Where to start

John C,

It depends upon ones goals.  I will say you are right to warn someone, but OP is just starting and may or may not know he wants Premier/Legacy/Scale.  But he should definitely consider it before spending too much either way.  That is also a LOT of money to dump into starting out.  One stated above to just buy used, also some decent advice.  I have decided i *might* want some scale in some cases, but for the most part I am probably going to be happy with MTH Railking as they are close enough to scale or are scale and will suit me well enough.  You are also posting in the Hi RAIL, 027 and Traditional Forum! 

Actually send me an email with what you have for sale if it is MTH, email in my profile.

bigkid posted:

I think one of the most important questions is what do you intend on doing with this? Are you planning to run it during the holiday season only, are you going to put the starter set on a table of some sort and keep it up, with the hope of eventually building a layout if you enjoy it? I appreciate the spirit of John C's post, but at this point I don't think the OP is even thinking about a layout, he seems to want to get a starter set to 'play with', and a lot depends on the how of that.

Is it going to be a carpet central ie floor layout? Then you want a track system relatively easy to put together and take apart and can take the 'primitive' conditions, fast track was designed for that kind of running, tubular obviously was designed around that, Atlas Industrial rail might be rugged enough. On the other hand, if putting it onto a tabletop then you may want something different, something that later on could be part of a larger layout, then you may like something like Atlas track or MTH realtrax (or whatever..). 

 

Keep in mind that some starter sets come with track and power supply/transformer, some don't, and if you buy a starter set with track, you won't have to worry about that. 

I would look at Lionel and MTH and seeing what is available and what catches your eye, to be honest at this point that might be the best bet. I like the idea of getting something with lionchief+ or DCS commander, because the remote control operation is a lot of fun and a great way to get introduced to it. I would find something you like, and then depending on whether it comes with track or not, make a decision about that. One thing, a lot of starter sets come with a basic circle or oval of track, you may want to buy some more track for it to make it more interesting (I don't know about MTH, but Lionel was offering at one point "expansion packs" designed around expanding a basic set of fast track, that might include a couple of manual switches and track to make a siding). 

If you feel the bug coming on, then the advice John C and others gave is great, but as someone else said, walk before you run

 

 

I figured i would start with a rtr because it can get me in the door and give me enough to use around the tree this year.

I am not sure of  the time i want to model. i live outside detroit so all i see is modern stuff so i think i might want to do that for a layout at  the end.  My wife's grandfather built a scale that you can ride on and it's steam so if she had her  call i would model steam.

I am currently renting a small house so i don't have space now to build a layout but will be moving in the summer and that house will have space for a layout and i wanted to start but be in a budget until i know what way i will go. 

diverging thoughts and opinions are great actually, they make the world go 'round as long as everyone is tolerant and open minded.  it helps others make informed decisions as long as those others understand they are also opinions!

John C. posted:

Again, without intending to upset anyone’s sensitivities, far too many model railroaders end up with a hodge-podge miss-mesh collection of railroad and rolling stock from the beginning of time to the modern day.  Their layouts aren’t very good as it is an illogical collection of unrelated items and time periods placed together.

.  .  .

If you actually want to build a great model of a railroad, not just circle without rhyme or reason, you must first decide what it is you want and what you want your layout to look like when it’s completed.

People that haphazardly throw track arrangements together, via trial and error, will be disappointed in the end as they keep changing the arrangement over and over again seeking the perfect track plan that they will never find.

These are good points. What I would add though, is that there is no reason to be ashamed if you find yourself simply mesmerized by the train going 'round and 'round. Some people could watch that all day, and the more trains, and more road names, circling about, the better they like it. It that's you, great! You have achieved the most important goal of the hobby--fun! You may even find that you enjoy haphazardly changing the track arrangement of your "carpet central", so that now the train goes around the tree, now behind the piano, now around the legs of the end tables....

