This is an annoying aesthetic...was this just a result of cheap-ness? Kind of lame...
Does anyone go to the trouble to paint these things?
Maybe just a magic marker would cover it up?
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Without a picture I have no idea what you're talking about.
This thing...rather conspicuous.
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Paint it black, and it will no longer be conspicuous.
Originally posted by Roving Sign:
This is an annoying aesthetic...was this just a result of cheap-ness?
Maybe just a magic marker would cover it up?
Not cheap. It was Lionel MPC's adaptation of the EMD F/GP unit Pulmor motor truck to hold the diesel front pilots. It's thick sheet metal. If the pilot attachment was to be made cheap, the Plastic Steps/Pilot would have grown sprues to attach to the motor truck and would easily fracture upon any impact.
Yes you could use marker or black paint to cover it up if the sheet metal annoys you.
prrhorseshoecurve posted:Originally posted by Roving Sign:
This is an annoying aesthetic...was this just a result of cheap-ness?
Maybe just a magic marker would cover it up?Not cheap. It was Lionel MPC's adaptation of the EMD F/GP unit Pulmor motor truck to hold the diesel front pilots. It's thick sheet metal. If the pilot attachment was to be made cheap, the Plastic Steps/Pilot would have grown sprues to attach to the motor truck and would easily fracture upon any impact.
Yes you could use marker or black paint to cover it up if the sheet metal annoys you.
Yeah - I guess I would have expected it to be painted at the factory...that's the reference to cheap-ness Im referring to...glad to hear it was to make the truck more robust.
Can you imagine the outcry if LIONEL delivered a product like that today? (who knows maybe they do!)
prrhorseshoecurve posted:Not cheap. It was Lionel MPC's adaptation of the EMD F/GP unit Pulmor motor truck to hold the diesel front pilots. It's thick sheet metal. If the pilot attachment was to be made cheap, the Plastic Steps/Pilot would have grown sprues to attach to the motor truck and would easily fracture upon any impact.
Ok - was there a problem with the older trucks (as you described)?
I noticed my MPC Rectifier has the same trucks - but no silver plate...
Roving Sign, you have to consider that in the 1970's, Lionel was a completely different company just as the 3-rail market place was an entirely different place. Whether it is better today or not, depends on your perspective.
That said, if you don't wish to take the engine apart, take some isopropyl alcohol and use a Q-Tip to clean the surface of that sheet metal plate. Then use some Testor's flat black enamel paint with a small brush to paint it. You might be able to use the more easily accessible acrylic paint, but it will probably take a couple of coats and won't be as durable against scratching. But given the location of that piece, that might not be such as issue. If you have a Sharpie, you could try that, but a paint brush will allow better access without having to remove the trucks.
I've used Testor's enamel on the same vintage MPC steam engines with the sheet metal motor frames that weren't blackened. I don't pull the engine apart... I just paint the areas that are easily visible. Given the low costs of these sorts of locomotives - especially in today's market, it isn't too much of a bother for me to do this sort of thing.
Roving Sign posted:prrhorseshoecurve posted:Originally posted by Roving Sign:
This is an annoying aesthetic...was this just a result of cheap-ness?
Maybe just a magic marker would cover it up?Not cheap. It was Lionel MPC's adaptation of the EMD F/GP unit Pulmor motor truck to hold the diesel front pilots. It's thick sheet metal. If the pilot attachment was to be made cheap, the Plastic Steps/Pilot would have grown sprues to attach to the motor truck and would easily fracture upon any impact.
Yes you could use marker or black paint to cover it up if the sheet metal annoys you.
Yeah - I guess I would have expected it to be painted at the factory...that's the reference to cheap-ness Im referring to...glad to hear it was to make the truck more robust.
Can you imagine the outcry if LIONEL delivered a product like that today? (who knows maybe they do!)
Actually, look at the handrails on that engine....the rest of the engine itself.your worried about a little tin showing. Lol -
Roving Sign posted:...I noticed my MPC Rectifier has the same trucks - but no silver plate...
Different trucks. The rectifiers have the old vertical motor GP style solid motor block with the separate 2028 style motor. The MPC integrated motor/truck(8030-100) was derived from the 600 series switcher/center cab motor which is a folded stamping. The steps are from the 600 series center cab / GE "44 Tonner"(which was almost twice as large as it should have been).
shawn posted:Roving Sign posted:prrhorseshoecurve posted:Originally posted by Roving Sign:
This is an annoying aesthetic...was this just a result of cheap-ness?
