Brass locomotive construction being such a labor intensive process meant it was a matter of time for it to end or go on hiatus. Brass builders went feom Japan to South Korea and then to China. It moved as labor costs rose in order to hold a competitive price. Perhaps a new builder market will arise somewhere that can build quality models at a cost where buyers will commit. If such a market never materializes, new technology may be able to bring the cost down by reducing labor cost. Maybe parts can be 3D printed in brass at a competive price one day? Perhaps if the most labor intensive steps of building a brass model can be replaced with printed parts and generate a sizeable savings, this would make low volume steam models viable again.
@Hot Water posted:Well, in my opinion the market is actually abandoning steam locomotive models. If Sunset/3rd Rail can no longer offer highly detailed, hand made brass models at prices under $2500, then that's the end. Now "using some other method", such as die-cast or injection molded styrene, would be even more expensive, for small quantity production runs.
Well that is unfortunate but understandable given the circumstances. I am lucky to own two locomotives that they produced though I'm not the first owner. One is the great looking L3b Mohawk(3035) that Bruk had converted to Legacy. The other is the Pennsylvania S2 Turbine that Pat worked on so that the smoke actually did what the real engine did(at speed less smoke). I've been thinking on getting one of their Hudson's, but like the Weaver New Haven I5, gone before I've had a chance to get a better look at the details on the laptop instead of phone.
@Dave NYC Hudson PRR K4 posted:Well that is unfortunate but understandable given the circumstances. I am lucky to own two locomotives that they produced though I'm not the first owner. One is the great looking L3b Mohawk(3035) that Bruk had converted to Legacy. The other is the Pennsylvania S2 Turbine that Pat worked on so that the smoke actually did what the real engine did(at speed less smoke). I've been thinking on getting one of their Hudson's, but like the Weaver New Haven I5, gone before I've had a chance to get a better look at the details on the laptop instead of phone.
Welcome to the "club". Prior to me exiting the 3RS hobby, I had 25 Sunset/3rd Rail steam locomotives. Loved each and every one, and ran them regularly. The NYC L3b Mohawk was one of the best, and the NYC J3A "Super Hudson" was one of my favorites. The NYC Niagara was also a crowd pleaser.
NYC ACMU commuter cars
3D Print aluminum body and tender small steam locomotives.
Laser cut and laser welded aluminum sheets and stock shapes to produce the Johnstown American Aluminum Vehical Carriers for AUTO TRAIN, AMTRAK, CP, CN.
Andrew
@dkdkrd posted:...snip... An interesting packaging challenge...power/drive, control, sound, lighting, interiors. ...snip...
Not really, MTH did it years ago with their Red Arrow Liberty Liner, North Shore Electroliner, B&M/MC Flying Yankee, and CB&Q Pioneer Zephyr sets. These were four-car articulators riding on five trucks. The end trucks were motors, the middle ones trailers. For the Yankee/Zephyr sets add-on cars were offered.
@Hot Water posted:Welcome to the "club". Prior to me exiting the 3RS hobby, I had 25 Sunset/3rd Rail steam locomotives. Loved each and every one, and ran them regularly. The NYC L3b Mohawk was one of the best, and the NYC J3A "Super Hudson" was one of my favorites. The NYC Niagara was also a crowd pleaser.
Hello Jack. Are you still an active model RR er? Hopefully 2 rail perhaps? :-)
@c.sam posted:Hello Jack. Are you still an active model RR er? Hopefully 2 rail perhaps? :-)
No. After more than 65/70 years in model railroading (both HO then 3RS), I no longer participate. When I need to see model trains in operation I visit friends.
@PRRMP54 posted:Not really, MTH did it years ago with their Red Arrow Liberty Liner, North Shore Electroliner, B&M/MC Flying Yankee, and CB&Q Pioneer Zephyr sets. These were four-car articulators riding on five trucks. The end trucks were motors, the middle ones trailers. For the Yankee/Zephyr sets add-on cars were offered.
