When did lionel start scale engine production

The first scale engine outside of the Hudson was the Reading T-1. I don't know the year.

Scott Smith

Scott, the year was 1989, which was also the year Lionel redid the scale B-6 and introduced RailSounds.

Re diesels, the Lionel F-3, FM Train Master, GP-7/9, and the NW-2 were all close to scale size and introduced from the late 40's through mid 50's.  I know for sure that the FM Train Master was converted to both 2 rail and outside 3rd by scale modelers in the 50's, possibly some of the other diesels as well.  If you are talking about more detailed engines, the Weaver RS-3 may have been 1st.  It was more detailed then the early MTH production diesels.

If I recall correctly the T-1 was part of the 1989 "Collector Line" made by Mike Wolf for Lionel.

 

Ron

When Lionel was reissuing the scale Hudson and Pennsy B6 shifter, CEO Richard Kughn was one of four owners of the first Reading T-1, No. 2100. Mr. Kughn and Mike Wolf brought out a scale model of No. 2100 in 1989. That was the largest locomotive ever made by Lionel, and other scale locomotives followed. My T-1 has benefited from three talented Forumites. Reading Steam Guru repainted and detailed her as No. 2124, the first to pull the Reading's renowned Iron Horse Rambles. Wowak added full working Walschaerts valve gear, white "special" flags, a scale pilot coupler, and a scale brass whistle. Jeffrey D. Steinbacher of J.D.S. Limited Productions installed a fan-driven smoke unit and (as long as he was inside the smokebox anyway) an LED headlight.

 

By the late 1960's, no one wanted to buy electric trains. Besides, there were plenty of old trains to go around. Lionel acquired American Flyer from the disintegrating A. C. Gilbert Company in 1967 and almost went under as well. In 1969, General Mills, the breakfast cereal company, acquired the molds, tools and manufacturing rights to Lionel Trains from The Lionel Toy Corporation. Breakfast cereal companies loved kids (and still do). General Mills hoped Lionel trains would be appeal to adults who had been kids in Lionel's heyday in the 1950's. General Mills Model Products Division (MPC) made plastic model kits of the Starship Enterprise, among others, and Lionel trains found a new home there. New painting and decaling "eye washed" new customers. "Fast Angle" wheels affixed to axles and needlepoint axle bearings made cars much easier to pull. MPC appropriated American Flyer's "Pull-Mor" slogan for Lionel motors. Legal and appealing but jarring to Lionel fans of the 1950's.

 

But even in the lush days of the 1950's, Lionel could not make a new 700E at a price customers would pay. Semi-scale No. 773 was produced to celebrate Lionel's 50th anniversary in 1950. In a desperate appeal to customers, No. 773 was made again in 1964 with a 2046W tender that looked much too small. Madison Hardware offered scale Hudson tenders with or without whistles. Some operators feared burning out an armature due to the tenders' weight. Not until the late 1980's were there enough customers to make a new "scale" steamer profitable.

 

These early "scale" locomotives had "Pull-Mor" open-frame AC/DC motors like previous locomotives, rudimentary Railsounds, and no traction tires.

 

No one in the late 1960's and early 1970's even dreamed of all the trains we have today, and certainly not 21st-century sounds and command control.

 

It's hard to believe how far we have come since 1990. Nothing short of amazing.

Great job on that T-1!!!  I just picked up one of those, and I have been thinking that full valve gear would be nice.

What where some of the first big scale diesels lionel made?

That would probably be the ALCO PA-1 introduced by Lionel in 1992. Like the T-1, it was also made under agreement with Mike Wolf.
Same with the Multiple-Unit electric powered commuter cars from the year before.

I'd say the FM Train Master, 1954.

That would be the 700e scale Hudson, 1937.

I agree with Central Fan1976.  1937 was the year, the 700e was the item, and they continued with the 0-6-0 switcher, and various freight cars until production shut down for WWII.

The OP clearly stated "... other than the hudson."

 

Ron

How about 1937

I sometimes wonder what direction the Lionel product line would have taken if the War hadn't interrupted things.

 

First off, Lionel OO might have caught on after the war. It probably would've been for the better in the long run, considering by the end of the 50's the move from O to HO began.

