What's the deadline for the SD40-2's and are additional road #'s going to be done? Seems like the GP30's are getting the same response the SD40-2's received initially, which is to say, not much.
@GG1 4877 posted:Personally, I would really like to see BP20s done well. The Weaver model is beautiful, but not a stellar runner and impossible to find. I think 3rd Rail could improve upon that model a great deal. The challenge as always now is if there is enough interest to sell 500 units for locomotive that only ran on one road.
Jonathan, so I'm guessing all of the B & O EAs and the SF E1s counted together towards the 500 unit total? And is it 500 pairs or 500 units (where A + B = 2 units)? 500 PRR pairs, I agree, that's tough. But I bet 250 pairs / 500 total units is doable, especially with four unique documented schemes: https://jbritton.pennsyrr.com/...senger-shark-article
For sure, some guys would order two pairs / 4 units. Lots of PRR foamers out there.
Edit: I now recall the Passenger Shark prototypes were run as A-B-A sets, which would put them in the same pricing category as the VGN EL-3A models, if they were sold that way. Or Scott could give people buying a pair the option to buy a single matching A unit. Etc.
@BlueFeather posted:Jonathan, so I'm guessing all of the B & O EAs and the SF E1s counted together towards the 500 unit total? And is it 500 pairs or 500 units (where A + B = 2 units)? 500 PRR pairs, I agree, that's tough. But I bet 250 pairs / 500 total units is doable, especially with four unique documented schemes: https://jbritton.pennsyrr.com/...senger-shark-article
For sure, some guys would order two pairs / 4 units. Lots of PRR foamers out there.
Edit: I now recall the Passenger Shark prototypes were run as A-B-A sets, which would put them in the same pricing category as the VGN EL-3A models, if they were sold that way. Or Scott could give people buying a pair the option to buy a single matching A unit. Etc.
I agree. I think if announced they would do very well today. A&B pairs & single A units.
DGLE 5 stripe & single stripe
tuscan 5 stripe & single stripe.
penn Central????? Did they make it to PC?
On the PRR BP20's, there were 5 different paint/striping schemes:
1) Early units as delivered, DGLE with 5 side stripes, but no stripes on the nose
2) later units as delivered and updated early units, DGLE with 5 stripes on nose and sides
3) units following 1952 tuscan repainting, tuscan with 5 stripes on nose and sides
4) later passenger scheme, tuscan with large lettering, single wide stripe on nose and sides
5) for the 8 units regeared for freight service in 1952-53, DGLE with narrow single stripe on nose and sides
@Dj'sOgaugetrains posted:
penn Central????? Did they make it to PC?
The BP20s were retired after serving their last days pulling commuter trains on the NY&LB in 1964. It was a job they did fairly well with their Westinghouse 370F traction motors which allegedly were a little more robust than their EMD counterparts. Having said that, EMD's E units were superior in almost every other category and E7s promptly ruled the NY&LB once the big Baldwins were retired.
Interestingly enough E7s were the first diesel electrics tested on the NY&LB in 1956, but Alco PAs and Baldwin Sharks ended up getting the job of replacing the last of the K4s in 1957. The Alcos didn't last long. AP-20s promptly became SY-0s (scrap yard-0 hp 
) as the short distance between station stops tore them apart. When the E7s finally returned they stayed in service until retired in 1978.
Sorry for the digression from the topic, but that is one of the reasons I have such a passion for the NY&LB. Between the CNJ and the PRR one could justify seeing nearly every passenger locomotive in service.
All I can say is, give it a little time and let's see how the current offerings fare.
One more data point: every time I see a Weaver BP20 pop up, it's all beat up and missing pieces, the Train Phone antennas are all bent, they're notoriously poor runners, etc., and they *still* command at least $1,200 per unit -- much higher if in excellent or better condition. There's definitely some pent up demand there -- same thing re: the Jawn Henry.
@BlueFeather posted:One more data point: every time I see a Weaver BP20 pop up, it's all beat up and missing pieces, the Train Phone antennas are all bent, they're notoriously poor runners, etc., and they *still* command at least $1,200 per unit -- much higher if in excellent or better condition. There's definitely some pent up demand there -- same thing re: the Jawn Henry.