You're probably right, Dave.
OTOH, MTH-RK/Lionel Doodlebugs (granted, not to scale length, et al) leave a lot to be desired for interior improvement as built. Some of the later 1:1 bugs with upgraded prime movers/gearing had sufficient power to pull some local freight in addition to a trailer passenger and/or baggage car. I think 'power' was one of the weaker points of the RK Pioneer/Yankee drive arrangement. Additional weight helped, but at the expense of the interior, I believe.
Ah, well, it's all just a dream/suggestion anyway. If this suggestion doesn't lead to a market probe any better than some of my earlier steam suggestions, my hobby money...lack thereof?...is safe in it's current pittance form.
@dkdkrd posted:You're probably right, Dave.
OTOH, MTH-RK/Lionel Doodlebugs (granted, not to scale length, et al) leave a lot to be desired for interior improvement as built. Some of the later 1:1 bugs with upgraded prime movers/gearing had sufficient power to pull some local freight in addition to a trailer passenger and/or baggage car. I think 'power' was one of the weaker points of the RK Pioneer/Yankee drive arrangement. Additional weight helped, but at the expense of the interior, I believe.
Ah, well, it's all just a dream/suggestion anyway. If this suggestion doesn't lead to a market probe any better than some of my earlier steam suggestions, my hobby money...lack thereof?...is safe in it's current pittance form.
3rd Rail did the Liberty Liners, the Electroliner, the Flying Yankee, and the Pioneer Zephyr as well. All different setups on power options no doubt, but like the RDC, a doodlebug could use truck mounted motors to preserve as much of the interior as possible and the boards and the speakers could go in the baggage compartment. There is off course the Bill Model 660 that 3rd Rail did in brass, but a Santa Fe one would be really nice too and could be done to a higher level of fidelity as a plastic tooled model with brass castings. It might come in a little steep as the number of orders would likely be in the 150-300 unit range, but who knows? With the impending rerun of the 1937 Super Chief and the heavyweights, I think this would be a cool project. I would be curious what other roads had a similar enough model that the same tooling could be used for it. I know there has to be some out there even if doodlebugs are about as diverse as they come due to prototypical low production numbers.
Personally something like M181, M160, or the Burlington prototype would be more interesting to me than the three truck M190 version.
I like the idea of doing this but anything in "Santa Claus" as Bob Heil would say is attractive to me.
@VistaDomeScott posted:What happened to 3rd Rail plans to produce the original Santa Fe Super Chief first diesels "Amos & Andy" 1A and 1B? That would sell some heavyweights in AT&SF.
I sure don’t remember this being offered. Must be quite some time ago. As a new “one off” offering, this would be a low # production run = quite expensive. Perhaps Krause Maffei-esq $. They are not exactly beauties BUT quite historically significant. I’d love to see these done !!!! And they should be offered as a Pair like the EA, E1 s were done !!!!
@TrainBub posted:I sure don’t remember this being offered. Must be quite some time ago. As a new “one off” offering, this would be a low # production run = quite expensive. Perhaps Krause Maffei-esq $. They are not exactly beauties BUT quite historically significant. I’d love to see these done !!!!
It was only talk here on the forum. I don't recall it ever being a serious consideration for production but agreed that it would be in the price range of the Krauss-Maffei were it to go forward. Another model I'd enjoy having as well.
@GG1 4877 posted:3rd Rail did the Liberty Liners, the Electroliner, the Flying Yankee, and the Pioneer Zephyr as well. All different setups on power options no doubt, but like the RDC, a doodlebug could use truck mounted motors to preserve as much of the interior as possible and the boards and the speakers could go in the baggage compartment. There is off course the Bill Model 660 that 3rd Rail did in brass, but a Santa Fe one would be really nice too and could be done to a higher level of fidelity as a plastic tooled model with brass castings. It might come in a little steep as the number of orders would likely be in the 150-300 unit range, but who knows? With the impending rerun of the 1937 Super Chief and the heavyweights, I think this would be a cool project. I would be curious what other roads had a similar enough model that the same tooling could be used for it. I know there has to be some out there even if doodlebugs are about as diverse as they come due to prototypical low production numbers.
