Which came first Legacy or Odyssey?

Odyssey is just speed control.  Odyssey1 was released about 12 years ago.  Legacy is an updated version of TMCC with Odyssey2 speed control and enhanced RailSounds technology.

Odyssey was supposed to be a new multipole open frame motor that would have combined the best features of a can motor with those of an open frame.  It worked but was too expensive to produce so the closed loop speed control part was salvaged and mated to a DC can motor and that became Odyssey 1.

I believe that Odyssey was introduced during the TMCC era, prior to Legacy. Early Odyssey systems had a reputation for suffering from the 'Oddysey lurch', later systems resolved this and perform beautifully. 

A prototype sample of that motor was on display at York when Lionel exhibited in a tent on the fairgrounds. The motor was stolen and has never to my knowledge resurfaced.

Also, I think the current Odyssey II cruise control is based on the K-Line Cruise design at least the flywheel and sensor are.

Slightly OT but I have observed there is a delay with early Odyssey between the time the first blink is seen on the Command Base and the time the engine starts to move, like 3 seconds. If you wait for the engine to move it will start out slowly. I think many think the knob has to be turned more to get the engine moving. By the time it starts moving 5 or more speed steps may have been received and the engine jumps.

Others have noted early Odyssey is more sensitive to short power loses like dead switch points. Making sure all available pickup rollers are tied together will mitigate this problem. That includes an extra wire between the engine and tender on wireless steam engines.

I have a bunch of ERR Cruise Ms I bought to overcome the lurch but never used because the above methods have pretty much cured the problem.

Pete

Pete, I really like the JLC Challengers, but haven't bought one because of  the 'lurch', and the abrupt stop. I know the transition to Odyssey II has corrected this. Are you saying that you're method will eliminate the problem with the early Odyssey?

Ray

The other issue besides the "lurch" was that it was pretty darn near impossible to run lashups gracefully, even with identical locomotives.

Ray, Its not as smooth as say ERR cruise but most of the lurch is gone. Also consider a Cruise M is only about 85 bucks from Boxcar Bill. Factor that in when shopping for your Challenger. The boards are pretty easy to swap out if the method posted above is not smooth enough.

Pete

Primary reason for the "lurch" is the way the CAB-1 interacts with the controller.  Odyssey 1 engines behave quite well under CAB-2 control.  It is true that consists are almost impossible because even with the CAB-2 the speed step to actually velocity ratio varies from engine to engine.

That's why it was recommended to turn Odyssey off for MU configurations.

And thus, lose the speed control feature.  Self-defeating.

I didn't say it was optimal, it was just the only way to use original Odyssey with an MU configuration.

I'm probably mistaken, but I thought:

1. You can run two Odyssey I engines together with Odyssey engaged on one engine but turned off on the other (obviously requires that at least one of the engines be a 2004 or later model with the Odyssey on/off switch). This allows speed control for the MU pair.

2. You cannot run an Odyssey II and Odyssey I engine together, even if the Odyssey I is shut off. Presumably, you also can't run an Odyssey 2 with an Odyssey I with the Odyssey II shut off, either.

Another possibility: I think (emphasize "think") I heard Mike Reagan say during a conversation last fall that for improved performance he would suggest putting in a board from a post-2004 improved Odyssey (the ones with the on/off switch) in place of the older board. He'd do that rather than do the ERR addition in many cases - I guess because it's cheaper and easier.

Interesting information, Chuck.

Since the ERR solution works well, and when I priced the Odyssey boards, they were as much as the Cruise Commander M, I would suggest that ERR is the way to go.  Also, you don't have to worry about the magnet self-destructing on the motor and having yet another issue.

Odyssey DCDS boards retail for 100 bucks so its not cheaper for the operator. May be easier for Mike. It still won't be as smooth as ERR Cruise in any event.

BTW I am operating a SF F3 (train 18 and 19) ABBA with 3 powered units with Odyssey turned on with no problems. YMMV

Pete

Are the Odyssey units turned on in all three engines? Have you tried it with just one of the Odyssey units on and the other two off? Just curious about variations in performance.

YMMV seems to be apt; it's odd that there are such varied opinions on whether multiple Odysseys will work - or how they will work - in MU situations.

I am updating an older Allegheny with out odyssey(cruise control), cannot see how you could MU with out it! especially up a hill. 

ERR has been heaven sent in this regard. BTW, if you are upgrading an older engine like this you will have to upgrade the R2 board as well, so the cost is 120.00 which should be factored in.

All three on. At least one powered unit has no off switch. Response is totally different when cruise is off. With cruise on all engines begin to move at the first blink on the Command Base. With cruise off it may take 4-6 blinks to see movement.

Pete

R2 board?

Does the "lurch" occur if you run conventionally, i.e. using the control lever on the transformer? 

"Does the "lurch" occur if you run conventionally, i.e. using the control lever on the transformer?"

I think that may depend on the power supply.  I never tried it with a PW transformer but the TPC was able to start up and run the engine smoothly in convnetional mode.  There was some irony in running a command control engine in conventional mode via the CAB-1.

you will need a new receiver board...

Actually, I've had ERR reprogram the R2LC to the C08 for use with their boards.

Hmm, Really? I was instructed to buy a new board...

Interesting, I guess they don't do that anymore.

Rather than get the Cruise M with a new R2LC just order the Cruise Commander and save a few bucks as it includes a Radio Board. BTW a C13 will also work with a Cruise M. That was the combo that Lionel shipped with a NYC 2-8-0.

Pete

This may have been mentioned above, but I did not see it, so for anyone who is

new to the Odyssey "1" lurch issue, the following is true (based on my inventory of

Lionel Odyssey1 locos, mostly steam):

1 - it varies from loco to loco; some Odyssey1 locos have no lurch at all, some have less than others, and -none- of mine have any sort of "dangerous" lurch.

2 - the lurch occurs only ONCE during an operating event - at the beginning.

One does not have to live with it constantly.

3 - I do not MU much, so I have never witnessed the lurch effects under those circumstances.

4 - ignoring #3, in other words, you may not want to deny yourself a nice loco just because there is a "lurch" once during an operating session. I have an Odyssey1 2-6-6-2 and a Legacy 2-6-6-2. The older loco will lurch every time, without fail, when I begin a session. After that, it will run just as slowly and smoothly as the Legacy loco. 

5 - I have found the "lurch" to be no more than a small irritation, if that, now that I'm

used to it.

Just a historical note.  A prototype Odyssey motor was stolen at York and never recovered, but Lionel had at least a couple of dozen of them made.  I saw several of them at Lionel's Canfield location recently, both complete and in a state I would call "parts". It really does not matter now, but they are an interesting historical sidelight in the development of Lionel technology. Think of them as a road not followed.  Can motors with flywheels are really where it is at.

Ed Boyle