Which B6 Switcher?

There is also the K-Line B6

Which one would you purchase?

 

I would purchase the new Legacy version.  Like the Legacy early Berkshires, USRA Light Mikados and K4 Pacifics the Legacy B6 is being done with revamped former K-Line tooling.  They generally have more accurate scale dimension and more detail than most of the Lionel tooled locomotives of 15, 25 or 75 years ago.  With Legacy sound, odyssey II speed control and a can motor it will also run much more smoothly and quietly than any reproduction of a pre-war locomotive with an open frame motor.

 

Take a look and compare for yourself.

 

http://www.collector-modeltrai...log_item/MT-0535222/

 

http://www.collector-modeltrai...log_item/MT-0177183/

 

 

I'm a little biased. The details on the new B6 will definitely be much better, but that could be said about all of the newer overseas tooling versus the older American tooling. The old 18000 B6 from 1989 has all the basic things you need - puffing smoke, RailSounds generation 1, and both headlight and backup light.

 

It is definitely not as low in detail as a Lionel scout engine, and is somewhat close to the amount of detail that was on the old US 700E scale Hudson, such as the operating lubrication lever on the steam chest.

 

The obvious is that the can motor of the 2015 version is much better running wise than the primitive AC motor, as is the fan driven smoke unit vs. the postwar style puffer unit. I personally have nostalgia connected to the first generation RailSounds, so I'm keeping my 18000, and this is coming from a guy who's pro-Command control.

 

OGR actually did a whole article on this engine recently a couple of months ago, and seeing how well it held up in the 25+ years since.

 

In conclusion, like the 18005 1-700E Hudson, it is the old scale prewar tooling match for match with the better features of its time in 1989. If you're a conventional operator, this engine should fulfill your wants and then some for a small amount of money. If you're more into the current Legacy sound and features and have the budget to go with it, go for the improved 2015 versions.

Carl,

 

     Lionel had a pre-production sample of the new Legacy B6 at York........a lot of detail plus Legacy sounds which I am sure are much better than the 18000. If cost is not a issue go with the new Legacy B6..........I have one on pre-order. I am sure some of Lionel's larger distributors ordered a few extras as these were BTO so if I were you I would start calling now if you go with the new Legacy model.

 

JohnB

First off the 1990 engine is a B6 vs the B6Sa/b's that have been produced since by Weaver, MTH, K-Line and now Lionel. Different valve gear and firebox shape are the most obvious. The sound on the 1990 B6 is terrible. The chuff will send all your pets running away, very annoying (not unlike the scale Hudson). The K-Line is a nice runner but the new Lionel version should be even better with accurate driver spacing unlike K-Line's.

If I didn't already have a K-Line I would get the new Lionel.

my $.02

 

Pete

I would go for the Legacy version.  Its sounds and detail will be superior to the 1991 18000 Lionel B6.  I have the 1991 version and those 1st generation rail sounds are pretty harsh.  At the time though it was state of the art. 

For scale fidelity, I think Williams was the best, and that includes the 2-rail scale Gem import.  For nostalgia, the Lionel B6 is great.  I have one of those, and three Williams, all 2-rail.

 

If sound and smoke are your criteria, go with the newest Lionel.

I was going to post how much I like my 18000, but it seems that Mikado 4501 has said everything I would have and then some.  Yes, I can easily recommend this locomotive.

 

I couldn't pull the pre-order trigger on the newly announced Legacy version, but should they arrive and get a good review for performance I may at that time try to find one. Slow speed operation is a must for a switcher. I am not fan of Lionel's BTO or any pre-order program, as it involved committing to buying a sight-unseen and un-tested product. And, given the PE Berkshire fiasco BTO at one dealer that I pre-ordered from last year, and subsequently paying more for the product from another dealer, I give BTO double thumbs down.

Thanks for the thoughts, folks. Seems like good discussion for either of the versions. Really tempted for the Legacy, but may wait and see initial reviews.

Lionel had a pilot model at York. I think Marty E has posted a photo of it here.

 

Pete

Kinda repeating what's been said above, and I do not own this loco (the 18000 B6 from

the 90's), but I have seen it run, on my layout, actually, and the running characteristics were very poor - especially for a switcher.

 

The scale-model aspect of it, however, were just fine, by 1930's standards, which apply to

the 700E, as well. It was nearly as nice a model as the 700E.

It was no "Scout" - it was Lionel giving the Pennsy fans something special to enjoy.

I like the "look" of the 18000, regardless of anything else.

 

I like new stuff; I like can motors; I use TMCC and run only Command. The new ones will

always out-perfom the old ones (18000). 

 

If you can live with the zoomy gearing (my observation; maybe it was real stiff? This was years ago), the 18000 has some nostalgia value, for some people.