Personally something like M181, M160, or the Burlington prototype would be more interesting to me than the three truck M190 version.
I like the idea of doing this but anything in "Santa Claus" as Bob Heil would say is attractive to me.
I’d love to see a plastic doodlebug run. Key will be the ability to get the numbers higher than 150-300. Multiple roads are key with “common” design elements that can be modified with add on pieces. 🤔
Cheers 😉
@mwb posted:Yes. Would be nice to see more traction items as there is source other than 3D printed body shells now w/o drives, etc.
Hmm. I hadn’t thought about traction offerings and 3rd Rail but this would be a very cool avenue to explore. A GE-Westinghouse freight motor would be a great model that could be decorated in many roads and shortlines. I’d love to have some proper Pacific Electric freight power and maybe see a proper Blimp done as well.
I'd love for Scott to build the C-15! The problem is cost and demand. B&O was a big user, but not a lot of demand from other roads. I have talk to both Scott and Bob about the possibility of building the C-15 and there reply was; "has to be a market". Sure wish the PRR or the UP had them. Maybe some 3D O Scale folks can print one up?
Any chance of a M-1000? I think I saw one pop up on the bay a year ago and forgot about it and completely missed out but I remember the pictures and that looked to be an amazing model
@Trainchief posted:I'd love for Scott to build the C-15! The problem is cost and demand. B&O was a big user, but not a lot of demand from other roads. I have talk to both Scott and Bob about the possibility of building the C-15 and there reply was; "has to be a market". Sure wish the PRR or the UP had them. Maybe some 3D O Scale folks can print one up?
The C-15 was on the GGD webpage for a while, but it just didn't get the orders to move forward. I agree that it would have been an interesting car for any layout. Bob was a huge champion for these, but at the same time I recall he had several that he either scratch or kit built for his own collection.
Well, as soon as “B&O” pops up in a post it’s got my interest. When I Google “C-15 B&O” I get information about a baggage car. I thought we were primarily talking about locomotive candidates that people are interested in modelling. Please tell me more about the C-15.
Is there interest in this baggage car with fantasy schemes for other roads? It is an interesting, if unique baggage car that likely wouldn't get enough interest from B&O fans alone, but perhaps if it was offered in C&O, PRR, ATSF, NYC, and a host of other roads it would hit the number required to put it at the $200 range?????
Thanks Jonathan! I'm definitely in.
If it’s made int two different road numbers for the B&O, I'll buy 2.
I do not always demonstrate irrational exuberance about a railroad. But when I do, I prefer B&O.
Stay O Gauge, my friends
I would certainly buy one, perhaps two, in B&O livery.
Bob Heil was showing a sample car of the C-15 Express car at some shows a while back. IIRC the car was built by a member of the Baltimore Club.
The Prototype cars were express cars, as the posts in Jonathan's link talk about. They would have traveled all over the country in express service.
They have a very unique riveted truck. The bottom photo shows an example from the car in Cleveland. The day I was out in their yard in Cleveland it was parked tight on parallel tracks and I could not photograph the whole car. But I was able to get some detail images. Like this one of the truck.
I hope this gets enough interest to make the production happen. It would be a nice addition to O scale.
I'll have to listen to that podcast as I am curious as to what all is being said. Best to get it from the horse's mouth as it were.
I know the secondary market always has a bunch of items from prior owners/collectors and the like. It is just a question of finding the right thing at the right time.
Silverliners/Jersey Arrows anyone?
I'm not close to all what has ever been offered but have the original Metroliners ever been done?
As I recall Jim the N&W's 0-8-0 loco designs were based on some C&O class C-16 0-8-0s that were built in the 1940s, some of which were picked up by N&W second hand. The Virginian also picked up some second hand C&O class C-16s, although of a different subclass than the N&W locos. I put in a plug for these items in an earlier discussion. I believe this was a bigger loco than the USRA 0-8-0.
