Who made this 4-6-0 brass locomotive ?

I'm gonna go out on a limb and say it was scratch-built with some commercial parts.

Rusty

I'm going to agree with Rusty. The way the back end of the frame is milled, I might guess All Nation frame and maybe drivers. But that's just me guessing. Can you show the motor a little more?

Nice engine.

Mark in Oregon

I like it hard to say could very well be home made with some commercial parts. The drive rods and cross heads almost look like Lionel pieces.

the gearbox covers looks like it was an old CLW before they went to the plastic gearboxes.    I had an old 2-8-0 that had one that looked like that.

Thanks guys. Home made is a possibility, but .... it is really well  made and I was thinking more mae from a kit in the fifties or sixties..

Here a picture of the electric motor, it has exactly the same one that is in my previous loco 2-8-0 which I am working on. This type of motor is simple and powerfull, you may still find them in smaller size for HO models.

Daniel

I agree - scratchbuilt using what look like Lobaugh drivers - and very pleasing lines.  I would look at photos of Reading or New England prototypes to see if it is modeled after some actual locomotive.  How about a photo of themechanism and better ones of the tender?

I will look for you a bit - I have several Northeast steam books.

While the gearbox housing is Lobaugh, no way that worm would fit in the upper Lobaugh housing.  You sure that is the actual motor out of this model?  Looks like a DC-91 Pittman.

Thank you Bob, I have just opened the loco and take some more pictures.  The more I look at it I am sure that the chassis is not a home made model but i do not have your knowledge of the trains from that period abd finding some in France is not common at all.    I saw a picture of a real model of the New Heaven which was similar to that loco but where ....

Daniel

Here is the best I could do with the mechanism.  Lobaugh gearbox, looks like a frame milled from bar brass (easy if you have a milling machine), Lobaugh drivers and main rods, and possibly Lobaugh 4-4-0 cylinders.  It is also possible that the front of the frame is a Lobaugh casting, but it is difficult to tell from the photos.

A lot of modelers do work this good and better.  I have been privileged to meet a few of them.

I really should ask your permission to repeat your photos.  Hope you don't mind.  I brightened up your first photo, and with your permission, will share.  All in all, a really nice model.  I am beginning to think the frame is Lobaugh 4-4-0 with an extra axle slot.  A photo from underneath might verify that.

Edit - I found the underneath shot in your first set of photos.  Definitely Lobaugh style.  I will enhance it and be ready to post.  I note that on the big computer these photos look way better than on the iPad without brightening or enhancing.

Also - took a quick look for a prototype.  Not Reading, and not in the Cyclopediae that I have.  I will check LeMassena's book this evening, and Erie, if I can find my moldy copy. 

I'm a bit confused; (so what else is new?) 

In the "motor" picture I see a worm; in the "motor with frame" I don't...

Mark in Oregon

Thanks so much Bob, and no problem at all for the pictures, you can do what you want with them. I use a computer and this is sometime less nice to look with a phone.

For me whatever the model it is will be after restoration a nice little model, and I just thought that I have even a passenger car that will look nice with it, just have to add Kadees and two railed it. Sorry it is an MTH model and I am not a big fan of made in CH... products but those cars are really nice.

And another bad picture.

Daniel

I have one of those coaches.  I would have six, but I don't care for plastic models.  Detail is superb!  As soon as I turn on the big computer I will re-post the enhanced photos.

I was sure I had a Lobaugh 4-4-0 around here to compare - so far it hasn't turned up.  If you do not see a joint, and the frame looks sand-cast, it is possible that Al Ellis' Lobaugh produced a few ten wheeler kits in the late 1940s.

Here we go - lightened up and enhanced:

I did find my authentic Lobaugh 4-4-0.  The main frame shows similarities, but is not exact.  That precisely machined slot for the gearbox is identical, and definitely the pedestal binders are prewar Lobaugh.  I would look for sand cast marks between the rear drivers (a rough indentation between the machine marks) and possibly a frame extension soldered in for the front driver.

I don't think it was a kit, since Lobaugh still knew how to do rivets on smokeboxes after the war, as evidenced by the Greenbrier and Lost-Wax Mike.

If it were mine, I would first replace the tender trucks with Lobaugh, and second, remove the outline on the lower cab.  Maybe a dummy driver spring on the #1 driver.  All in all, the thing has charm!

I just received in the mail a live steam atrocity.  It has D-valve cylinders, which may be the only reusable part.  I was thinking SP S-8, but maybe one like this with an SP cab?

And speaking of atrocities - the Greek just got a new vacuum cleaner.  At first, I figured it had gestated in the chest cavity of a wayward astronaut, but now I am getting used to it.  If it dies, I may stuff it and put it on a train shelf - with wheels, it could be an anti-Thomas - an honorary steam locomotive.

Daniel - I found this thing so charming that I continued the search.  On page 64 of Stagner's Rock Island Motive Power, 1933-1955, you will find #1522, a Rock Island T-31 class ten-wheeler.  It is really close, give or take some piping and the pilot.

I found this thing so charming I blocked out a frame in brass, pressed in some 66" USH drivers, and bolted the live steam cylinders to it.  I have a very long way to go before it is presentable - the stroke on the cylinders is shorter than normal O scale crankpin throw, so some serious machining will occur.  But in maybe a week I can share a preliminary photo.

Thanks Bob, I will try to find this book and make a good representation of the original.

