Which Lionel 773??

I bought a 1950 - and I run it. I did not get the boxes and mine was in excellent original condition, cosmetically. I put a bit into it as it apparently had been sitting for years - minor work but needed such as rewiring, lubrication, servicing, etc. Also converted the smoke to liquid and polished the paint.

Supposedly the tenders had a small crease or dent in them in the 1950 run, I've been told by long time PW collectors that they both ALL had the dent and that they did NOT all have the dent. I know I don't have it, despite having a 2426W tender. I do have a 2426 chassis and the shell may be off a 726 or similar while another things it is the original shell.

Anyone know if the 2426 tender with the 1950 ALL had the crease/dent in the tender?

If you have any higher tech control like with TMCC or Legacy, I’d go with the Century Club version. I have one, and it runs great. The sounds are extremely good, some of the nicest NYC Hudson sounds I’ve heard, especially the whistle.

If going the high-tech route, the Lionel Postwar Celebration Series 773 might offer a slight improvement over the Century Club version in regard to the lettering quality on the cab and tender. It was part of the Super O set (6-13150).

We have it and it runs great either conventionally or via. TMCC. Fan smoke, 4 chuffs (you can turn those off for a more traditional vibe). Smooth pulmor motor.

I think forum member leapinlarry had a near new on for sale. Also, I have heard great things about the William's model. 

I'm a collector so I love my oldie!

Mike Wyatt,

Heck I think purchasing at least 2 is the way to go, Grab the original, run her conventional for a while, then pick up the TMCC, add Legacy to your layout and have a great time!

PCRR/Dave

Out of all the locomotives you mentioned, the best running (can motor) is the Williams.  If you are an operator, this is the one you want.  

Listen to Graz.  His information is very good.  I have had and been involved with several CC 773 and they look great but not very good in the operating area.   If you want any of the locomotives mentioned to run good, ditch the ZW and get a modern transformer with more powerful output.    Lionel operators are very lucky today to have the ZW-L transformer available to them.   The only exception is the Williams.  It runs fantastic with any transformer.

Gentlemen,

   As usual Williams is great stuff!

PCRR/Dave

 I run my postwar 773 with ZW power. The 773 has a lower gearing ratio and therefore has smoother operation than the traditionally higher geared motors of the era.

Each of the versions you mention has pros and cons - there is no "best" option until your criteria is defined. But I will say, the 1950 edition with the 2426W tender is the one that set the stage for all the others (and the 700/763 set the stage for the 773) and has the most collectible and most nostalgic appeal coupled with its gearing makes for an excellent operator. Only drawback is that it lacks digital control and has a high price - $1200-1500.

Another option not on your list is the 783 (the 1984 reissue). It is essentially a postwar 773 with a NYC lettered tender and can be had in the $275-$350 range. It can be had in black or grey. Again, no digital control, and the classic air whistle is ditched for a electronic whistle only its mother could love.

I have a new, with the display case, all the paperwork, documentation, original boxes, Century Club 1, 773 Hudson. And it can be Yours. My email is in my profile. Take care.

Mike,

I thought you might find this video I did helpful in throwing a few more possibilities into the mix!

Jim

I run the PWC Hudson from the set and it is a great runner, hardly ever off the layout. Sounds are great and it can pull a bunch of rolling stock or passenger cars.

Regards,

Steve

Add me to the list of PWC 773 guys - runs great and awesome sounds

Alex M added a superchuffer to mine and tweaked the smoke unit

Also I removed the “Land of the giants” engineer and fireman and replaced them with “scale” guys and back wall from the Vision Line Hudson - parts were available on Lionel website - I think it cost me $20

Closed the gap between the engine and tender by about a 1/2 inch - Looks awesome

If you are comparing the postwar versions, the motor windings on the 1950 version are more robust than the 1964 version, but the Williams reproduction is going to be the most solid runner of anything you compare it to for conventional running. 

Guys, they are all great in their own way.  If you are a pure operator, the Williams is the hot hand.  I have converted many of the Williams 773 locomotives to DCS.  They can also be done as an ERR upgrade.   Not being a collector myself, I go for the best operation.

Guys/gals, As far as the older 773 I agree with Jonathan on the 1950 being the better engine.