Not to sound like a broken record but.... 54ft Reefers please
Baldwin BP20
Saw an interesting announcement today: Sunset 3rd Rail and Third & Townsend models are collaborating on a project for HO 2-8-0’s in brass (SP, WP, and D&RGW). They’ll be $2,000!!!
Gives a pretty good idea of how costs have soared. In O scale, these would likely be at least $3k which is hard to swallow for a consolidation.
Baldwin BP20 Passenger Shark in PRR. Was only done once by Weaver in low quantities.
I too would like to see BP20 passenger sharks done right. Anything PRR always sells and with the new Broadway Limited re-run you'd think they would be a slam dunk. Could be priced like an EA / E1 pair.
Baldwin BP20 Shark in Pennsy. Alco RS3 There would be plenty of road names for these.
@bluelinec4 posted:Would love to see Stillwell Coaches They have been done in HO by Northwest shortlines and Funaro and Camerlengo, The early stillwell coaches had arches over the windows with a unique roof and were very sharp My picture at the NY Railroad museum
They were modernized later on Dont have any pic of that They were used on the Erie Railroad The New York Westchester & Boston had a fleet of Stillwells that had pantographs used in their commuter service, the Susquehanna used them as well as the PATH. Southern pacific and Rock island had Stillwells as well as the Chicago and Eastern Indiana
I would be interested for a set of NYW&B Stillwell cars, that way I don't have to built my own!
@Big Jim posted:Seems to me that as so many railroads used the USRA 0-8-0's, this would be a good model to do...and, the last steam loco built for a Class 1 RR!
N&W 244
That is one smart looking locomotive Big Jim. I'd by that if they made it. At least we know it wouldn't be a cardboard cutout of what it was supposed to be with only the wheels being close.
How about 3rd rail PRR BP20’s?
Personally, I would really like to see BP20s done well. The Weaver model is beautiful, but not a stellar runner and impossible to find. I think 3rd Rail could improve upon that model a great deal. The challenge as always now is if there is enough interest to sell 500 units for locomotive that only ran on one road.
Scott and I had a chance to hang out a few weekends ago and honestly, we didn't chat a lot about trains. My wife and I got out of the 110-degree AZ heat for a long weekend that never got out of the 70's which was awesome on its own. He got me an RC flying lesson and I was lucky I was on the student controller as the instructor saved everyone at the flying club from possible injury and or death more times than I can count, and I would have crashed the plane at least a dozen times. Scott has an amazing collection of RC planes by the way. I saw that his huge 3D printed Airbus A320 he painted for TWA wasn't prototypical and he said, "That's why I'm not a model railroader." 
Our brief shop conversations really focused on the question of what kind of models would really get the traction required to move forward in today's fickle O scale market rather than specifics. Luckily the que is full for the next year to answer that question. There are a few projects that were discussed years past that might become official, but no official word yet.
In the meantime, get you orders in for Run 2 SD7/9s, Run-2 SD40-2s, FAs, FM Erie Builts, GP30s, EL-3As, the last 12 reservations on the Allegheny, GE P32/42s, and Chargers! Also, a plug for GGD heavyweights, the '38 / '40 20th Century that will be much lighter than the original run and have the correct colors (again), The Meteor, The Prospector, the '37 Super Chief, Run 2 Superliners, and the '48 Broadway Limited.
I only bring this last part up to show that there is a lot of offerings in the works. All that is missing are your orders.
Jonathan, et al and Dave and john etc
Sorry for that but I could not resist playing off the "al". I will grow up one day but not today.
I was hoping for FM Train Masters when the Virginian gondolas came in but "noooo". Disappointed again.
Other than the FM Train Master, I have no great wants that have not already been reserved.
Cheers,
Ed
An FM Train Master is on my wish list too in both PRR and CNJ.