I agree with this. I’d like to see this beast offered. 😜
The 3rd Rail Q is pretty lengthy right now though. If the offerings get too plentiful, they compete with each other and each ends up diminished reservations - and they stall on the way to “its a go”. I hope we can clean out the Q a bit - then add this beauty to the offering with AB and A offered. I’m not even a “Pennsy” guy but I’d be in for an “A” unit.
Cheers 😉
I would be in for a BP20, and I've got a Weaver in pretty good shape. To Jonathan's comment that the Weaver is not a stellar runner, I think he is being a bit generous...
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I find the competition to see who would dominate the diesel market in the late 1940s fascinating. Baldwin knew a great deal about how to design a railroad locomotive. But GM knew a great deal about how to design a reliable internal combustion engine. Reliability settled the contest...
Well, l ran across a 2015 3rd Rail Flyer showing two small locos, a "Q" Mikado and an ATSF Mogul priced at $1400, which l regarded as articulated pricing, so did nothing, although both were interesting. I think this explains why 3rd Rail is sadly no longer offering steam. With little interest in diesels, l would buy doodlebugs, but probably there is not a lot of general demand.
...
I have to admit 3rd Rail has produced some of my favorites... 
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@catnap posted:What's the deadline for the SD40-2's and are additional road #'s going to be done? Seems like the GP30's are getting the same response the SD40-2's received initially, which is to say, not much.
Apologies on the delayed respinse. It's been a full weekend working on SD7/9s.
There is no formal deadline on the SD40-2 yet. I would suspect with the current que it will be 6-9 months. I think I will be in for a 2 rail Conrail unit.
I know its been brought up many times but with the talk of doodlebugs (which I think is a great idea) the McKeen car is worth mentioning again. Such a unique and stylish piece of passenger equipment and gets asked about a lot. MTH almost did it but couldn’t quite get there on orders. I think 3rd Rail could get there and would do a much nicer job. Also, since one has been returned to service (Virgina & Truckee) since MTH attempted, getting enough orders is probably doable. Lots of railroads had them and there were only a few paint colors so decoration is not terribly complicated. This would also be a great candidate for a Blunami option since appropriate sound files would be available.
@Bill N posted:As I recall Jim the N&W's 0-8-0 loco designs were based on some C&O class C-16 0-8-0s that were built in the 1940s, some of which were picked up by N&W second hand. The Virginian also picked up some second hand C&O class C-16s, although of a different subclass than the N&W locos. I put in a plug for these items in an earlier discussion. I believe this was a bigger loco than the USRA 0-8-0.
I could probably prove you wrong on this, but, "terms of service" would prohibit my way of proof.
@Big Jim posted:I could probably prove you wrong on this, but, "terms of service" would prohibit my way of proof.
If it’s a digital photo you are referring to, just post a link to the webpage where it is included. That’s perfectly acceptable.
@Big Jim posted:I could probably prove you wrong on this, but, "terms of service" would prohibit my way of proof.
I am just working from the numbers I have Jim. Height seems to be the same whether for the USRA, the C16/SB and the S1a. The C16/SB and the S1a both seem to be heavier engines with greater tractive effort than the USRA's.
3rd rail / GGD wish list
yes I know this is a what’s next for 3rd rail thread but since Scott owns Golden gate depot I threw in my wish list for that too.
Diesel: PRR BP20, EMC E2, alco RS3/ RSD4, AS-616.
diesel re-run: E8’s, FT’s, FL9’s
Steam: Virginian triplex 2-8-8-8-4, PRR K5, PRR Bull moose 2-8-8-0, B&O N1 4-4-4-4 (I know the brass steam market is toast now. Maybe one day it would be feasible to make brass steam again)
Aluminum passenger: (GGD) PRR trailblazer, streamlined Heavyweight B&O Capitol limited, Amfleet II’s Superliner II’s,Amtrak pacific parlour cars, Amtrak heritage cars, more NdeM sleepers
plastic passenger cars: shadowline 12-1 sleepers in Southern, Santa Fe, CB&Q, PRR & Seaboard.