I am sure you are doing a fine job on this piece, you re so more experienced than me. I really appreciate that little locomotive, very simple with a nice look. Keep us informed of your progress it will be a great pleasure. All my best wishes, Daniel

Struggling with the boiler.  1/8” wall pipe is reluctant to bend into a firebox.  Not ready for photos yet.

I was trying to duplicate your driver spacing.  Turns out it is so close to the Harriman ten-wheeler that I can use my nickel silver cast side rods.  Elegant!

Valve gear is strange - almost drags the rail on a turnout.  And stroke is too short - new crankpins are going to happen.

Interesting project.

This is like a "bump" - I didn't want this thread to drift into the unknown.  And it is a progress report, sort of.  I have the boiler all blocked out and sitting on the frame, with the live steam cylinders installed.  Not quite ready for a photo - I think a cab would be nice before the first photo shoot.

I have four Harriman ten-wheelers, and I am sure every 2-rail forumite has seen photos of three of them.  I am very close to finishing the fourth, but here is number 3 - it is a little non-prototypical, with square counterweights and spoked lead truck wheels, but it illustrates what I am doing.  Wheelbases are almost identical, but the tailbeam on my copy of Daniel's model is shorter than the Harriman, and the boiler taper is much, much tamer.  I will post this, in hopes that this thread makes it another ten days while I do a cab.

Man - almost fell off the edge of the forum.  Here it is, sort of "blocked out".  I can see the smokebox is sniffing for peanuts, and the cab needs to come forward, but all in all, here she comes!

Wow! Thanks Bob for the update.

Dan Weinhold

@FRENCHTRAINS posted:

and another bad picture.

Daniel

Daniel,

I think the problem with your images is that you need to illuminate the subject more. Get a lamp and shine it on your subject. Your image is in focus, but not enough light.

Simon

Not really true - all you need is to use the "light" function in the editor.  I even have it on this ancient iPad.  See above, seven posts up.

Much of it looks like this Lobaugh locomotive.Don

Bob, you are very talented, it looks very nice. Keep us informed of your progress, great to see the birth of a great model.

Simon, you are right, i will do better in the future. I am not very good taking pictures but some progress may be made.

Scale rail, there is certainly several Lobaugh parts in my little loco, I think it is a home made model using Lobaugh parts and a very good model builder who made an engine he enjoys. It would have been great if he has signed the loco but nothing on it.   I will continue to restore it in a near future and take better pictures of it, I am very pleased to have founded that one.

All my best wishes, Daniel

@bob2 posted:

Not really true - all you need is to use the "light" function in the editor.  I even have it on this ancient iPad.  See above, seven posts up.

My point is, if you light the subject properly you don't have to edit anything.

Simon

I went through this 30 years ago, when I was writing articles for OGR and OSN pretty much regularly.  This was before digital cameras, so I was submitting Kodak prints.

most folks take pictures of people, cars, landscapes, sunsets, etc.  When the print machine sees a black locomotive against a light background it darkens the background so you can see it better.  In the process your black locomotive becomes a blob.

One of my copilots suggested that the info was on the negative, and explained all this to me - so I learned how to specify "density."  Sometimes I had to stay there and insist.

Now, of course, you go into the editor, and make it lighter.  You can also sharpen it up - they have a digital autocorrelation function with various names.

Daniel has given me permission, so I will treat the photo you are interested in on the big computer.  The ones I have already done (above) are iPad-edited - not as good an editor.

How is this?

Yes Bob, you can enhance an image with software like Photo Shop, but if you can accomplish the same thing with some added light like a lamp and NOT have to SPEND TIME manipulating your image, that seems preferable to me. Back in the day photographers used all kinds of lighting. Remember flash bulbs?

Simon

I spent a lot of money on photofloods.  I now use sunlight.  Didn't work unless I carefully supervised.  I now edit all my train photos as above.  Wanna buy some photoflood bulbs?

Progress is slow - been soldering Diesel bodies for the last several months.  But finally got the boiler bands on.  Here is a pair of updated photos.  backhead is just tacked in there; it will get fully nestled in tonight, maybe.

Looks great @bob2 - is that a live steam backhead? It looks a little out of place to me.

Yes.  I thought I had posted what is going on - I received as a gift a rather improbable 4-2-0 geared steam model that actually ran on steam.  Cylinders and backhead will be preserved on this model, however un-prototypical.  Get a load of that valve gear!

I guess I missed where you said that. That's a neat concept to reuse those parts. Did you get any pictures of the 4-2-0 they came out of?

Here is an updated photo - I am very close to painting!

Finding this thread with "search" is still impossible, even though it contains 4-6-0 and French Trains.

I will post my latest ten-wheeler in a minute.  Heading for the airport now . . .

This is the All Nation Atlantic, converted to a narrow firebox ten-wheeler.  A poor fit for an SP T-32, but still better looking than the Atlantic, I think.

Nice looking model Bob, you have make such a good building.  Here is a picture of mine, now in running condition, it is less nice than yours.  Now I just have to find a front lamp and it is not easy to find that darned piece in France.....

Very best, Daniel

@bob2 posted:

This is the All Nation Atlantic, converted to a narrow firebox ten-wheeler.  A poor fit for an SP T-32, but still better looking than the Atlantic, I think.

That looks great! Question: will you be fitting it with a "tender drive"? Seems like you probably would have to...

Mark in Oregon

Yes - if I get around to powering it.

Update - coming along: