Who has Working Signals?

I did on my old layout there the cheap ones from China. I have controlled them 2 ways with the controller they sell also and a the other way was a relay on outside rail blocks.

http://www.ebay.com/itm/4-pcs-...;hash=item3cbb13a73a

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Cont...MLBUILDER:SIMPLEITEM

Most of my train signals and crossing gate signals are postwar Lionel type and they are activated using modern Lionel 153-IR activation units to make them work. I just ordered a scale MTH crossing signal which I plan to activate using that same Lionel 153-iR unit. So far I have been very happy with the Lionel IR units and I like the way you can adjust sensitivity and how long you want a device to be be activated.

I use bridge rectifiers and relays connected to the outside rails to trigger crossing gates and signals.................rogerw.

I don't know if you can find this but go to to O-Gauge Railroading magazine, run # 187, this is from June of 2002, page 83. This uses isolated outer rails with DPDT relays.

I modified the design to handle a 3 light system on either end of a part of my carpet layout that I could not see real well. Two blocks, first is red on entry while the 2nd block goes yellow, and visa versa.

It really works, I think its very proto typical, sorry no video of this.

Down on the CB&L:  Track 1 has two Lionel 153's, controlled by 153IR controller.

Track 2 has one Lionel 153, also controlled by 153IR.

Lower level has two Marx signals, I don't know number, controlled by insulated rails.

A signal bridge also spans track 1 and 2, but is not fully wired yet.

Thanks for the replies.  When I laid my track, I laid out signal blocks on the entire mainlines.  I ran detector wires from each block.  My plan was to use Atlas or Custom Signals to have a prototypical operating signal system.  Since then, I am realizing how expensive and involved that would be. 

I am now wondering if I should just use signals in the most visible locations, but still have them connected so they operate in a prototypical fashion.  I have searchlight style signals, but only a few so far.

Another issue or problem is that I would like to use both outside rails for common or ground so as to have a stronger and more reliable signal.  If I do that, how will I detect train movements for my signaling?

Art

I use relays with the insulated rail method and relays. There is a diagram here

LINK

And here

LINK2

LINK3

Dale H

To:Chugman

You may to take a look at Intregrated Signals Systems.com.

Also take look at my youtube I have. Please type in O Guage Subway Transit Signals.

Good luck. John   

It's a lot of work but they look really neat . We had a layout with working signal (ABS) Not CTC.  When quests came over to run most just ignored the signals. Fortunately the layout is big enough the trains run in one direction only.  We're still thinking about working  signals, . The signals are in but only indicate switches at the entrances to blocks, Still debating whether to use insulated track  for the whole block or short insulated sections, One to latch a relay  entering and another to release the latch leaving the block. We're not quite there yet.

I used Custom Signals signals and control boards for my scissor crossover.  I used scale crossing gates with Aztrax controller with IR sensors.

I don't have any signals yet, but was also thinking about using Atlas (if I ever get that far?). Anyway, if you have not seen these tutorials from ericstrains they are definitely worth watching (as are all of his videos). They are very informative and those are what pretty much put me into the Atlas signals camp. I agree they are a little on the pricey side, but Atlas has a very nice system that seems like it would make things easier to install. They have a lot of features built in. I also like Atlas as a company, I have had very good dealings with them and I think they have good products.

Atlas Signals Part 1

Atlas Signals Part 2

And just a FWIW here, I also use Atlas track and switches and have only one outside rail connected to common. I seldom clean my track and have had no problems so far (this is sort of from the other thread on outside rails). I have only diesels and most are larger models, mostly all 6 wheel trucks. I don't have any of the smaller items that gunrunnerjohn was referring to. I have one diesel with 4 wheel trucks, but it has not run on my current layout yet (still packed from moving in fall of 2013). My layout is a lot smaller than yours (only 6'x16', 2 loops, 4 blocks each, one PH-180 per loop through TIU), but the plan is for it to start expanding maybe later this year. That could make a difference for me and the beginning of my problems, but so far so good. It's wired for DCS and I have both DCS and Legacy, all command control, no conventional. Most of my engines are MTH (12-13 or so) with only two being Legacy.

I have wired isolated outer rails on all three sections (inner/outer mainline and a passing siding with cross-overs) passing through the unfinished side of my attic. I am still holding out hopes that I will be able to obtain the hardware I need from Atlas when/if it's available again. Since I'm still laying track, at this point it's still a "no-rush" item.

Since this is about 54' of non-visible run, functional signals will be a must.

Intregrated Signals System.com

NYC,Subway Transit Signal Head.  Integrated Signal Systems.com

great thread thanks

The signals I use are all MTH products, I control them with the use of insulated rail and relays I got from Mouser.  Not one failure in over 6 years. 

Marty

Marty,

Do have a picture of the relay ?

Maybe you let us see it

Thanks, John

We do. Most are operated via insulated rail with a couple using IR sensors. Basically, if the operator obeys the signal, the trains will maintain proper separation. I've been investigating switching everything over to optical/IR but some of the blocks are pretty long and that creates some practical limitations.

I will take a photo and also the socket it uses which has screw terminals.  So in the event the relay should fail, just un plug and install new one.

Marty

Marty, Great then.

Thanks, John 

`Typical relay DPDT 24VDC

 click to enlarge

Dale H

Here are the pics of the hardware you will need.

First pic shows the wiring of the relay with rectifier if you use DC relay...

Second pic shows the curent relay type in use now.  Note the two contacts on right are designed to fit the socket.

Third pic shows relay and socket.  Relays are rated for 10amp at 24v DC.  Part number is R1411D1012.  Socket is NTE R95110 and it is rated for 10 amp at 300v.  Relay are

stated to be usuable for over 1 million uses.  Probably past our life times...