I own both the CC 773 and the 1-700E scale Hudson from 1990. Both run well for me. The sounds are decidedly much better in the TMCC CC 773. I can guarantee that you will quickly shut off the primitive chuffing sound in the 1-700E, although the whistle isn't too bad. For those of us with a bit of nostalgia about these choices (actually seeing the 773's being assembled during  a factory visit to Chesterfield), the CC 773 combines an open frame three pole motor with reasonable TMCC technology and genuine USA manufacturing. Both are quite affordable these days.

The PWC Hudson is a fine suggestion, but you may have to opt for a whole set to get one (which could be a plus or a minus, depending on your desires). However, the whole set may be getting within hailing distance of the $ territory of an postwar original. 

Have fun in your search!

Bob

If you want good looks, nice detail, low price, good operation, and are not fixated on the Lionel brand as so many folks are, the best choice is an MTH Premier with proto one. Convert that to TMCC with a Cruise Commander from Electric Railroad and you have one fine looking and running model at a modest price.

I would consider the LTI remake of the 700.  I think the mumber is 18005.  I got mine mint for $275.00.  It may have more detail than you wanted 

Guess I'll Have to chime in here.  I have the Williams scale Hudson, The Lionel 1950 773 Hudson, the Lionel 1964 773 Hudson and the Lionel PWC 773 from the Super O 6-13150 set.  There is no question that the Williams scale version is the best runner and puller while the Lionel PWC 773 sounds the best but there is in my opinion something special about the 1950 773.  Perhaps its just pure nostalgia but mine runs and smokes well and the air whistle 2426 Tender sounds as sweet as it gets.  Lots of nice motive power to choose from here.  Have fun.

" As usual Williams is great stuff!"

Uh, well, that depends - the gearing on the Lionel locos is actually good - fairly low, making for a loco that will actually run smoothly below silly speeds - and the more you run them the better they get, typically.

The Williams die cast? No. Bought 2 to double-head (someone had a special) on the then-club layout years ago. They ran so poorly - zoom-zoom - that I sold one and converted the other to ERR Cruise Commander, which calmed it down pretty well; well enough that I detailed it properly and weathered it.

A friend owned one of the Wms die-cast for a while and just found it hard to use because of the gearing - he sold it. (None of this applies to the Williams brass locos of an earlier generation.)

If the well-geared Lionel had the Williams flywheel can motor, it would be perfect.

The PS1 Hudson from MTH converted to PS3 is a winner.  I had one that was ERR and it was OK.   Nothing can top the two way communication you get from DCS.  Not to mention the choice and availability of sound files.   Please explain the gearing issues from Williams.  I have had many of these and converted many for guys into DCS locomotives.   If I ever saw an issue I would be the first to converse about it.   Today we have a standard in the Hudson with the vision Line Hudson.  I doubt if any company can top that one.  I do not have the item number handy but remember the Hudson Lionel did with the big Vandy tender.  That had an AC motor and was an excellent runner.  

I would bet if someone asked Frank Timko how many Lionel Hudson locomotives he converted to a can motor with DCS  they would be surprised.   I do not know the answer but know of a two running and they are very cool.  

One thing I like very much about all the Lionel Hudson engines is the valve gear.  I love the beefy look.    

The Williams diecast scale Hudson has a gear box ratio of somewhere around 9:1, if memory serves. That coupled with the big can motor makes the loco want to go 200 MPH (maybe an exaggeration, but not much of one).  As a result, it's low speed performance and consistency of speed suffers. Think of trying to drive in a parade with your hot rod stuck in 5th gear.

When Jon Z was developing the Cruise Commander, my Williams diecast scale Hudson was the test mule for the final calculations. If the Cruise Commander could tame that beast, it could pretty much do any loco. Tame it, it did, but fixing  badly designed hardware with software control has its limitations, too.

Great information, guys. Thank you.

This is my Lionel Hudson and I love it....around 2001-02 and I believe the number is 6-28072.

Peter

Agree with the comments above regarding the Williams die-cast Hudson.  Don't like it, and agree that installing a speed control board is like applying a band-aid solution to a poor design.

I own an MTH Premier Hudson with Proto-1 and frankly don't recommend that either.  Geared too tall; slows noticeably on sharp curves.  Once again PS3 is a band-aid solution, and unlike all of the Lionels this one isn't kid-proof.  It doesn't coast.  Hit the direction button when it's under speed and you're greeted with the sound of graunching gears and drive rods.  I wonder how many times it'll take that before there's damage?  I wanted to augment the flywheel's rotational mass by having it slugged with tungsten fishing weights and rebalanced.  A local machine shop "lost" my part and materials .