However, if you find, as some do, that you get bored with all that, and that you wish your trains did something, then it can be a lot of fun to learn about real railroads, and to create a layout that in some way simulates them. In that case, all of John's advice is very good. But we all started with the circle.

I agree with everything John C said, but it seems directed at someone who already knows he/she wants to build a model railroad of some sort and not just someone who might not want to go further than a Christmas tree circle. I don't regret buying the set I did, but I was disappointed with the track it included. It was RealTrax, but my impression would have been the same had it been FasTrack or the stuff that came with my American Flyer set 60 years ago. My mistake was adding pieces at the time of purchase instead of waiting. Fortunately, I didn't add that much, so it was only a fairly small waste of money and satisfied me through 3 Christmas seasons, so I guess it really wasn't a waste after all.

I don't remember now what drew me to MTH, but once I saw it in my LHS, new at the time, I was hooked. I'm not drawn to any particular road, era or operation. I'm going to have 4, maybe 5 engines, period. One will be Old West style passenger 4-4-0, a couple of diesels (Veteran's SD70 for one), my Christmas passenger 4-6-0 and maybe a 3rd diesel. My goal was to have at least 1 steamer for the smoke, but diesels will be the main runners. Like my clothes, I don't care what matches. If I like a boxcar, I'll put it on the track. I don't care if they go around in circles, I just want an over/under feature with a bridge and the ability for 3 trains to run unattended with me controlling a 4th. They will all be RailKing rated for O31, so they will run on any brand track and any layout (except O27 I guess). If I decide to pursue a garage layout at some point, then I'll revisit the number of engines, etc.

Slayers, I don't think you can really go wrong with any set sold today, just give some thought to what will look nice under the tree for years to come and what will lend itself to expansion. The passenger set I bought is pretty limited. I have all the cars for it, so it's done. The coloring is Christmas, so it's somewhat limited to the holidays. If you don't really care all that much about smoke, then get a nice diesel set. Check to see if there are any clubs around. I don't know where in MI you live, but there should be something where you could maybe take a day trip. Even if it's not O gauge, someone might be able to give you a reference. If you get an MTH set, be advised that you will not be able to use all the engine features unless you upgrade to the full DCS remote. The advantage to buying a set is that it comes with everything you need. I don't know if I could have saved money buying everything individually. I'm not even sure I could have bought the engine separately. The only piece I really don't use is the remote because I upgraded within the month.

Well, John C., you did over complicate it. The original poster never said he wanted us to plan his railroad. He just wanted input on the best starter set.

And there is an underlying tone in your post that too many people are doing it wrong with their "mish-mash" of mixed-era, mixed-roads trains on circles of track.

Nothin wrong with that at all. A lot of us in the 3-rail realm don't want the "fun" of complex operations. It's that's your thing, that's fine, too. (I tried it in N scale. It didn't hold my interest.)

So, again, for the original poster, I say buy what you like, whether it's an MTH or Lionel starter set. Asking for a recommendation is fine, and I hope everyone sticks to that intent from here forward and gives you recommendations about such specific sets.

For Lionel, I recommend the current LionChief Polar Express set or one of the sets with a LionChief 0-6-0 Dockside loco. $300 or less.

For MTH, I would recommend one of the Docksider sets produced from 1999 to circa 2004 (solid rail RealTrax with Z-500) if you can find one. They originally retailed for about $150. Others have suggested sets with the 2-8-0 Mikado in recent production.

There you go. Basic recommendations.

You can worry about all the other stuff, if you want to worry about it at all, much later. 

This is another run away thread because of the Lionel vs MTH.

My suggestion, may have already been mentioned, find a LHS (local hobby shop) and see what they have and what they suggest.

OK - my turn to disagree - I think the thread ran away due to 'plan what you are going to do to the nth degree before you buy anything' and 'you may well be sorry if you buy starter sets' and 'dude, but a  starter set!'.  the MTH vs. Lionel was pretty mild actually.

