Which Comes First, the Chicken or the Egg, or What Order Do You Purchase a Passenger Train

"which I dare not picture because it would be offensive to SP/Daylight purists"

The nice thing about our hobby is there are some many different approaches to accuracy or scale demonstrated by the participants. If I were you, I would not hesitate in posting photos of your fantasy train. I think you will find that most would applaud your initiatives, me included. Don't let any purist get in your way.

Hope you don't mind my use of the red & orange.

OK, you're on; I will get a snapshot or maybe even a mini-movie up this weekend. Then we'll see how long it takes the SP Truth Squad to come out.

BTW, if I was a purist I'd say that your red and orange are a terrible mismatch for genuine SP colors (rather like three of the engines that will be in the photo).

"BTW, if I was a purist I'd say that your red and orange are a terrible mismatch for genuine SP colors (rather like three of the engines that will be in the photo)."

I totally agree, just trying to make a point with some humor. 

But, here is my lead for you. And this is not a smoking gun, rather a smoking engine if you are looking for the train that makes my point. 

Depends greatly on the maker, MTH or Lionel and it can go either way -- engine first or cars first there seems to be enough supply of either to pull together a whole (complete) train within a reasonable amount of time.

K-Line or GGD, cars first, and ideally the observation car in the first round. These are tricky sets sometimes, plenty for sale then nothing for several years, so in both cases I would go cars first. Engines second, or near second as once there is a reasonable train for them to pull they come along even if the train is not complete yet (somewhere around 6 cars).

The loose observations are the worst as are the sets which don't include them, finding oneself without a observation car is not fun..... says the fellow looking for the 21" UP observation...

Best,

Jason

LOVE THAT ENGINE  I wanted to attend your open house just to see that engine in action (actually, I wanted to see everyone again plus that engine).

Sometimes I have the cars or locomotive that would match, so I look for the other piece(s).  I've done it both ways, I had the PRR Congressional cars for some time, and finally scored the JLC GG-1 to go with them.  I had my SP Daylight GS4 and the Legacy Alco PA set and later found the cars to go with it.  I'm still looking for K-Line Reading cars.

Before anybody accuses me of mismatching anything I should say that I deliberately added a Daylight Station Sounds diner to the set and with the engines it totals about 18' feet, shown here stretching away under the living room "snowshed":

This is not the ultimate sacrilege I have planned as I'd like to put a Daylight GS-4 as the lead engine ahead of the cab forward and mix in a few dome cars, all running on prototypically noisy Fast Trak.

Since I have the MTH cars, I had to pick up the dome car, I just think they're cool.  Hell, I even have a PRR dome car, and AFAIK, they never ran those.

Now that's what I call a beautiful passenger train. Good for you!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

And you do have company.

Personally, I want to see the GS4 added to the consist for real motive power.

I really don't have a system for this, however in reflecting back, I've always purchased the locomotive first.   For my most recent passenger train purchase ( only a month ago ) I first bought a MTH Premier baggage and coach set then separately I bought a RPO car all in Western Maryland Livery.  They are pulled behind a H7 consolidation or a BL2 deisel both of which are WM locos.  Although these engines are not prototypical for WM passenger trains ( K1 or K2 Pacifics and Hammerhead diesels ) they will have to suffice for now ... at least until I find a model of one of the WM prototype passenger locos. 

For my N&W passenger train .... I first bought a Lionel scale J then purchased a set of Williams Pocahontas cars a year later.  Additionally I bought a scale Weaver RPO, a scale Kline Coach and a scale K line baggage all in NW markings on the Bay one at a time.  

B&O passenger trains ... I already had the locomotives before the cars.  I bought two early MTH passenger cars on the Bay ... a scale RPO and a Diner ( my story goes that the diner has been converted to a snack bar/ coach )  Still looking for a real coach in B&O.

B&O trains are pulled by GP9, Atlantic, or a Hudson all in B&O livery.

Pennsy trains .... I bought the locos first again ...Williams scale GG1 powered and dummy.

The cars I bought a piece at a time at shows and on the Bay.... scale Williams and MTH.

My Pennsy  Aerotain was purchased as an entire set new.

Reading trains .... Locomotive a FM Trainmaster purchased on the Bay followed 2 years later by a set of William scale passenger cars purchased at a show.  They look great! 

Im now looking to purchase a MA & PA scale passenger car.  When the time is right I know it will show up.

I think that Hancock52 nailed it when he talked about passenger cars that are only available on the secondary market. As he said, you better get them when you can and in most cases their acquisition comes first before the engine(s).

It is impossible to have a hard and fast rule about this subject. Recently Lionel announced what should be a rare Berkshire that many will use as a shelf or display item. NOT US. In this case, we committed to the engine first and then went looking for something to go behind it. So circumstances can dictate what you do first.

Brian, until you posted your question I never thought about the order of my purchases.  Most of my passenger sets had motive power readily available as I was buying the popular consists.  But the passenger sets always caught my eye first.  I've always loved passenger trains, I love how the lights in the cars light up a room running around the layout!

