What's a Good Conventional Steam Engine?

Post war 736 is a good locomotive.  Smoke would not compair to what is available today.

I have been reading about the Williams Baldwin 4-6-0's in particular that seem to be fairly popular.

If I was going to buy a conventional engine, it would be that one.  Nothing but great reviews from what I've seen on the forum.

Robert:

 

Some additional information would be helpful. Is scale size, detailing or accuracy to a specific prototype a consideration?

 

Bob

I do not own any Williams steam engines, but if they are like their diesels, they would be excellent.  The 4-6-0 looks nice, they also have a series of 2-8-4s that look like copies of the Lionel berks, plus the J style 4-8-4s that also look real nice.

 

Also keep in mind Lionel's "conventional classics" -- as the name implies, Lionel classics without all of the electronics.  I bought a baby 2056 Hudson version with the passenger cars from a member here that is also a great set.  There is also the Berkshire sets that look terrific too -- they have a freight and passenger set.

 

Finally, I wouldn't rule out MTH.  Any manufacturer can have issues.  I've had a lot of MTH stuff over the years and generally it has all been top notch.  The reality is that if the market is now demanding a very high level of sound and prototypical operation (smoke, couplers, whistle smoke, etc.), reliability will suffer even if the manufacturers do everything "right."  It's just basic mathematics and the law of probabilities.  This is why I lean more towards the engines with less in the ways of bells and whistles.  We have some TMCC stuff and there are one or two Legacy pieces I might add, but very sparingly for the reasons you are having issues.

any good conditioned post war will so the trick and sure are easy to maintain. otherwise go Williams

You can't beat the WBB ten wheeler for smooth operation, nice coasting, well built, and good looks. Not to mention the good street price.

The WBB is the best/lowest cost conventional steamer I've seen: it is well made, durable as a anvil, runs very smoothly, etc. - but it has only bell and whistle - not chuffing/steam sounds, and it is not full scale, I suspect (never measured it but it does not look to be scale). Details is rather minimal, particularly if it is alongside other locos - it can look rather sparsely fitted out.

 

The Lionel 0-4-0 and conventional Atlantic are excellent, smooth conventional runners and have fanatic sound and detail, and they are scale if that matters to you: you can find both for prices under/right at $500 or so if you look - that is about twice what the WBB ten-wheeler goes for at discount, but the differencse may be worth it to you (it is to me).  The MTH Railking 0-6-0 is another option - a pretty much splits the difference between these two extremes right down the middle as regards, price, detail, "scale-ness" and quality of sound.

Lionel best starter set 0-8-0 runs like a top and has trainsounds which include chuff, whistle, bell and crew talk and compares favorably with its scale cousin. Starter set version in the foreground.

 

Williams die cast scale NYC Hudson is a reaaly good locomotive.  I have had mine for years and never had a problem with it.  You can get them pretty reasonably if you look around.  It is a good runner and pulls great, and has a scale size tender.  You can't beat this for the money (I got mine for $250.00).

I would think the latest Lionel 726 Berkshire from the sets would be a great choice if you're looking for modern power.

I have a few MTH Ps1 steam locomotive that runwell in conventional and sound great, but are not good smokers.

 

I would go with a Williams 2-6-0 if it smakes well or a used MTH PS1 and replace the smoke unit.

They are great runners, smoke like crazy even from the steam chests, and have a great whistle and bell. Of course I have one for sale so I might be a little predigest.

I will second Lionel's 0-8-0 locomotives.  Great choice of road names, good runner, running gear detail and good sounds.

 

TEX

Steve

I like the "Atlantics." They seem at home on any radius curve and look good pulling freight (which they did in real-life, I believe, later in the game) or passenger consists, no matter what the length of car.

