There's currently a similar discussion on this subject; I think the main difference, as you said, is that your fleet has mostly open frame motors as opposed to can types.

As always, it'll be interesting to see what suggestions and comments come forward.

Mark in Oregon

HI Carey,

I power my Christmas layout with a 13.8 VDC, 20 amp power supply, all my engines are DC. To control the trains on the 3 separate loops, I have PWM DC motor controllers rated at 10 amps, each with a 10 amp fuse.  In addition I have 8 amp fuses between the controllers and the track.

https://www.amazon.com/gp/prod...00?ie=UTF8&psc=1

I am S gauge so I don’t know the amps, etc for O gauge, but I guess they must be similar.  Hopefully GRJ will add to this.

Tom Stoltz

in Maine

GML Enterprises used to make really great DC throttles and appropriate power supplies.   I had 4 of the 6 amp versions and they would hold 12 volts all the way until the amperage hit 6 and the breaker kicked out.    When I went to DCC I sold them all.    I still have a couple of  the 3 and 4 amp throttles for me TT and testing.    Unfortunately they retired and went out of business.     But you might find some used, but for what  you want definitetly stick to the 6 amp version.    They have memory also, so you can unplug the control and move to another site and the train continues to run,

Another source for very robust throttles is Dallee Electronics.    They make nice stuff too     They are still in business and they have a compreshensive website.

If you have a DC supply that you'd like to use for this purpose, consider a PWM motor control board, far superior to a rheostat for doing the job.  This will give you smooth throttle control without generating a ton of heat that you'd get from a rheostat solution.

This is one of many on eBay, auction: 304354356410, $6.99 shipped free.

I looked at those - how do they stack up against a Variac or auto-transformer?  Certainly less expensive.

O scale - older AC-DC motors may tax a five amp supply.  Maybe if you drop down the 35 volts to 18 with a "stepdown" you can get more current?

@bob2 posted:

I looked at those - how do they stack up against a Variac or auto-transformer?  Certainly less expensive.

O scale - older AC-DC motors may tax a five amp supply.  Maybe if you drop down the 35 volts to 18 with a "stepdown" you can get more current?

They will work way better than a rheostat and should do as well as a variac. 

If you have something that draws more than 5 amps, step up in power handling.

12V 24V Max 20A PWM DC Motor Stepless Variable Speed Control Controller Switch, $8.75 shipped free, eBay: 234448130467

This is way more efficient than any transformer or resistive rheostat solution, it's the go-to solution for DC motor control in a vast majority of industrial settings.  I even use PWM to control smoke fan motors for my Super-Chuffer II.

That is probably the solution, except that we need a restriction at about 18 volts.  Sixty might be dangerous.  Plus, resolution would increase on a restricted voltage range.

Variacs are kind of expensive - the small ones I use were $17.50 in 1993.  And then I needed a surplus stepdown for another five bucks, plus, plus . . .

@bob2 posted:

That is probably the solution, except that we need a restriction at about 18 volts.  Sixty might be dangerous.  Plus, resolution would increase on a restricted voltage range.

Variacs are kind of expensive - the small ones I use were $17.50 in 1993.  And then I needed a surplus stepdown for another five bucks, plus, plus . . .

Bob, the restriction is based on what you put in as voltage.  You're feeding this from your power supply, so pick one that will limit you to the maximum voltage you desire as an output.

If you put in 18 volts, you will get a PWM power waveform out with a peak voltage of 18 volts.  The "on" duration will be from 5% to 100% duty cycle, that will determine how much power the motor has.  The 9V - 60V is just the voltage range the controller will tolerate as an input voltage.  You will get a smooth change in power from minimum to maximum, the maximum being 18 VDC.

PWM Waveform at various power settings.

@bob2 posted:

I looked at those - how do they stack up against a Variac or auto-transformer?  Certainly less expensive.

O scale - older AC-DC motors may tax a five amp supply.  Maybe if you drop down the 35 volts to 18 with a "stepdown" you can get more current?

The ones I use are 10 amp and the operation is very smooth, also quiet.

Tom Stoltz

in Maine

The power should ramp up very smoothly, probably better than most transformers.  Most of these have a switching frequency of 20K or more, so most humans can't hear anything.  Your dogs might object to the ultrasonic sounds, but running a RR isn't for the dogs anyway.