It was either good timing or luck that I was able to acquire most of the K-Line 21" sets I wanted when dealers were blowing them out before K-Line folded.  What I didn't get I was able to fill in later with Golden Gate Depot sets, Ebay and at the York Meet.

I had been able to find or already had power for almost all of my sets.  Right now the only locomotives I need are for my recently acquired K-Line California Zephyr set and the pre-ordered MTH Strasburg RR sets.  I don't think I'll have a problem for the Zephyr, but I missed out on the 3rd Rail Strasburg Mollies.  Maybe a custom paint job will be required down the line.

guess my "eggs" are scrambled,,,,sometimes I buy a car or set then look for the engine ,,,or the other way around,,but have had some mishaps when they don't always match,,,,,,that's what train meets are for !!

I see your point and as a postscript to this discussion I'll add one related thought. It's about buying passenger cars/sets "sight unseen" as sometimes happens when you are hunting down something in the secondary market or taking the plunge in a pre-order.

If you have one or another set from the majors (Lionel/MTH/K-Line) of a particular era or kind you will know pretty much what you are getting when you search for something similar, normally from a contemporaneous production run. This, as much as anything else, is why I've been prepared to buy up cars that I want if/when I find them in that market or if - glory be - they are shelved in an LHS I am lucky enough to visit.

But there are sometimes surprises. For example, I put together the aluminum Shasta Daylight set pictured above without seeing any of these sets or cars in the flesh beforehand. I had only a few Lionel 18" aluminum cars and in hindsight I could not be sure what I was getting apart from the fact that pictures and praise of them on this forum was encouraging. I've only recently put the SP set on the rails and it was very gratifying to see on close inspection how good they really are.

On the other hand, I have the motive power for a Frisco Texas Special set using 3rd Rail E7s and (shock, horror) a Weaver dummy B unit I upgraded with a new frame and trucks and ERR sound. I intend this will pull the Lionel 21" ABS cars I took a deep breath and ordered on the basis of the catalog description. Frankly I wanted to support Lionel's initiative in the hope that they make good on the proposed detailed interiors, close coupling and advanced lighting.

This is a leap of faith the likes of which I have only taken before with Scott Mann's products. But with Scott you get a 3D rendering of the car interior and photos of production samples before they ship. Dunno why Lionel can't or doesn't do the same.

They (Lionel) better be showing these cars or giving considerable detail about them at York in October or I'll be unimpressed.

"K-Line California Zephyr set"

Brian, look into 3rd Rails CB&Q E8/9's that are in the place order stage. Would be an excellent fit.

Been working on a loewy North Coast for a few years some weaver cars a few GGD and some Moline domes. but none of it except 2 of the domes  is prototypically correct. Excited about the E7s coming.  With dome kits at a premium would like to save them for UP cars for customers.

   Passenger Train Collector  still waiting for pics of the NP Klines you beat me out on, if I would have pushed that button just a little faster.  Really interested in the domes .  You could pull them temporarily with that Daylight  cabforward for a hoot.  shoot some pictures and I'll pop some corn for the ensuing riot.

I usually buy the cars first.  For example I scored a set of new never ran Weaver 20" cars in Wabash for $150 on Ebay.  

This way I can eventually afford the Legacy Wabsh E8's.

Then I try to find another identical 5 car set and drop the baggage and observation car to make an 8 car consist.  I have done this to make an 11 car consist for Amtrak.

I'm an N&W guy and that consist has me cluckin!

Brian, from our previous conversation I'm still leaning towards some Western Pacific F units. I thought about CB&Q locomotives but you had talked me out of them. But either way they'll have to wait since we suddenly need to go car shopping!

I agree Brian, there will be many choices available to you with WP F units. They make an excellent match with the CZ set.

What an interesting question! In my experience, it depended on the train I was recreating. Usually, because I had back-up plans for obtaining or creating the cars, I sought the engine first. Candidly, this has usually worked well as sometimes I've changed my mind about the order and number of the cars, or the length of the train.

MTH made a nice set ABA CB&Q E-8 in 08 and I bought one for  my Chicago to Denver leg of the Ca Zephyr,both A units have motors,it is pulling  11 Zephyr Cars with no problem.

Mikey

I must have over 250 passenger cars from all manufacturers.  I always look for the cars first then when I get enough to make up a consist, I'll look for an engine.  I'm not shy about mixing up cars.  For example, I'll throw in some Heavyweight cars into a PRR Congressional consist or add a DRG streamline car with yellow stripe to the Atlas CZ set.  I also have enough MTH full vista dome cars, all different road names, to make up an excusion train headed up with a model of a real engine that was restored.   It's our RR, we can run it the way we see fit..;-)

For me, the engine usually gets bought first, then the cars. Though it usually is a long hiatus before the cars are purchased due to me being cautious about spending money. I bought the Vision Line Hudson from Lionel in 2011, but didn't purchase any matching passenger cars until last year.

It is never the same, some I find complete and take the plunge, others a certain car catches my eye, and often, it is a table at a swapmeet with one hidden under the corner or in a box which starts the desire for it.