PRR heavyweight 28-1 parlor cars (WWII era congressional) & Long Island railroad 1960’s blue stripe 28-1 parlor cars (these are very close to the 12-1 sleeper tooling, different interior & slightly different window arrangement)
Long Island railroad “ tichy scheme” P70 coaches
Southern crescent limited green sleepers, diner, combine, RPO, & observation.
seaboard orange blossom special sleepers, diner, & combine car.
@Dj'sOgaugetrains posted:3rd rail / GGD wish list
yes I know this is a what’s next for 3rd rail thread but since Scott owns Golden gate depot I threw in my wish list for that too.
Diesel: PRR BP20, EMC E2, alco RS3/ RSD4, AS-616.
diesel re-run: E8’s, FT’s, FL9’sSteam: Virginian triplex 2-8-8-8-4, PRR K5, PRR Bull moose 2-8-8-0, B&O N1 4-4-4-4 (I know the brass steam market is toast now. Maybe one day it would be feasible to make brass steam again)
Aluminum passenger: (GGD) PRR trailblazer, streamlined Heavyweight B&O Capitol limited, Amfleet II’s Superliner II’s,Amtrak pacific parlour cars, Amtrak heritage cars, more NdeM sleepers
plastic passenger cars: shadowline 12-1 sleepers in Southern, Santa Fe, CB&Q, PRR & Seaboard.
PRR heavyweight 28-1 parlor cars (WWII era congressional) & Long Island railroad 1960’s blue stripe 28-1 parlor cars (these are very close to the 12-1 sleeper tooling, different interior & slightly different window arrangement)
Long Island railroad “ tichy scheme” P70 coaches
Southern crescent limited green sleepers, diner, combine, RPO, & observation.
seaboard orange blossom special sleepers, diner, & combine car.
Wow 🫢🫣😳 !!!
That’s a Mighty Long list DJ !!!!!
I think the rerun of the E8, FT, FL9 are likely at some time. The FT is historically important for many roads and run 1 had only a few roads. An expanded offering should be quite popular. E8s are always popular. FL9 possibly last in line for a rerun. Of course All IMHO.
More NDeM sleepers. There are 2 currently available for reservations in the heavyweight offering. And coach too. These cars are perfect for building a prototypical Aztec Eagle consist. And speaking of the Eagle - a MP Jenks blue offering is being worked on. To be included is the Budd 10-6 with 6 wheel trucks. This MP car ran to Mexico City on the Aztec Eagle. Let Scott know you will be interested in this. In fact, when MP left the passenger scene, these 10-6s were sold to NdeM and were repainted and renamed. 🤔🤔
Cheers 😉
On the GGD side of things, I think a general offering of a la carte aluminum cars would be nice. Give people the opportunity to fill in existing trains. I would like some NP domes, a GN diner and sleepers, some Amtrak heritage cars, etc
@Will Ebbert posted:On the GGD side of things, I think a general offering of a la carte aluminum cars would be nice. Give people the opportunity to fill in existing trains. I would like some NP domes, a GN diner and sleepers, some Amtrak heritage cars, etc
I like the idea. The first key is the ability to use existing tooling (no new cars). Second is sufficient numbers for a given road name / car.
Perhaps this scenario is a good vehicle for Scott to have in the wings to boost the numbers on a given project whose numbers are a bit lite. 🤔 Juggling lots of paint schemes may be difficult though. 🤔🤔🤔
@TrainBub posted:Juggling lots of paint schemes may be difficult though. 🤔🤔🤔
Especially for one who juggles all the paint schemes
Honestly not as hard on passenger cars. It's not like locomotives that have sometimes upward of 70 different design features that vary by road name. For passenger cars it is simply a question of "splitting the vote". Too many choices lead to not enough orders for any one road name which makes it harder to get a project into production sooner. It is always a fine line about offering enough variety to keep many modelers excited, but not so many it takes forever to get the basic minimums for each paint scheme to move the project forward.
Too many choices lead to not enough orders for any one road name which makes it harder to get a project into production sooner. It is always a fine line about offering enough variety to keep many modelers excited, but not so many it takes forever to get the basic minimums for each paint scheme to move the project forward.
Might want to save the above for future use!
Has Sunset ever offered the UP excursion train? I think it would be a great offering that would sell well alongside a City of Los Angeles consist or other city train.