Speaking of that, I think it's about time Lionel redid the B-6 with all the new features. I've often thought that a Vision Line steam switcher would be a great idea because it could be loaded with features and yet the smaller size would make a bit more affordable. I think the B-6 would be a great choice...especially given it's significance in the history of Lionel command control. Just a thought.

 

-Eric Siegel

To me there was always a big difference between scale proportion and "scale-detailed”. The technical answer to both is indeed the 1937 700E Hudson, but we are all already well aware of that model so it's understandable the OP wants to hear some others. I'll chime in and say the first true step in the modern "scale detailed" style was the 1999 Allegheny. That also happens to be the very model that allegedly sparked the entire lawsuit, so there's some fun history there.

This is very interesting, because, Although The 1937 700e was a Sorta Scale Model, Mike Wolf while working for Lionel, in 1989 On Started the 3 RAIL scale Movement....This was the right timing because We Senior Kids, had the Money This time Around to help Support the Great Strides to The Scale Look. Atlas O, Weavwe, 3Rd Rail, Williams Brass, K -Line,

My Feelings, With the TMCC, DCS Systems, Was the true beginning of allowing us to control Our trains in a more Protypical Manner. Lou Kovach connected with Lionel to Really Enhance the Scale Movement where 2 or More Can Play.....Today is the best of Times, I am Well Pleased with The Way, all the Manufacturers are Competing for Our $$$$. Happy Railroading. Happy Holidays.

 

I agree Eric.

 

It's been 25 years since Lionel did this engine, and just like the Hudson, it might be possible to use some of the US tooling as well as the improved overseas tooling to incorporate things like the swinging bell and smoking whistle. Though I don't think there would be much room for anything else considering its size. I guess we'll see if it's possible or not. Like you said, it was a huge part of Lionel's long history.

Wow, i was wrong. Thanks for the information, however, was the 700E 3 rail or 2 rail?

i remember Kemtron Brass, and there were other 2 Rail Scale O GUAGE engines. My mind was in Lionel, MTH, ATLAS O, Weaver, 3Rd Rail/Sunset Models, being able to run in TMCC, DCS, LEGACY...

Thank You for your input.  There is a lot of things I am unfamiliar with, this is one. I enjoy Learning.  Happy Railroading.....

The 700E was originally inside 3rd rail, although I have seen one equipped for outside 3rd rail - I don't know if that was a factory option or aftermarket.  I also have seen two of them that were converted for two rail.  Also, All Nation/General Models offered two and three rail versions of their locos.  I'm guessing that the 0-6-0T was Kemtron.  It was advertised in RMC in the early 60's.  There were a few other Japanese brass 3 rail engines.  These were probably produced in very small numbers.  I have a model of an electric interurban from that time period with center 3rd rail pickups.

 

Anyway, back to the original question about Lionel, After the 700E would have been the B-6, then no more scale sized steam until 1989.  That would have been the re-release of the B-6 plus the all new T-1, then the Mohawk came along a bit later, then the re-release of the Hudson.

For the modern era (outside of prewar/postwar designs), in 1982 or so Lionel came out with the 8265 Santa Fe SD40 which was pretty close to scale. This was then followed up with the 2-motor version in UP in 1983. The scale size 17000 freights also started not too soon after.

 

Peter 

While many of the points brought up above are correct, Lionel's main stream production of scale items on a continuous basis happened in 1998 when Lionel took a 3 mil profit loss as the competition blew right through with satisfying market demands for scale o gauge trains. People were upset of the over/undersized and overpriced offerings that Lionel was trying to pimp on the market at that time and voted with their wallets.

The Lionel 751E M-1000 streamlined passenger set was also scale, and that predated the 700E scale Hudson.

I forgot about that one.  The power car was a pretty good replica, at a time (1934?) when toy trains were just approximate representations of real trains.  

Oh, what was it, I saw on here, the 4-4-2 Hiawatha train set and engine from the 1930's, the engine was scale, but not the tender or cars.

 

The M-10,000 was also built to 17/64 inch scale (the  O gauge track is very close to 4 feet 8 and one-half inches at this scale) so it is quite a bit larger than the modern variants built to 1/4 inch scale. The M-10,000 dates to 1934.

 

In 1935 the Hiawatha came out which was also built to scale as mentioned previously.