FrankM

That's a good point Bob.  I'm fine with semi-scale.  Although, scale would be nice, but for the purpose of a budget minded conventional runner, I'm not holding our for scale as I assume it wouldn't be as affordable (e.g. my two ps3 diesels and one ps3 steamer are all semi-scale starter set engines, and my F7 ABA and FA-1 AA are both Williams).  Not too concerned about detail or prototype, and to be completely shallow...a decent 'looker' would be nice.

 

I especially appreciate the suggestions of the Lionel Berks, 0-8-0's and the Conventional Classics line engines, as well as the photos.  Please feel free to share more conventional running steam favorites if you can...sorry for the long reply.

Thanks,

Robert

As others have mentioned the Lionel 0-8-0's are a great choice, they run smooth, they are close to scale, and they have good smoke. Another good one from Lionel is the 2-8-4 Berkshire. They made quite a few such as the regular polar express and some others. One with good smoke effects is the Polar Express with whistle steam effect. I made this video am while ago on my old layout and have more videos of it on my channel. If you want the best smoke I reccomend JT's Mega Steam which is all I use now and what I used in this video. At first I did have some problems with the smoke regulator board in this engine, I assume something shorted and smoke started coming out of the cab but no problems after it was fixed. I have seen these whistle smoke engines for as low as $240 on eBay and regular Berkshire jrs will go for less. 

MY choice in the $300.00 range for a conventional steam locomotive is hands down, the Lionel Mikado Jr. I have the Union Pacific version 6-28684. It is a VERY smooth runner, will pull stumps and has Railsounds. The MSRP was $259.99, and I found them for as little as $195.00. These are a Nicely detailed locomotives.

 

 

Doug

I do like the conventional smaller Lionel steamers that were new molds in the last 12 or 13 years based on common steam designs. The newer NYC style Hudson from 2000, the Van S. Berk first in the Polar Express set. The new 0-8-0 USRA design and the the 2-8-2 usra mikado. I guess the 0-6-0T  docksider could be included.  

A Usra Pacific would be a nice addition to this group.

One engine I like that has not been mentioned is the Britsh style 4-6-0 like the Harry Potter set   It is a good runner has great steam and looks pretty.

Let me add nearly all of the original K-Line steamers both scale and semi scale. Most all were offered conventional and many with TMCC. Most all have two puff puffer units that can be improved with the resistor change, resistor sleeve removal, and enlarging the breather hole. They are smooth runners and most can be found well under your price range today including the conventional scale engines. They did nice semi scale Hudsons, Mikados, and pacifics.

 

Here's their semi scale hudson with die cast tender.

 

 

Pete

Please pardon the slight topic hi-jack...

 

Norton:

 

Where can I learn more about that 0-8-0 in the Lionel starter set?  Thanks.

 

Andre

I have 4 Williams steam engines - Girls set 2-6-4, a Berkshire, a Semi-Scale Hudson, and a Ten-Wheeler.  I like them all.  Not a fan of True Blast relative to modern sounds and whistles, but it's OK compared with PW air whistles.  Great values.

 

I agree with the post about the K-Line conventionals.  I came close to buying a semi-scale Hudson because of its great looks, but I just don't need another all-black steam engine, particularly not another Hudson.

Andre, they were offered in quite a few sets. The NYC version has the upgraded valve gear and Trainsounds.

Others came with with simplified valve gear and an air whistle, and a few with the air whistle but upgraded valve gear. All can be found on the auction sites as separate sale items for 90-120 bucks. They come with a small but surprising powerful motor and a single traction tire. I upgraded mine with the motor from the scale version and a second traction tire. I also replaced the carbon coated resistor with a 27 ohm wire wound unit.

 

 

 

 

Pete

Thanks Norton/Pete.

 

Assuming those engines can run smooth n' slow... that engine could make a great switcher for a small urban switching Hi-Rail theme.  Interesting!

No sweat Andre...in fact you read my mind (i.e. where to learn more about Lionel 0-8-0 starter set engines).  I could stand to do some reading up on those, and othe Lionel conventional steamers.