@bigboy25 posted:Has Sunset ever offered the UP excursion train? I think it would be a great offering that would sell well alongside a City of Los Angeles consist or other city train.
None of the current excursion models. Some UP cars in 4 car finish sets from 2012 to 2015ish. Would love to see new excursion models of the Heartland, Challenger excursions, George Bush Funeral cars etc.
@vash44 posted:Would love to see new excursion models of the Heartland, Challenger excursions, George Bush Funeral cars etc.
I'd look at these. I bought a bunch of recent Lionel UP 21" plastic cars to run with my new VL Big Boy and they're decent, but obviously lacking when compared to GGD aluminum cars. The difference is so apparent that non-train folks comment on it unsolicited when viewing both together.
The City Series trains is a good suggestion along with the excursion train. What would be the minimum number of car types required to pull all of the trains off at the same time? To my point earlier, the simpler the project, the more likely it is to go forward and to be built accurately. There could be add on cars like the generator car perhaps from the excursion sets and paint schemes are easier to manage over tools.
@bigboy25 posted:Has Sunset ever offered the UP excursion train? I think it would be a great offering that would sell well alongside a City of Los Angeles consist or other city train.
I seem to remember discussions quite some time ago concerning the difficulty of making CORRECT Union Pacific passenger equipment, do to all the rivets on the prototypes.
@Hot Water posted:I seem to remember discussions quite some time ago concerning the difficulty of making CORRECT Union Pacific passenger equipment, do to all the rivets on the prototypes.
We managed to come up with a way to do rivets on aluminum cars for the MOPAC Eagle that was fairly simple and credible. Perhaps we can revisit the UP sets now?
@GG1 4877 posted:We managed to come up with a way to do rivets on aluminum cars for the MOPAC Eagle that was fairly simple and credible. Perhaps we can revisit the UP sets now?
They should show Very Nicely on the yellow paint. 👍😜
While I know GGD would make much better UP cars than Lionel, I got my Lionel ones for under $150 each. GGD is running 3x that price now and this is a set I can't justify that difference on. I would buy a power car though, but just add it to my Lionel fleet. Correct water cars would be nice.
@Will Ebbert posted:While I know GGD would make much better UP cars than Lionel, I got my Lionel ones for under $150 each. GGD is running 3x that price now and this is a set I can't justify that difference on. I would buy a power car though, but just add it to my Lionel fleet. Correct water cars would be nice.
This is why I think a correct City series set of cars would do better than the excursion train. The City cars have not been done remotely correctly and would look great behind the 3rd Rail E6s which were done in City of San Francisco and City of Los Angeles.
While talking GGD passenger sets, what kind of interest is there in a Panama Limited or C&NW 400? Locomotives have been done for those too, but there doesn't seem to be a ton of interest in the passenger cars to go with them. Sure, there is probably interest in maybe 30 sets, but is there enough interest to justify 200 sets or more?
@GG1 4877 posted:This is why I think a correct City series set of cars would do better than the excursion train. The City cars have not been done remotely correctly and would look great behind the 3rd Rail E6s which were done in City of San Francisco and City of Los Angeles.
While talking GGD passenger sets, what kind of interest is there in a Panama Limited or C&NW 400? Locomotives have been done for those too, but there doesn't seem to be a ton of interest in the passenger cars to go with them. Sure, there is probably interest in maybe 30 sets, but is there enough interest to justify 200 sets or more?
I’ve approached Scott about the IC Panama Ltd or City of New Orleans. He said IC doesn’t get much interest. I’m surprised as these trains go thru a lot of states. I’d love to see either.
I’d love to see a SP Lark run 2 and have approached Scott with this. No go with Scott here too. If he ever changes his mind, I’m in on the new run. I believe the baggage car was brass. I hope it could now be done in aluminum as I’m sure the brass car will now be very expensive. The SP Cascade could be a good alternate option.
@TrainBub posted:Juggling lots of paint schemes may be difficult though. 🤔🤔🤔
@GG1 4877 posted:Honestly not as hard on passenger cars. It's not like locomotives that have sometimes upward of 70 different design features that vary by road name. For passenger cars it is simply a question of "splitting the vote". Too many choices lead to not enough orders for any one road name which makes it harder to get a project into production sooner. It is always a fine line about offering enough variety to keep many modelers excited, but not so many it takes forever to get the basic minimums for each paint scheme to move the project forward.