This sounds like pretty high tech stuff; makes my thread about the old "Marnold" equipment seem pretty lame by comparison... 😁

Mark in Oregon

Actually, PWM has been used for decades to drive motors, it's likely by far the most common method of handling DC motors.  I guess I'm past considering it hi-tech and I look at as more mainstream.

FWIW, it's also used for LED dimming, I use it for the Super-Chuffer Rule-17 lighting feature to dim the headlight.  It's a very high efficiency and low loss method of controlling DC power.

Hello everyone thank you very much for all your suggestions I'll order a few up and see how it goes appreciate everyone's help

Cheers Carey

Sorry, my link is old but if you paste 'PWM DC motor controllers rated at 10 amps' you will see tons of them.  $7.59 and free shipping with prime.

https://www.amazon.com/DZS-Ele...r/dp/B0779QXYSR?th=1

Tom Stoltz

in Maine

@Strummer posted:

There's currently a similar discussion on this subject; I think the main difference, as you said, is that your fleet has mostly open frame motors as opposed to can types.

As always, it'll be interesting to see what suggestions and comments come forward.

Mark in Oregon

DC Power Pack for 2 rail O scale | O Gauge Railroading On Line Forum (ogaugerr.com)

I run MTH engines and control. I use Bridgewerks for DC power outside. I use Lionel PH180 bricks and a MTH Z4000 for O scale AC power. I have used them also for G scale in the past.

I also have a DC power supply that "Tank" sent me on this forum. It works good as well.

I'm pretty sure that some power supplies can scramble the MTH boards. I only state this for others using this post as a reference or future power purchase. They may consider leaving straight DC power to move to command control.

Yeah, just glanced at the thread.  Do they want to know DC only or all that other stuff?  DC only is a piece of cake and not very expensive.

TekPower TP1865 22 Amp DC 13.8V Regulated Power Supply with Fuse Protection  $99.95

TekPower TP1865 22 Amp DC 13.8V Regulated Power Supply with Fuse Protection

Tom Stoltz

in Maine

Hello all ...Tom the motor controls work great !!! Thank you very much for pointing the direction ....now to build a control box in which to mount them,...add double pole double throw switches for reversing ?

Please see video link for action footage of motor controls in use ...

I ran both trains for about 30 minutes ..the heat sinks were warm ..but not hot ..

Perhaps add a small muffin fan in the control box the help cool air keep everything running well .

Cheers Carey

https://youtu.be/q1H4DfhROKs

@Tom Stoltz posted:

Yeah, just glanced at the thread.  Do they want to know DC only or all that other stuff?  DC only is a piece of cake and not very expensive.

TekPower TP1865 22 Amp DC 13.8V Regulated Power Supply with Fuse Protection  $99.95

TekPower TP1865 22 Amp DC 13.8V Regulated Power Supply with Fuse Protection

Tom Stoltz

in Maine

Link doesn't work... 

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@Mallard4468 posted:

Link doesn't work...

Forum generates a message of "Invalid field value for field "content"."

Try a copy/paste of link or for Amazon:

https://www.amazon.com/TekPowe...ection/dp/B00L4JQW9O

Tom Stoltz

in Maine

@Carey Williams posted:

Hello all ...Tom the motor controls work great !!! Thank you very much for pointing the direction ....now to build a control box in which to mount them,...add double pole double throw switches for reversing ?

Please see video link for action footage of motor controls in use ...

I ran both trains for about 30 minutes ..the heat sinks were warm ..but not hot ..

Perhaps add a small muffin fan in the control box the help cool air keep everything running well .

Cheers Carey

https://youtu.be/q1H4DfhROKs

Carey,

Super glad they worked out for you, I really like mine.  Yes, a DPDT will give you reversing.  I also added 8 amp fast action glass fuses to protect the trains.  I think with the heat sinks you don't need a fan, but I would like to hear what GRJ has to say about that.

https://www.amazon.com/gp/prod...s00?ie=UTF8&th=1

https://www.amazon.com/gp/prod...00?ie=UTF8&psc=1

Cheap is what I am, that's why I went this way.

Your layout is fantastic, would you please provide more info?

Tom Stoltz

in Maine

@Tom Stoltz posted:

  I think with the heat sinks you don't need a fan, but I would like to hear what GRJ has to say about that.

If the heatsinks get pretty hot, add a fan.   If they manage to dissipate the heat without getting hot, you're probably fine.  Note that cool is almost always better for electronics, so when in doubt, keep them cool.