One thing to watch out for on the 1950 773s is the wheels falling off--literally!  It's like the axles were too short, or not carefully installed.  I've seen a lot of these at train shows where the axle protrudes on one side and is well-recessed on the other.  A repair expert could probably re-center them with the right tools, but look carefully, this is an expensive (overpriced?) loco.  Caveat Emptor!

Creep, coast, and pull.  Great performance without gimmicks.  C'mon, it's not cold fusion people!!

The 1950 Hudson and the TMCC version would be my choices. As with anything in this hobby, you can never have "just one". 

I really like the 1950 version for the 2426W tender, because Lionel never made another tender quite like it in the Postwar era. A die-cast shell on both the locomotive and tender and great detail (remember this was 1950 where scale and details weren't a huge thing) makes the 1950 version a winner for me. It's also sort of the "holy grail" of Postwar steam, next to the 746.

The best looking version is the pre war 700E, the next best looker and better runner is the Vision Line 700E/5331. The stuff in between isn't worth the money; it isn't accurate with the entire valve gear missing among other details and doesn't run any better if as well as the 1937-42 version.

Bogie

I do not agree with the Williams report.  I base my opinion on having had a few of those engines and working on DCS conversions.  I also own the Vision Line Hudson.  That has all the bells and whistles and many miles ahead of the old Pre War.  Something is lacking when an engine just lumbers down the track with strange noises.  No bells and whistles.  I come by a few of those old engines and dump them to put the money into the newer Legacy locomotives.  I am still surprised those old engines still have the buyers they do.   That is a good thing when you have one to sell.   Guys/Gals,  it is great to see everyone enjoy what they like to buy/run.   I find some people in my age group seem to shy away from modern trains with command.  I can not get enough of it.   I am happy with most of the trains available to us today.  

The 773 no matter what year made will always be popular.   I remember about 20 years ago they were bringing big money.   It seems this is a good time for anyone who wants to collect postwar to be in the hobby.  The best thing if someone chooses to do so is the fact parts are available for just about everything.  

Get the Post War Celebration Set. That is the best deal you will get on a Hudson

After all is said and done, whichever Hudson you choose, will run better on 072 and wider curves.  Your track is the key to your engines performance. I recommend the tmcc versions. It’s your call...Happy Railroading.

bmoran4 posted:

Another option not on your list is the 783 (the 1984 reissue). It is essentially a postwar 773 with a NYC lettered tender and can be had in the $275-$350 range. It can be had in black or grey.

That is true.  But I can give a bit of a caveat to that suggestion, based on my own experience. 

I bought a 783 four or five years ago (Lord, where does the time go?), NIB, never run.  At first, I could barely get it to move at all, and I checked to see if it had been properly lubricated by the dealer who sold it to me.  It had, but all the same, I carefully re-lubed everything, including putting molybdenum grease in the gearbox, as recommended in the manual.  Didn't help.

A few web searches revealed that there are a number of  "tuning" tricks that past owners have done to improve the operation of these engines, so I tried all of them.  That, plus days of break-in time gave a bit of improvement, but not much.

To cut what could end up as a very long tale short, months -- yes, you read that right, months -- of frequent and intensive work, plus weeks (I mean that literally) of break-in running finally paid off.  Oh, and on top of it all, my 783 had the well-known "dragging magnet syndrome," in which MagneTraction magnets come loose in their mounts and clamp themselves to the back of the drivers.  The magnet on the rearmost drivers was doing exactly that, and nothing I could do was successful in holding it in place.  I finally removed the rearmost magnet altogether -- the engine's weight and the other two MagneTraction magnets allow the 783 to get along just fine without the offending rear magnet.

I admit that there were times when I thought I'd wasted my money on a lemon, and reluctantly considered just putting it on a shelf.  But when something's wrong, I can't rest until I've fixed it, so I kept on hammering away at the problem until I finally succeeded.  Today, my 783 is one of the nicest-running steam locomotives I've got.  But getting it to that point was a real nightmare.