 

Again, I do not have any of Lionel's PRR 0-6-0's. 

I have the 89 Lionel and love it. Whistle and bell are fine and I don' usually use the chuff. It has the scale Hudsn type drive and mine runs smooth and steady. A nice puller and looks good. You should get a good price on one.

I would go with the new legacy B6.  Even then, you have a bunch of choices to choose from. The hardest part for me was to settle on just one, and start saving up the money for when it comes in. 

 

It may be hard to find now that pre-ording has ended.  I'm sure a many dealers ordered a few extra for the late to the game consumers that are willing to pay full retail so they can see it and touch it before they buy it.  I would call around to reserve one that they may have ordered for the store.

 

 

 

I have the 18000, would not part with it. Of course you can do so much more with Legacy so go that way if you have the $$$.

I own the 18000, a pretty nice remake of the original B6 from 1939. Since it is made from the same dies, I don't think I'd pay over a grand for an original.  Pretty reliable piece as the electronics are all in the tender.  From my experience, I have not had much luck with Chinese Lionel, so I'm partial to the model made in the good 'ol U S of A. If you so desire to obtain one of these, there are plenty of them up for grabs on Ebay.

Have both the 18000 (Test Run) and the K-Line (Never Run) both in display cases.  The '91 was the first of the Lionel "Big Steam" Scale series, which included the Hudson you mention in your original blog item.  Both are really nice, think it is just preference, the KL is the darkest green (looks almost black) with the dark red cab roof.  The 18000 is the more realistic for a switcher, I think there is a prototype at the PRR Museum.  Both of mine are for sale, keeping which ever does not sell:  https://ogrforum.com/topic/big-steam

This was a Must Have since they have made a Legacy Version. I was amazed to see a very Competitive price and with the early order special pricing, and Hopefully Guaranteed Delivery,IT's a WIN WIN situation. Ths is one engine that I have never had, and being that my entire system is Legacy, it's got a Home. I can understand fellows that run Conventional, and there's plenty of 6-18000's for sale, but the Fun to  Run for me is the Legacy Control. To each their Own, Happy Railroading.

It is amazing that the pre war 0-6-0 is selling for $700-$800 for a chattering old wreck with an unreliable horizontal E unit while a 18000 from 1989 can be had for about $300.  True, the old RS is more annoying than realistic.  I recently purchased a 18000 from another forum member that runs nicely.  I traded off an earlier one I bought in 1989 that ran with a visible wobble.   I wish I still had my old pre war Lionel 0-6-0 we sold off in 1955.  Odd

Well, it sounds like I'll probably end up with (maybe a year or so to do it...) both of them.  I'm going to go with the 18000 to start with, though...

Carl,

 

     If you want to see the prototype that was at York go to the top of the page in featured topics, OGR York Grandstand Video. At the end you will see Mike Regan passing around the B6.

 

JohnB

I have a couple extras coming. Your welcome to put your name on one. No deposit required. If you don't like the reviews after they ship, don't take it. No problem. They'll sell out quickly. 

 

Thanks. 

Carl,

   I agree with Ted on this one, IMO he is absolutely correct, the Legacy detailing should be fantastic with the old K-Line tooling and the Legacy slow speed control is just out of this world great.  Get the Legacy B6!, leave the 18000 for later.

PCRR/Dave

 

Here's my 2cents. I traded some old trains I had, for a 6-18000 Lionel. Then I decided I wanted TMCC, and had to also do a motor change to get the smoooth running like my K-Line version has.

 

With me hiring all of this done, including 2 electro couplers frt/rear, your looking at $450.00+ dollars, and you haven't even started to mention this factory equipped smoke unit, w/smoking stm cylinders, which is a joke.

 

When I run mine with the smoke unit on, it looks like it's on fire, as there isn't anything prototypical of an operation at all.

Oh yeah, there is shipping both ways for the upgrades, and that will gig Ya another $50.00 with the added Insurance!

 

So there you have it, await the legacy version, that you can run Legacy/TMCC/Conventional, having a very good fan driven smoke unit, and have all of the up to date stuff, that you would ever want, sound wise, or other wise, so be wise, and do the new Legacy Version............Brandy!

If you want to do actual switching, purchase the new version.  If you are interested in running a postwar style, buy the 90-91 version. My experience with the Kughn era reissues of this locomotive and the 700E is that they are simply superb -- heirloom quality.  However, as others have said, the sound and low speed operation is not up to the most current Legacy standards.  HTH.

I just bought the Lionel 18000 at York. I love it. I hope to own the 1939 version and the latest release, as well. I like the fact that the 18000 was released during the Richard Kughn era. He saved Lionel! You just can't go wrong with any of the choices listed by your/our Forum Friends.....just know what each model offers. After all....if it's a Pennsy.....it's all good!