Maybe just a magic marker would cover it up?Not cheap. It was Lionel MPC's adaptation of the EMD F/GP unit Pulmor motor truck to hold the diesel front pilots. It's thick sheet metal. If the pilot attachment was to be made cheap, the Plastic Steps/Pilot would have grown sprues to attach to the motor truck and would easily fracture upon any impact.
Yes you could use marker or black paint to cover it up if the sheet metal annoys you.
Yeah - I guess I would have expected it to be painted at the factory...that's the reference to cheap-ness Im referring to...glad to hear it was to make the truck more robust.
Can you imagine the outcry if LIONEL delivered a product like that today? (who knows maybe they do!)
Actually, look at the handrails on that engine....the rest of the engine itself. Your worried about a little shiny steel showing. Lol - that engine is as real as Santa Claus!
Ironically - the only reason I picked these up was for the green - which I thought would look good with a Christmas Layout...have some Christmas Steamers - but no Diesels...green was close enough!
But - yeah - over the years those pressed sheet metal handrails start to look more fake...hard to believe they still make stuff like this!
When you put your locomotive on the tracks, are the sheet metal parts really that visible?
As Rob, wrote, the design goes back to the 1950's. Don't think I've ever seen one that was colored anything other than natural aluminum. I have seen some so dirty that they looked gray or black 
.
And a marker will turn the aluminum more purple than black. Getting it on thick enough to be black will take many coats of marker ink and likely have silver streaks shining through it a anyhow. I'd paint it.
Realistic or not, clean & shining metal can be a visual distraction on top of that.
A 70 year old design that is near bullet proof... Yep, useless; even with kids and precariously place track at your feet around a tree full of distractions 
I get the feeling some folk's heads would pop if they saw any tinplate near their layout 
Take a look at any 600 series switcher, the 44 tonners, or some of the GP's going back to about 1955. Same design, most were unpainted aluminum.
But - yeah - over the years those pressed sheet metal handrails start to look more fake...hard to believe they still make stuff like this!
That Lionel BN U-36B diesel was made in 1976-77. There are newer locomotives made today without the pressed sheet metal handrails BUT you will pay MORE for them. If this bothers you so much, why did you buy this engine? You certainly could have found a green locomotive without stamped handrails, and most likely you would have paid MUCH more for it.
Yeah, Lionel should just do away with the stamped handrails and everything else that isn't precise scale, and price the starter sets beginning at $1,000 for a low cost set. Lionel would go out of business tomorrow. But at least people wouldn't be able to complain about Lionel anymore.
Now let's put things in perspective. When Lionel finished the K-Line KCC locomotive (I think an SD-70MAC) which was BARGAIN priced for the type of loco it was, Jerry Calabrese of Lionel said they made just over 3,000 pieces which he called an extremely large production run for a scale locomotive. The scale market IS NOT as big as many here supposedly THINK it is. You're not just paying for a scale car or loco... you're paying for the tooling costs, which are bigger than most here think.
Lionel trains were toys, replications, approximately scale... pretty much until Lionel moved to China, whereas they then could afford to spend the money on new tooling for these new scale proportioned products. People complain about prices for the new scale cars, when the prices for many traditional cars are just $5-$10 less. The traditional line from Lionel has been helping to subsidize the tooling costs on the high end.
There an another thread asking if you would go to HO? If I had really wanted scale fidelity, I would have gone to HO decades ago, where the market is HUGE and therefore can justify the quantity and accuracy of the trains. BUT I wanted toy trains. And most people who bought Lionel over the past decades wanted the same. And I think the majority today still do, you just don't hear their voices on this forum.
And I can't believe I'm having to justify "traditional" trains on the hi-rail, 027 and traditional 3-rail O gauge forum. There are people who actually like traditional types of trains. I thought this WAS the forum for these kinds of trains. Maybe we should post on the 3-rail scale sub-forum... you can hear the crickets chirping over there it's so dead.
brianel_k-lineguy posted:But - yeah - over the years those pressed sheet metal handrails start to look more fake...hard to believe they still make stuff like this!
That Lionel BN U-36B diesel was made in 1976-77. There are newer locomotives made today without the pressed sheet metal handrails BUT you will pay MORE for them. If this bothers you so much, why did you buy this engine? You certainly could have found a green locomotive without stamped handrails, and most likely you would have paid MUCH more for it.