Now that Golden Gate Depot is fair game in this thread -
The Penn Central and early Amtrak days were a fascinating era. I would like to buy authentic O scale, 3 rail replicas of passenger car consists that ran behind GG1s on the NE corridor. (Emphasis on passenger car consists rather than ones including sleepers.) PRR, PC, CR and Amtrak GG1s are all candidates for pulling these, as well as more diesels than I know about. What Jonathan knows on the subject could fill a book. I would love to have these passenger cars in aluminum, but plastic would not turn me away. Can these cars be made with existing tooling?
Putting my vote in for the New Haven's postwar stainless steel-clad passenger cars.
Two basic cars make up the bulk of the fleet, a coach (104 rostered) and a parlor car (25 regular, 5 with additional smoking lounge). The bulk of the New Haven's daytime trains, named or unnamed, can be reasonably represented from these two cars.
Additional minor cars include a baggage-parlor-lounge car (20, in a few different interior configurations), grill cars (15), and diners (10).
All cars could be offered in New Haven Hunter Green, New Haven McGinnis Red, and Penn Central Deepwater Green. The coaches and parlor cars could also be offered in Amtrak, and just the coaches in MTA/Metro North and MBTA.
These cars also traveled offline - frequently on through trains with the Boston & Maine, Maine Central, Central Vermont / CN, and Pennsylvania. Less frequently they appeared on Florida service trains on the Atlantic Coast Line and Seaboard Air Line. Several grill cars were also leased to the Delaware & Hudson during the late 60's.
I think I heard on this forum that these models were being considered but that was a while ago. Passenger car diagrams and passenger train consist lists can be found here: Alphabet Route - New York, New Haven, and Hartford
~Chris
The New Haven was brought into the Penn Central. With some research, perhaps the right paint scheme and numbering could make some NH car models authentic for use by the Penn Central as well, increasing the customer base for these.
For example, page 45 of "Car Names, Numbers and Consists" indicates that the Penn Central had 72-seat chair cars numbered 3190-3199 from former New Haven cars numbered in the range 7200-7209. This single piece of information is not comprehensive proof of anything, and it leads to more questions, but it suggests that there is data to dig into.
@GG1 4877 posted:This is why I think a correct City series set of cars would do better than the excursion train. The City cars have not been done remotely correctly and would look great behind the 3rd Rail E6s which were done in City of San Francisco and City of Los Angeles.
While talking GGD passenger sets, what kind of interest is there in a Panama Limited or C&NW 400? Locomotives have been done for those too, but there doesn't seem to be a ton of interest in the passenger cars to go with them. Sure, there is probably interest in maybe 30 sets, but is there enough interest to justify 200 sets or more?
I would be incredibly interested in Excursion UP, City of Nola/Panama City and intrigued by the 400. I think from a sales side the C&NW would be gangbuster. Looking at past sold values of the K-line cars puts them to the moon. May be demand over supply but they always seem to sell high over retail.
Based on internet chatter and so forth of City trains I think they would be a bust. CoSF and CoLA had minimal interest in the E6 run and ended up with duplicate road numbers. Sadly not enough were produced to switch out.
Maybe correctly done for once gets the cars done.
I'd love a re-run of the Lark, but I'm not sure how well it would do because of the price. Even if the whole train was aluminum the Lark had 15 sleeping cars alone. The cascade would probably be a better option, especially if you made the Northern Pacific cars optional add-ons.
I'd also be interested in Bombardier commuter cars. I think K-Line is the only one to make scale models of these cars, and with the many different commuter services there might be something for everyone. I'd like a set of ACE cars to match the Charger I have reserved.
@Will Ebbert posted:While I know GGD would make much better UP cars than Lionel, I got my Lionel ones for under $150 each. GGD is running 3x that price now and this is a set I can't justify that difference on. I would buy a power car though, but just add it to my Lionel fleet. Correct water cars would be nice.
I’m in the same boat I have the Lionel excursion cars but definitely would be interested in picking up GGD ones that we know Lionel will never come close to doing right. Same way with aux tenders I have the Lionel ones but actual correct ones would be nice.