@Tom Stoltz posted:

Try a copy/paste of link or for Amazon:

https://www.amazon.com/TekPowe...ection/dp/B00L4JQW9O

Tom Stoltz

in Maine

Thanks - that worked.

@gunrunnerjohn posted:

If the heatsinks get pretty hot, add a fan.   If they manage to dissipate the heat without getting hot, you're probably fine.  Note that cool is almost always better for electronics, so when in doubt, keep them cool.

John and Carey,

I use mine for my Xmas display layout which runs for hours at a time and I never experienced anything other than just warm.  I use a power supply like the one I posted -- 20 amp regulated 13.8 VDC out.  So I am curious about how hot Carey's are getting.  Could it be the transformers he's using?

Tom Stoltz

in Maine

Hello all ..

heat sinks are warm ..not hot ... just trying to error on side of caution ...   I'll add the fuses

there are two layouts ...center one is the Multiplex   2 rail sectional layout   from 1939  please see link for more info

https://ogrforum.com/...le-track-late-1930-s

outer shelf layout is outside 3rd rail .... pieces from 2 layouts in NJ from the 30's / 40's

please see link for action packed video footage  of the outside 3rd rail layout

https://youtu.be/YP249WUrsTo

if you click on my youtube channel there are many more videos of both layouts ......also very fortunate to have many of the Frank Ellison Delta Lines buildings on the layout .

Cheers Carey

If they're not too hot to comfortably hold onto, I'd not spend any time worrying about it.

@Carey Williams posted:

Hello all ...

there are two layouts ...center one is the Multiplex   2 rail sectional layout   from 1939  please see link for more info

https://ogrforum.com/...le-track-late-1930-s

outer shelf layout is outside 3rd rail .... pieces from 2 layouts in NJ from the 30's / 40's

please see link for action packed video footage  of the outside 3rd rail layout

https://youtu.be/YP249WUrsTo

if you clink on my youtube channel there are many more videos of both layouts ......also very fortunate to have many of the Frank Ellison Delta Lines buildings on the layout .

Cheers Carey

Thanks for providing that first link Carey; guess I missed it before! 👍

As always, fascinating stuff...

Mark in Oregon

@Carey Williams posted:

Hello all ..

https://youtu.be/YP249WUrsTo

if you click on my youtube channel there are many more videos of both layouts ......also very fortunate to have many of the Frank Ellison Delta Lines buildings on the layout .

Cheers Carey

Wow Carey, that is Sooooo kool.  I had no idea about the vintage of your layout, the track being most curious.  Especially that crazy, what looks to be a curved turnout with two crossings, track work.  Custom made I assume. It’s great somebody is preserving that era of model railroading history.  The engines seem to run very well, was it much work to restore them?  I was surprised to see how well they run.

The original layout is from Philadelphia I read, are you from that area?  I only found two videos on YouTube, are there more?

Keep up the good work, thanks for posting the links…

Tom Stoltz

in Maine

Hello all

Tom ..I'm based in Chicago ,..layout traveled around a bit .

Vintage old pieces .. 95% of time just need a good cleaning , lube , remove old rectifier , some wiring , turn over by hand till everything is happy about moving ..add voltage and you are off down the track .

Most / many of the vintage pieces were built by some pretty talented folks , so 70 years later they just need a little love to come back to life .

Here is a link to my YouTube channel ...with 237 videos ...all sorts of train stuff + ...a little something for everyone ..I hope

https://youtube.com/channel/UCFz4Ai_2q54AU10Bg63CWIA

Cheers Carey

@Carey Williams posted:

Hello all

1.. Tom ..I'm based in Chicago ,..layout traveled around a bit .

2.  Vintage old pieces .. 95% of time just need a good cleaning , lube , remove old rectifier , some wiring , turn over by hand till everything is happy about moving ..add voltage and you are off down the track .

3.  Most / many of the vintage pieces were built by some pretty talented folks , so 70 years later they just need a little love to come back to life .

4.  Here is a link to my YouTube channel ...with 237 videos ...all sorts of train stuff + ...a little something for everyone ..I hope

https://youtube.com/channel/UCFz4Ai_2q54AU10Bg63CWIA

Cheers Carey

1. I figured you are probably mid-west; hearing your voice (for the first time) on the above video. A definite accent! 😊

2. Typical of all sorts of old stuff built back then... 👍

3. See #2.

4. You have a knack for finding these wonderful old pieces and how lucky we are that you are willing to share that skill with the rest of us. 🙂

Mark in Oregon