 

The Lionel Mikado Jr that Challenger posted is very sharp, and indeed looks like a highly detailed steamer given the price range.  I don't know much of anything about K-Line engines and steamers.  I assume they're only available in the secondary market these days?

 

Liam, thanks for the video. I will definitely check out your youtube channel. I take it that's the 2-8-4 Berkshire from the Polar Express set? The steam whistle is very cool!  Similar to the Hogwarts Express that Silver Lake mentioned, those seem like good values as engines or sets.

 

So here's a relative newb question, is TMCC a conventional transformer control system, or does it require a command control transformer or unit to access effects?

I gather Railsounds is a sound package similar to Williams TBII...not in quality so much as in type...a "conventional running" sound package.  If that's accurate to say.

 

Thanks for all the great ideas on economical, conventional running steamers folks!  I've still got a lot to learn.

Robert

A TMCC engine will run with either Command or Conventional. You loose a few of the effects like crew talk and coupler clank when running in conventional. Railsounds are the better sounds. Trainsounds are a step down but can be accessed in conventional. They are significantly better than TBII which is way down the ladder. Trainsounds quality vary by engine but the ones in the 0-8-0 are very good with clear and varied crew talk, OK whistle and bell.

 

Pete

The majority of my conventional steamers are Lionel LTI production pieces, like the 18005 1-700E scale Hudson, 18018 Southern Mikado, and 18000 scale B-6 Switcher. These three as well as others from their period can usually be found at bargain prices, interesting to maintain, and run pretty smooth and pull decently. The old RailSounds 1.0 are outdated, but for me its good nostalgia.

 

In terms of newer conventional steamers, I'd have to go with the starter set engines and baby Mikados by Lionel as well as the 4-6-0's by Williams, like everyone else here has posted.

I was pleasantly surprised at the quality of the Lionel dockside 0-6-0.  Runs like a top.

The Lionel Docksider 0-6-0T is another Excellent choice, It is actually HEAVIER and will OUT PULL the starter set 0-8-0. The docksider is another smooth running nicely detailed locomotive, and had an MSRP of only $109.99, and often found for less than $100.00 Probably the best buy in O Gauge.

 

 I had two loops of 082 and 072 around our Dining and Family rooms, gave me about 13x24 at Christmas, it handled 41 cars without any trouble at all. Later 46 cars did cause it to over heat, fortunately it didn't seem to suffer any permanent damage, and again runs great. Tough, hard working little engines. The sound(or lack there of) system is their only real downside, just a doorbell buzzer sounding whistle, no chug or bell.

 

 The Docksider is small, but modeled after a small locomotive, and I believe they are scale size, or Very close to it.

 

Doug

The quality - heft, feel, materials, of the Lionel 0-6-0 docksider is superb.  I have two now and like them.  They are tiny however, and not scale, and basic but heavy and durable.  I was running mine this weekend and noticed that while it pulls well it has the greatest variation in throttle need of anything I run.  What I mean is that, alone, pulling nothing, it will charge along at a scale 60 mph at maybe only 9 volts.  Put a few cars behind it and it needs 12 to 13.  A few more and it needs 15-16.  Point: it really needs a lot more voltage to pull harder. So when pulling an eight-car train, it slows very noticeably up hills, etc.  My other smaller locos(none have cruise) do the same thing - but to a far lesser degree, needing only a bit more voltage to pull more cars and slowing much less on 2 to 3 percent uphill slope.  

 

 

The Lionel "docksider" is tiny but so was the prototype. It appears to be scale. It does have a very small motor. Without a direct comparison it could be smaller than the one used in 0-8-0. The one on the left comes with the starter set 0-8-0.

 

 

If the 0-8-0 pulls less than the Docksider its due to the single traction tire vs the dual tires on the Docksider. With dual tires my 0-8-0 will pull at least eight 18" heavyweight passengers cars.