Sorry if I've offended anyone with my somewhat sarcastic critique of this model...
I doesn't "upset" me - but just curious how they ended up shipping something with this glaring shiny part.
I've had a few U36bs and I knew it was like this - but was just wondering...and yes I have the 44 toners...more or less the same feature.
But the price was right for this set green BN set - 7 pieces - loco, dummy, caboose, and 4 boxcars...150 bucks - not bad.
Not sure how anyone got the idea that I was "upset"...jeeeezzz.
If it makes everyone feel better - I also bought the very ugly late MTH BNSF SD70 for the Christmas Layout...nicer details...green trucks and all!!!
"Magic Marker"? Whatever happened to flat black paint and a brush?
Not to mention that if you used a "marker" on this bright aluminum it would wind up looking like...you used a marker on bright aluminum.
Even the paint might take 2 coats.
Back in the 70's when I was buying lots of MPC I alway painted those frames flat black. When they were new you also had to get the oil off them first. Easy job and helps a lot. Have fun with it. Don
Saw this on Ebay....
...and assume it's the ugly duckling you're concerned about. Apparently the garish stamping was used rather extensively in that era. Clearly the factory would've had a major problem painting this AFTER it was run through all of the subsequent assembly operations...not the least of which is the motor.
Which leads me to wonder that the part was left unpainted for improved electrical continuity rail-to-motor. Of course the use of a chemical blackening process might have been an alternative....but perhaps too expensive for the more austere manufacturing operations Lionel had available in that era. MPC....Make Pretty Cheap?
Agree with prior posts.....clean the exposed offending areas with alcohol, small bottle of flat black enamel, small paint brush, cold can of Yuengling, favorite background music, bada bing, bada boom.
Lucas Gudinov
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Keep in mind that this is back when these were still toy trains and not scale models.
C W Burfle posted:When you put your locomotive on the tracks, are the sheet metal parts really that visible?
As Rob, wrote, the design goes back to the 1950's. Don't think I've ever seen one that was colored anything other than natural aluminum. I have seen some so dirty that they looked gray or black
Additionally, starting in 1970 the frame stamping of the GP(and the following U-Boat & other kin) was modified to be turned down instead of up along the handrails. This tended to hide the silver colored stampings to some degree while on the track. It was a rather exciting time to get such beautiful graphics and so many new roadnames coming at us in the 1970s that such details were rather inconsequential at the time, but in retrospect, give a very telling story on how MPC & FunDimensions kept Lionel alive.
Back in the 80's and 90's when I was hot 'n heavy into MPC, the silver bracket never bothered me because I was having too much fun with the trains.
Rusty
Does this part come off the truck or is it fixed?
Roving Sign posted:Does this part come off the truck or is it fixed?
Dunno for sure, but the photo I attached above seems to indicate it's staked to the truck sideframes (black squares with the "+" in the center where they were staked. Besides, if it's just the visible portions when sitting on the track that bother you, I'd just paint those surfaces and forget the rest.
It is swedged on posts; the "frame top". It can be done, but not easily. Reassembly might need screw holes, tap, or blind rivit, etc.
Bright steamer frames bothered me more 
I don't think I ever bothered to blacken one, but it did make me choose other locos run sometimes.
ahh forgot about the nicer picture - yes I see - they are staked.
Some creative masking - or a brush will be in order.
Roving Sign posted:Does this part come off the truck or is it fixed?
dkdkrd posted:Roving Sign posted:Does this part come off the truck or is it fixed?
Dunno for sure, but the photo I attached above seems to indicate it's staked to the truck sideframes (black squares with the "+" in the center where they were staked. Besides, if it's just the visible portions when sitting on the track that bother you, I'd just paint those surfaces and forget the rest.
It's the frame/chassis of the motor! It doesn't come off! Everything - the field, the sideframes, the lower bearing carrier and axle supports are all staked to it!
That metal plate is the core of the whole motor truck assembly.
The motor's field is staked to it, as is the gearbox underneath.
Then there are the decorative side frames (staked), and the decorative steps (riveted)
My advice: don't disassemble those trucks for trivial reasons. If you distort any parts and get the field or gearbox out of alignment on reassembly, then the truck becomes a parts source.
If you want to paint the plate, just paint around the attached parts.
If brush strokes are a worry, thin your paint just a touch. It may take more coats to cover, but should flatten smoothy.
I had a hard time accepting the swinging pilots on toy train diesels when I first started with 3 rail O gauge.
