycubic resin printer.  Together they produced this.

The barrels and flat cars were printed in multiple pieces on the Dremel while the clamps (light gray) were printed in resin for the detail.  The barrels were printed in three parts that slip together.  The flat cars is two pieces bolted together.  The original unmodified STL file was created by Paul Hofecker (Professorburnout).

It should be noted that there are two types of resin printer; SLA and MSLA.  SLA (stereolithography) uses a scanning UV laser to expose the resin while a MSLA (masked) uses a LCD screen (think TV) to block UV light from reaching and exposing the resin.  Cost is the big factor here.  SLA (like the FormLab printer Alan uses) is initially much more expensive than an MSLA.  I don't know the maintenance costs of the laser and scanning mechanisms of SLA,, but MSLA will eventually require replacement of the LCD screen.  SLA printers are about an order-of-magnitude more expensive than an MSLA.  For a hobbyist, an MSLA printer is probably the better choice.

The flatcar has since been printed as a single piece on a Elegoo Saturn resin printer.  It has a larger print area, but the model still had to be inclined to fit.

Neither resin or filament printers can print overhangs without supports like shown here without supports.  My experience gives the advantage to resin with the ease of removal of the supports and and their impact on the finish impact of the model.  The dangers of resin have already been state by others, and I'll reinforce it.

The time it takes to print a model varies between the two technologies.  The volume of the model determines how long it takes a filament printer to print while the height determines it for the MSLA resin printer.   The reason is the filament printer must trace out each voxel in each layer to deposit the plastic while the inexpensive MSLA printer prints an entire layer in one shot.  As an illustration, if you double the size of a model the time it takes a filament printer to pint goes up by a factor of eight while the MSLA print the time only doubles. The SLA printer falls in between.

Resin printers have much better resolution than filament printers.  My Mars has a layer thickness and pixel width of 0.01 mm and 0.035 mm respectively.  My Neptune has about 0.1 mm layer height(or larger)  and a rough pixel size equal to the nozzle diameter (0.2 to 1.0 mm with 0.4 mm typical).  The finish on a resin print is smoother than one printed in filament.  Filament prints usually require some sanding/filling to get a smooth surface.  Resin prints can have the same problem, but with their higher resolution and anti-aliasing will minimize it.  Proper orientation can reduce the issue for both.  Resolution is the biggest factor here.

There are two oblivious printer specification two consider when you are buying a printer, resolution (resin) and print volume (filament).  The former is driven by the quality that you desire and the latter is driven by the size.  Both have been mentioned by other posters.  Both drive the price of the hardware.

Material costs are not really a factor in choosing a printer technology.  Excluding propriety products the cost per kilogram of resin and filament of essentially the same, $30/kg.  You will pay more for products that have special properties: strength, coloring, flexibility, and transparency.

Buying a printer is only solves half the problem of making models.  The other half is buying/designing the model and converting it to a printable form.  The latter involves the slicing of the model using software (basic version of a commercial package)  provided by the printer maker.  Pre-built models are available free or for purchase at several on-line sites including OGR Forum.  All have some restriction on their use.  However, if you must design your own models you;ll need to learn some sort of CAD (computer-aided design) software.  You'll find that there are plenty out there to choose,  From very simple (Onshape and free) to professional (some have limited versions for free).  I use FreeCAD because it is free, and I didn't know enough of what was available.  FreeCAD has a learning curve, but  the right YouTube channel will help a lot.  If you are interested in Onshape check out Teaching Tech on YouTube.

The internet is the source of information whether it be in print or video.  There are several YouTubers that you'll consistently go to.  Numerous Forumites have been commenting on their experiences with making 3D models.   So checkout their posts.

My recommendation for a small resin printer is the Elegoo Mars 3.  I don't really have one for a filament printer (I have a Elegoo Neptune 3) but choose one with auto bed leveling.

Both resin and filament have a place in model railroading.

Jan

Edited 3/5/22

Wow!  Never thought about printing my own cars.  That flat car looks great!  How much is it to buy the design and what is the cost of materials to print?

The design is free and you can find it on Thingiverse https://www.thingiverse.com/thing:2069464 and on cults3d https://cults3d.com/en/3d-model/game/prr-f-22-flatcar

The models as posted are in G scale (1:29) and in two pieces.  There is a third piece that you can get which will convert the car from an F22 to an FM.  The trucks were 3D printer and we used salvaged wheelsets.

I cant give you an actual cost, but from the weight I would say less than $5 in materials.  If you use purchased trucks then your cost would more than triple.  As I said the original filament printed cars are made from two pieces.  The resin printed car is one piece.  We joined the two pieces in a CAD program.

Jan

I'll jump in here with another 2 cents worth on SLA resin printers. I recently upgraded my entry level Mars Pro to an Elegoo Saturn. It has a 9" diagonal build plate (120 x 200 mm; over 3.2 times the area of the Mars Pro) and I am quite happy with it so far. Plus it has a max print height of 200mm. It was around $450 in early Sept from Amazon. It had been discounted since a newer model the Saturn 2 is supposed to be released someday. I ran out of patience waiting for it.

Another very big deal for SLA printing is the advent of water washable resins. You used to have to wash your finished print off in an isopropyl alcohol bath. But now all that is need is warm soapy water, and its way faster and cleaner. I have switched exclusively to water wash. Slightly more expensive, but well worth it IMO. All this and a lot more is covered in a 3D printing article rumored to be upcoming soon in an issue of OGR magazine. Stay tuned!

Rod

Here are some additional pictures of the 3D printed flatcar.  The deck could be printed separately of replaced with a wooden one.  The trucks were printed on a FDM printer.  The next time we'll try resin.

Jan

For my (age censored) birthday, my dear one bought me two books:

Guzman, Natalie. 3D Printing Made Easy for Newbies and Hobbyists. 2021.  ISBN 9798483791935. It's a self-published book, but actually quite good on practical advice about the ins and outs of 3D printers, including selecting one.

I confess that on reading the book, I decided to put off the printer because I have so many hobbies that offer challenges and learning each day and because so many 3D printed hobby items are available that I realized I do not need the printer. That said, my dear one probably would have bought the printer for me. (Aren't I spoiled?)