I agree, Helmut. I don't see much Lionel vs MTH at all. In fact, I'm surprised there wasn't a lot more.

hlfritz posted:

OK - my turn to disagree - I think the thread ran away due to 'plan what you are going to do to the nth degree before you buy anything' and 'you may well be sorry if you buy starter sets' and 'dude, but a  starter set!'.  the MTH vs. Lionel was pretty mild actually.

Through my journey to the current position in modeling O-scale/gauge I took many "re-thinks", all of which cost me many $$$$.

I can't see how I could have arrived to my current state without having found what I didn't want. So planning to the nth degree would have prevented me from entering the hobby.

For me, there is nothing about a starter set (that I have seen) that passes my eye test. Every Christmas I run a different loco around the tree. Last year: MTH Long Island C-Liner. This year?? 

I see absolutly nothing wrong with just buying a starter set that strikes one's fancy.  If we all just planned and planned and researched to the nth degree, many would never buy anything and become another "arm chair" model railroader.  Keep everything for the starter set, shipping carton, books and paper work so if it doesn't fit in the end result, you can always sell/trade/regift the set to someone else.  My wife and I went the Polar Express route but in S gauge instead of O.  We liked the better semi scale look of the Flyer set over the O gauge one.  The really nice Legacy scale version is way beyond our budget.   We are planning a layout around the PE train using xmas village buildings and maybe some of the O scale items from Lionel's line up that do not totaly look out of place.    Yes the new stuff has quality control issues, but what doesn't these days.  Go with what you like, but most importantly in my opinion, make a start.  Even if its a false start, its the only way to learn and you will still enjoy the process.  Plenty of good sales on starter sets right now.  Mike

"I can't see how I could have arrived to my current state without having found what I didn't want. So planning to the nth degree would have prevented me from entering the hobby."

yeah - i am almost in the armchair part/analysis paralysis - except i bought trainz - a new era for my PC 4 weeks ago!  guess what, i have not even installed it yet!  because i have no time because i am obsessing on all the model railroad research! 

but I have finally just started buying stuff!  i have  K-Line Porter, a very nice set of 6! MTH Heavyweight passenger cars for it to pull (just kidding!), a couple of Christmas cars on the way, and quite a few bids and watches on eBay, and quite a bit of O27 track just in case I need to use that for the Christmas layout, and actually some money stored up in PayPal to spend on stuff in the next couple of weeks from selling off my 'scaling excercise' (helped me decide to do O scale) and other hobby sales.

TM Terry posted:

While I totally agree with John C, getting a starter set will get the modeler only one of John C's criteria: Participation.

In fact, if the modeler purchases a starter set, IMO, apart from the emotional commitment to O gauge, financially, he has made no progress toward Plausibility or Purpose. In my case, it was a total waste of money.

If I had all my O gauge to suddenly be gone, and I had to start over again from zero, except my experience, I would never purchase a starter set. 

Assuming I am a Lionel guy, I would purchase: a Legacy locomotive of the road and era I was modeling, a Legacy Control System, the largest diameter track that I had space to make a loop and a few straights to observe the train going straight.

From there I would begin seriously planning "plausibility and purpose."

I've wasted money on starter sets several times.  Several of the guys in my group were luckier than me.  They had the advantage of asking an experienced modeler first-hand of what to buy.  They have all got top of the line stuff!!!  Some of it for a fraction of the price at train shows.  When I got into this hobby, it was through a kid a year younger than me.  We were 12 or 13.  We had no one to advise us.

I started out with the Pennsy RS-3 MTH starter freight set. My LHS swapped in Fastrack for me.

It was only the first purchase of an unrelenting addiction, however.

BE WARNED.

If you had a friend who wanted to take up golf or fishing, would you recommend that they buy the most expensive tour set of clubs or rod and tackle to start off ? Of course not.

There's a reason they make starter sets - to see if someone is really interested and wants to pursue that sport or hobby long term and then invest in better equipment. Yes, if they get hooked, the money they spent on that starter set may be a waste, but better to lose a few hundred than spend a few thousand and then decide it's not for you.