Oh yeah, and someone correctly pointed out that many of the postwar Hudson remakes (783 included) don't have valve gear.  So I added it to mine.  That's another tale altogether, and I'm not going into it here.  But for those who are considering doing the same, suffice it to say that it's not quite as simple and straightforward as it looks.

I'm not trying to scare anyone off from buying a 783; I have no idea if they were all like mine, or if I just got the short straw in the draw.  But I'd urge any prospective purchasers to make sure your 783 runs properly before plunking down any cash.

773???

There's only ONE true 773.

Made in 1950.

Some folks have mentioned buying a Williams Hudson.
That may be the way to go. But Williams made more than one. There was even a brass model. I thought that I might have read that the brass one was not a great runner. If so, which ones are the good runners?

Just curious about Mike's layout. How wide are the curves?
I didn't care for the way my 1960's 773 Hudson looked going around the curves on my layout, which was built with all 031 curves. Therefore I don't run it, or any of the other Hudsons I own.

Balshis' post reminds me that there were issues with the Modern era 783.
I believe those issues were resolved for the next two semi-scale hudsons (should be verified):

Stock num: 8606  784 Boston and Albany Hudson

        This was sold direct to customers by Lionel. There were groups of freight cars and cabooses offered as well.

Stock num: 18002  785 New York Central Hudson, grey with spoked wheels

"Just curious about Mike's layout. How wide are the curves?"

Most are 072 and 060- one section (about 6 feet hidden under a mountain) is 048.  Switches are all 072. 

With the posts so far- it looks like I should consider:

- 1.  Lionel  Century Club Hudson TMCC- because it has enhanced sound and features,  good runner, nice detail (maybe not a 700e though), and good availability at $800 or so, even NIB.  AND- I might someday go to Legacy control and be able to use all the CC 773 features.

-2.   OR Lionel PWC 773, IF I can buy it separate from the full Super O set.  The Super O set seems to be serious money, and for cars and track I don't really care about.  I suppose I could buy the set, then piece it out and maybe keep the ZW, but I might be too old for all that e-Bay work.

The Lionel name will likely always mean more than an MTH or a Williams, no matter HOW good those are, they are copies.  Of course so are any Lionel 773's except the 1950.  But they ARE Lionel.  

Of course so are any Lionel 773's except the 1950.

But not the 1960's version?
It was still the Lionel Corp.

Mike,

I was able to find my PWC Super O set at a great price. New in box. I then sold off everything BUT the Hudson.

Keep poking around, they come up.

The Century Club was never a good runner on it's best day.  I purchased one new and picked up one in a collection.    Many OPERATORS will tell you the 1950 is the better runner of the two.   I am not speaking from something I heard somewhere.   

My money is on Ryan Kunkle and Dave Olson to bring one out with all the bells and whistles that will knock your socks off.  Time will tell.   Imagine if Lionel made  a 773 with whistle smoke, blow down, can motor, excellent electronics, and great operation.  I will be the first to get my order in.  

Years back, the hobby had more collectors in it than we see today.  With all the great trains produced today, the operating layouts  seem to be what people want to see.   

My layout uses simple operation and the four loops run anywhere from  O31 to O72 curves.  My scale Hudson collection includes two 1990  era 5340 Lionel Hudson's w Smoke and rail sounds (P/N 18005) .  While I am not going to argue that they are the best running scale Hudson's they do pull a 20th Century Ltd aluminum passenger consist of 8 cars at 14-15 V. The design may be old school+  but those engines are bulletproof.

C. W., I can confirm that the issues mentioned with the 783 were not completely fixed in subsequent LTI releases.  I have a 784 with a rubbing magnet that barely moved.  Tried fixing it once, the magnet wouldn't stay put.  Bought a replacement 784 chassis on the 'Bay and it has the same problem!    I also have a 785.  That loco has spoked drivers like the 1990-reissue 700e, and no magnetraction, so it doesn't have a magnet problem.  Compared to the others, the 785 runs faster on the same voltage (not necessarily a good thing.)  But I suspect  that the flanges / wheel gauging are different, because it tends to slow down more than the others on O42 or smaller curves.  And all of these are noisy enough to prompt the question, "regular or decaf?" 

Operationally I'm sure the Vision-line Hudson would spank any of these, but they're rare and insanely expensive.  And if I were going to routinely operate on O42 or smaller, I would stick with something in the RailKing or LionChief Plus lineup (better looking on sharp curves, and generally better operation.)