Marty

I am not good with the picture part, however, I use Atlas O, and Custom Signals, and use Insulated Rail. Their Directions are very User Friendly. It just takes some time reading the diagrams and picturing what the end result will be. Atlas O and Custom Signals are interchangeable.  Happy Railroading.   

Ok, I guess you talk to Terry from time to time. Custom Signals then ?

 I have some Custom Signals too. But I use my own Relays not the onces that come with  Signals.

My Relays are 12-v,DC  four pole double throw contracts. Plug type Relays. 

I would sent you some picures but I'm a ways for the summers

You could good you-tube and see one of Trains Siganls working  Type in 

O Gauge Subway Trainsit Signals. Its only 2 minute it was a test vedio 

Thanks, John 

Art:

IIRC from a past post, you have your main lines basically divided into a freight line and passenger line.  You had indicated that you want to run proto-ops on your railroad, simply run your freight line by Track Warrant.  Here is a nice web site that gives an overview of TWC.

http://www.lundsten.dk/us_signaling/twc/

You can do your signalling slightly differently by using infrared detectors too.  Here is a link to Logic Rail, who has a product called "signal animator".  Not for the purist, but if you want to give the "Illusion", may work for you:

https://www.logicrailtech.com/

Another company that I found recently that I need to research more thoroughly:

https://www.azatrax.com/block-signal-circuit.html

I have not researched signalling too much as this point, but like you, I have my layout divided into blocks (on my HO railroad).  I'm going to re-start my operating sessions with either train orders or track warrants.  Track warrants are too new for my location and era, but I LIKE the interaction that TWC provides on a model railroad.  I think it is a lot more fun that train orders, and provides more interaction between the operating crew and the dispatcher. 

There are a bunch of other signal manufacturers that piggyback off of the DCC platform, I have not researched them yet, since I am running NCE DCC in my HO world.  I think there are options out there to use other control architecture than Atlas, even if you utilize their signals.

Regards,

Jerry

Martin, Thank you for the pictures. Question: Why ate you using a 12 volt coils ?

Oh well, I guess I'll always be 'different'... 

I have working signals...block and semaphore type.

They're made by this really neat outfit called Z-Stuff...ever heard of them??  Their creator/owner/proprietor/nice-all-around-guy-who-always-has-the-time-to-answer-the- most-seemingly-inane-questions...(drum roll, please!)...Dennis Zander.  Hey, he lurks in the Orange Hall at York-Mecca events in April & October each year.

So, re his signals.  The proximity detector is built into the base of the signal.  Sensitivity adjustable.  Just provide power leads to the signal, set/fasten it adjacent to the track, watch it go from Green to Red as the train passes.  A few seconds after the train passes, it goes to yellow.  A few seconds later it returns to green.  NO attachments/modifications to the track.  (The semaphores with their rotating flag are definitely my favorite!!)

I mean, how simple is that?

Reliable, too!

Any...that's any...problem?....just email/call Dennis.

OK, OK....so that's not how REAL trackside signals function?  Gee, most folks watching my trains pass Z-Stuff signals enjoy what they see....not what they don't see.

OTOH, if you're prone to acid indigestion over that third rail and signals not linked, Dennis provides a technique to link the signals for more prototypical function.  The third rail vexation??...not Z-Stuff's problem.  Switch to 2-rail.  The signals will still work just fine.   You'll just find other problems to deal with, however.

KD....a.k.a., Lucas Gudinov

Custom Signals/Atlas searchlights, which display block occupancy in both directions, as well as route signaling where routes diverge.

Nice Job. Don't forget to look at Integrated Signals Systems.com

 They have some pretty nice signals now Also nice layout.

Thanks John 

I use Custom Signals by Terry Christopher.

Cesar

Insulated track, 12 vdc spdt relay and bridge rectifier. Cheap for me. I have endless supply of relays and the bridge rectifier is a few bucks.

Atlas 6931 dwarf lights.  There is a small PC board.  They are designed to hook to the 6924 relay board but can be simply installed to the switch motor leads.

I found another video of my signals as I was trying to get them working correctly this is all using relays. you can hear them click in the video. it turned out that one of the blocks the track was to tight and would make contact giving the wrong signal color it was setup as 3 blocks but with the tight track sometimes it would act like 2 blocks.  

I use MTH signals and Dallee Current Detection circuits since I always have a lighted caboose at the end of my trains.

Gene Anstine

NYC, Subway Transit Signals

Intregrated Signals Systems.com 

Thanks again for all the input guys. 

Jerry - As usual, you have given me a lot of good information to digest.  I have to study the Track Warrants operating concepts.  And the last signal controls look very interesting.  It might allow me to use both outside rails for common and another method for signal detection.

Tom - I never get tired of seeing pictures of your beautiful layout. 

dkdkrd - I agree that Dennis Zander is a fine fellow and makes great products.  He is a local manufacturer and exhibits at our monthly DuPage shows.  It's hard to argue with your comments about simplicity also, but I am striving for as prototypical an operation as my talents and budget will allow.  I have talked to Dennis about his signal bridges which I like very much and haven't figured out how to incorporate them into a system driven by Atlas/Custom Signals controls.

John (NYC, Subway Transit Signal) - I have clicked on your links and keep getting pictures of these subway signals.  I think that they are great, as little as I know about subway signals, but I can't find any information about searchlight or regular railroad signal systems?  I appreciate your interest and contribution to the thread, but am a little confused.  Thanks for being a forum sponsor.

Art

With my layout I used one of the outside rails of my Gargraves track for the common and sent the hot wire to the center of the Lionel signal, signal is an older Lionel two bulb unit. I use the green light for power and the red light to let me know when I have a train on the backside of my main line.

The other 2 newer dwarf signals are from DZ Industries and are infra-red 2 light with 3 wires to attach.

Lee Fritz