Yes, those of us who stayed are all a lot smarter now, but that doesn't negate the benefits of starting out with a basic system.

Slayer S - get yourself a good quality starter set from Lionel or MTH from any of this site's sponsors/retailers. Ask them a lot of questions and then set it up and see if you like it and want to expand from there. 

And if anybody has any extra starter sets, contact your local boys or girls club or YMCA and make a donation and help enrich someone else's life.    

Richie C makes a good point: Getting a starter set to test your passion.

But if you're just changing gauge, I go back to my original point: starter sets are a waste of money.

Knowing you have the passion, and if you have hope of expanding in the future, every dime spent on a starter set, IMO, is a loss.

How, exactly, are they a waste of money?

I have used the track, transformer, cars and locomotive from each set I bought, and one set featured a favorite locomotive that was durable and still cherished. 

Jim R. posted:

How, exactly, are they a waste of money?

I have used the track, transformer, cars and locomotive from each set I bought, and one set featured a favorite locomotive that was durable and still cherished. 

If that was a rhetorical question, I understand. If you actually are looking for an explanation, my comment was conditional on it being my opinion. I am modeling scale as best I can. Nothing in the MTH Chessie F3 set that I bought is of any value (to me).

TM Terry posted:

If that was a rhetorical question, I understand. If you actually are looking for an explanation, my comment was conditional on it being my opinion. I am modeling scale as best I can. Nothing in the MTH Chessie F3 set that I bought is of any value (to me).

Might have been helpful to lead with that and put your comments in context. I had the same question as Jim, but didn't want to argue, it comes down to a personal decision either way. I figured you decided to model something closer to scale or a specific era/region. I'm quite happy with my MTH R-T-R Christmas set from 2012 even though I now only use the loco, passenger cars and Z1000, not the tracks or remote. Actually, I should ad a caveat because the RealTrax and remote might be used for a future holiday layout around the tree.

Your point is well taken though. IF the OP thinks he might be interested in modeling scale or simply wants the added detail, etc., in upgraded equipment, then he would be foolish to waste his money on a starter set. However, if like me, he wants something he can set up during the holidays as well as something to help him decide if he wants to pursue O Gauge, then he might be quite happy with a starter set. Granted, you can set up a holiday layout using scale equipment, but is that use worth the expense?

OK, I'm late to the party as usual.

I love the MTH DCS system, BUT I'm Running a Lionel Polar Express right now for the Christmas theme on the layout.  The Little ones LOVE it. Since I have a long passing siding I also have a 4-8-4 pulling the Christmas Billboard boxcars that will fit, I have so many now....

THUS;  For a Christmas layout I will recommend the Lionel Polar Express set or an MTH Christmas starter set, either one will get you rolling.

TRACK: I prefer MTH RealTrax track for the rail shape, BUT You MUST know how to assemble and take it apart or you will damage the contacts.  Now, for my Modular "permanent" layout? MTH Scaletrack, No Question. It has the Smallest, Closest to scale rails in the hobby. Email me if you want a picture. OR google 'toy trains on tracks', buy the videos, they are impressive.

Slayers? 

I missed this, but the name...I may know you. 

  If I said Dave, Kort, Robbie(rip), Rob, Mike (or "Dylan"), Mike N, Turtle, Rich, Tim, Sam (Samir), Freddy, Allen, & Ronnie, would you know them as a loose group? If so, you really should shoot me an Email (in my profile, click the name.)

 Either way, if you still need help, your more than welcome also. "My pleasure, Sir".

Our Mich. Slayer s moved away many years ago. I only found out he was into trains about a week or so after he left, from Robbie... I just stumbled on your name and state so I have to ask.

There's a lot of good advice here.

I started more simply (or ignorantly) by browsing around for a train set that looked 'neat' to me - I didn't know or care about the manufacturer - i found a train that looked good to me - then I enjoyed running the heck out of it on the oval of track... then I brought more of that same sort of track and a larger transformer and was on my way!