Currently I am on the lookout for the K-line Northern Pacific 18 inch set, as I have had a set of the domes for years and finally added motive power, it will certainly be a delightful day when I can get a set put together.

Today I received my package of "namesake"  Amfleet coaches, 6 in all, that I purchased on FeeBay.  Finally getting back to building my Amtrak rolling stock.

So true to form, I'm buying the coaches before I buy the loco.  I now have 5 coaches and 1 Cafe.  Now next to buy a Dining Car, Baggage Car.  As there is no Viewliner  in sight, I'll be looking to get both a 60-foot Full Dome Car and 60-foot Round End Car to complete the set.

My old Chessie MP-15 Switcher couldn't manage the weight of the full consist and slipped a lot, but I expected that.  That's what I'll eventually get the Genesis P42.

Passenger trains!  Passenger trains!  Passenger trains!  Oh Joy!

A view of my "carpet yard"

First I bought a 2348 Minneapolis & St Louis GP9

Then CJB Custom Painting & Designs painted a set of Walter Matuch's RMT (formerly K-Line) Amtrak streamliners to match.

I run postwar style trains, so I don't have any of the big scale passenger cars, but looking back at the sets I do have, they were either bought as a whole or the engine came first.  The Hogwarts express I got as a set for very short money, if bought separately, I would have bought the loco first so I could have displayed that on it's own.  I picked up a WBB Canadian Pacific F3 AA and 4 matching 15" cars from a forum member for a good price.  Don't know if I would have bought these separately at all.  although, if I did, I would have bought the engines first, because in true postwar style, I could have run some O freight cars behind them and it'd look fine.  I have the k-line 15" broadway limited set which was the Tuscan Madison cars.  I bough that because I had the Tuscan KCC GG1, but I've also pulled that with my K-line PRR Mikado.  Also I have a set of the Lionel Lines 2500 series aluminum cars (2530s?), mostly because they're classic postwar and I wanted them to run behind my santa fe AB F3.  Of course that was when I discovered that I had the one version of the postwar SF F3 that had a single motor, so I've pulled those cars behind many other engines.  Interchangeability was always important to me, especially when I was younger and couldn't afford all the stuff I wanted.

Looking towards the future, I would love a k-line empire state express set.  I'll buy the engine first and then search for the 15" cars.  That way I can display the loco and maybe run it with my 2500 series cars, which I'm sure will look very off, but help me justify my purchase until I find the matching cars.  I don't buy shelf queens.

I think any of us who have been around 15" passenger cars for a long time still have a love for them. Yes, I have many 21" cars, but I have kept my favorite 15" sets. How could you part with the chromed toped Super Chief set, or the all-domed CZ set, or the Texas Special set. Not me.

Brian, you brought up an interesting subject, 15" passenger cars.  Today, like you, I prefer buying only 18" or 21" passenger cars but I do have a serious amount of older 15" cars that I love to run.  Most are older K Line cars, like the complete CZ set with additions from Lionel, Lionel's Texas Special cars, MTH's older aluminum cars like the Blue Goose set, the SF El Capitan set; interestedly, most of these 15" cars are all aluminum and most have silhouettes.  Will I give them up, never, I enjoy running all passenger cars.

"Will I give them up, never, I enjoy running all passenger cars."

Boy, I am with you, Frank.

I have gone both ways Brian,   depends on the situation but my preference typically is to research and engine,  buy it first and then whatever appropriate cars.   I purchased some years ago a Seaboard MTH Premier E8aba engine set,  Citrus light green paint scheme which I have not often seen out in the market place.    After getting the engine and some further research,  I found that Seaboard often ran this engine with all Pullman green heavyweight cars.   I just put together both a Lionel and MTH set recently so I can run 11 of the 18" heavyweights similar to pictures I have.   Nice thing is they ran this engine in it's later years with mixed boxcar trains too so both sides of the track are OK.

Mark

Mark, I have gone both ways as well. When I started our quest to convert most of our passenger car fleet to K-Line 21"ers, it was a matter of finding the passenger cars sets first as in many cases they are rare and you had better grab them when you see them.

I was lucky with one set in particular, the Surfliner, when I spotted the engine first (as rare as the passenger cars) and got it while the getting was good. I am currently waiting on three sets of diesels (shortly going into production) to pull passenger sets we purchased last year. I was not worried about pulling power as I knew it would be available, sooner or later.

I have an interesting problem.  I have just purchased a pair of Williams Maine Central E7 diesels.

What passenger cars do I run with them?  I suppose I could use Boston and Maine cars, since the two railroads did share consists.

Did anyone make Maine Central passenger cars?

I agree 100%.

Did anyone make Maine Central passenger cars?"

Not that I know of in O-Gauge. But you should be able to easily find a set of green Heavyweights and just re-letter then to Maine Central. That would work.

Bumping this thread.

I've purchased yet another Amtrak passenger car and still no locomotive .  This time is the MTH 60-Foot Dome Lounge Car