 

Pete

MB Klein has a RailKing Imperial USRA 0-6-0 for $369:

 

http://www.modeltrainstuff.com...e-p/mth-301499-1.htm

 

I have one and it's a fine looking/running engine:

 

 

And smokes very well (although I've stopped using the smoke on all my engines).

Image:	Price:	Title:	Details:
ZOOM	$349.95	C&O 2-6-0 MOGUL STEAM LOCOMOTIVES www.patstrains.com/View_Detail...Details=View+Details	Stock Number: 6-11271 Gauge: O/O-27 Gauge Manufacturer: Lionel Product Type: Locomotives Availability: In Stock

THESE ARE GREAT ENGINES FOR THE MONEY.

WWW.PATSTRAINS.COM

Two RailKing 0-6-0's  One is an upgraded Imperial model.

My Dockside switcher has never run out of traction - it simply does not spin or slip nor lack power for anything I ask it to pull - although I have never asked it to pull eight passenger cars (and frankly would not hold it against it if it could not pull them up the 2.5% 30 foot slope it has to negotiate).  Very simply it just needs a lot more throttle variation depending on the loading it is pulling than any of most other steamers.  The Hall class, which also have smaller motors than most, is the closest to acting the same way.

 

I have two of each of: the Lionel 0-4-0, the MTH RK 0-6-0, and the Lionel RTR 0-8-0.  I'd like to have a 0-10-0, too, if I could find on make one.  Anyway, the best of the bunch is the 0-4-0 but of course it cost about as much as the other two put together, but all are quite nice little switchers.

I am interested: Why did you stop using the smoke? I have my thoughts, but I wonder what your take is. Thanks.

Why did you stop using the smoke?

Mainly because it was getting all over the trains and the track.  I didn't mind the oil getting on the trains as much as I disliked having to clean the track afterwards.

 

Another thing is I lost my sense of smell a few years back (sinus infection) and things that should smell good, don't (like my wife's expensive perfume).  I had a bottle of coal smoke and it just didn't smell like coal smoke to me.  Most perfumes these days smell like dirty mop water to me

 

Lionel PostWar 726  -  736  -  773.

 

Best bets.

The K-Line scale Mikados and Hudsons are great locomotives.

I have a J1e that I upgraded to PS-2 and it runs just great.

It would make a really nice conventional engine as well.

 

Rod

Thank you guys for all the replies!  Thanks to Norton for the info on TMCC, Railsounds and Trainsounds...I've still got a lot to learn.  I think my first modern Lionel will be a steam engine in this range. 

 

I ended up going with the Williams Baldwin 4-6-0.  Although I've only run it a couple times so far, it seems to be a great conventional steam engine.  I had read up on some of Lee's and others' posts regarding the Williams ten wheeler, and have been happy with the reliable perfomance of convetional Williams so far.  I have to say I'm very pleased.

 

The seuthe smoke unit gives a much better effect than I expected...I did manage to find this video on youtube prior to ordering, and that kind of clinched it for me...

 

Not mine, but hopefully that posts.  The first thing I noticed is it starts off without the hum and lug of my other Williams conventionals (F7 & FA-1).  A very nice quiet rolling start and very smooth runner as y'all have mentioned and has been posted here.

 

The on/off switch for the smoke is a nice feature as is the direction lock out switch, and the colors are really sharp on the C&O No 377.  I envisioned this pulling 'around the tree' duty at Christmas, but it runs so smooth I expect it to see a good deal more action than that.

 

The whistle and bell are probably the best surprise so far.  They sound really good to my novice ear.  The engine does seem to run at a lower overall speed (especially compared to my dual motor, not wired in series F units).  It's still plenty fast for me, and it's not even broken in yet.  

 

I appreciate all the suggestions and advise, as I can see myself ending up with a small fleet of conventional steamers...I'm leaning towards the Mikado or a 0-8-0 Lionel for my first all black steamer.  I'd like to find a nice ATSF line unit after some more reading and researching.

Thanks,

Robert