Who Would Buy a 3rd Rail/GGD Norfolk Southern Business Train if it was Offered?

The A units are F9s not 7's. I dont know what minor differences may exist externally. To do it "right" with the ditch lights recessed into the nose, etc... probably requires Scott to make a mold just for the OCS A units.

That being said, I'd probably order a complete set with the right cars.

 

Depending on pricing, I'd be interested.

No I would not, but I imagine there might be enough people out there who would to interest Scott.

I received an e-mail from Scott this morning and he said that this sounds like a very interesting project. He wanted to know how much interest I thought there was among others for this set.

 

So, this is a good opportunity to express your interest. If this is something that interests you, how about making a post to this thread.

I would be in for a full set of these, if they were done right-- could be a really nice looking set for sure.

It would make for a beautiful set, although since I don't model the NS, I would not be interested.

 

I think if you want to gauge possible interest in such a set, a determination of what would be included in the set would have to be made. Videos that I have seen show 4 engines (ABBA) and 14 passenger cars.

 

Current 3rd Rail/GGD pricing seems to be around $500-600 per engine and around $200-250 per aluminun passenger car.

 

Needless to say, a full set would probably be about 30 feet and about $5000.

 

Does NS ever run the train with fewer than 4 engines and 14 passenger cars?

 

Jim

I seem to recall the MTH set (ABBA and 10 cars) had an MSRP near $1,700.  Nowadays, most sellers try to get north of $3,000 for everything.  And occasionally we'll see a seller asking $5K -- which is pretty ridiculous considering the passenger cars are plastic, not aluminum... and the MTH passenger cars are just the "standard fare" offering... nothing specific to the real OCS train (i.e., such as the unique glass-back observation car).

 

So the irony here is the price of the GGD set will likely be right up there where the MTH set has risen over the years -- possibly even more.  If anything, the price of MTH sets will drop considerably if GGD (or Lionel) produces an all-aluminum passenger set.

 

Hope you folks can generate the interest needed by GGD to commit to building the complete set all at once.  Don't even think about signing up for an offering if they're only gonna produce it one or two cars at a time.

 

David

If the observation car "Buena Vista" was done correctly, I would order a set.

 

Neal Jeter

The question will be what the differences are in the tooling from the F9 to the F7.  I don't believe they are major changes.  I am thinking the only major difference is the location of the front porthole being behind the first louver vs. the opposite on the F7.  Not a difficult tooling change to make.  Ditch lights and other add-on details are all brass castings anyway, so they are not hard to add. 

 

The train could be offered as a five car set like the Powhatan Arrow that was recently announced running behind a single AB set to make it more affordable and the correct size for most layouts.  Also there could be two sets made for people who want the whole train.  The cars would be done with the correct floor plans and window arrangements per standard GGD practice. 

Give me a price and then we will talk
Jonathan-Looks like your next project

PTC,

 

Just a thought, but since this set from this source would comprise scale, highly detailed, and accurate locomotives and cars, I think you might find more potential buyers if you posted this on the 3RS board.

 

I'm personally not interested in this train, but I believe the more scale passenger sets in 3 rail the better. Good luck with this project.

Pricing would likely be in the following range for a set like this:

 

5 car basic set:  $1,250.00 covering a good base set for everyone to enjoy.

2 pac add-ons:  $500 per two car set.

 

F9s:  Roughly $600 for the powered A unit and $500 for a powered B slave unit. 

 

Scott hasn't been doing dummies lately because 60% of the market for 3rd Rail is going to 2 rail now and there is no interest in non-powered locomotives in 2 rail.

 

If the cars can be accurate to another paint scheme, there is a chance depending on numbers of orders that other road names could be done for both the cars and the locomotives.

 

Of course the engine sounds in the Executive F9s would have to be GP38-2 sounds as one of the two has been converted and the second one will be soon. 

I would be interested in a Conrail OCS... which many of the NS cars same from.

I'd be interested for sure as long as it's pretty prototypical.

"I'd be interested for sure as long as it's pretty prototypical."

 

I don't think that Scott Mann would do this project if it were not 100% prototypical.

Looks like about seven would have an interest. These numbers probably will not create much interest in this project. I am a little surprised that there has not been more interest based upon what they are getting on the secondary market.

 

The 3-Rail Board was of no help. Thanks to all of you who took the time to reply.

Compared to what? 

 

 

 

 

 

 

I wouldn't be too bummed, (7) 3-rail folks in two days in an okay start.

 

If you could narrow down the specifics on a proposed set, like Jonathan suggests, this might spur more interest.  Also don't forget the 2-rail guys.  Many of the limited quantity sets get built because there was enough interest in both 3-rail and 2-rail combined to do so.

 

I wonder what the percentage of 3rd Rail customers are OGR members and what percentage are not?

 

Jim

Brian, 
I dont think the question's been out there long enough to get discouraged. I also think there's likely people who may not be on the forum who would buy the set. 

Also, if its offered in the manner Jonathan suggests... you might get some people to order parts of the train. Even NS doesnt run the whole thing all the time.

Brian,

 

As others have pointed out, don't get too discouraged on this idea.  It takes time and ultimately orders to make a 3rd Rail / GGD project happen.  Some projects sit on the shelf for years before they become a reality.  Scott is very much about building what his customers want to see built as long as he can make his bottom line work.  I personally think this train would make an excellent set.

 

To make the project work, you must reach out to the 2 rail community as has been mentioned.  50% or more of 3rd Rail and GGD product is 2 rail these days.  While some on this side of the forum may see a $250 aluminum passenger car as expensive, this is half the price of what is available for a two railer who can only get it in brass otherwise. 

 

As to the details of the train, my numbers mentioned above are accurate for today's pricing and probably are good for the near future.  The big component is finding someone who has the information on each of the cars in the business train, the floor plans and the window configurations among other critical details.  As I recall, several of NS's cars came from Conrail's business train set and I am assuming some are former Norfolk and Western cars.  If anyone has that information, the set may come together much easier.  For example, does Sandy Creek still have the same configuration as it did when it ran on the 20th century limited?  I know it has had several owners over time.  If it does then the design work is mostly done outside of graphics.  On top of that, if someone has the heritage of each of the cars, there is a chance that a limited number would be painted for the original road to offset the minimum car order of what is normally 2000 cars total.  Single car purchases interest some, while others want complete sets.   

 

I'd also consider marketing this to go with anyone who has a J-611 since it will soon be pulling these cars.  The F9s need some research, but as I mentioned earlier, if there are enough orders to justify a modified tool for the F9 in addition to the F7, it can happen. 

 

Keep up your efforts and don't get too discouraged.  This is a good project idea and it just needs to get promoted in the right circles.  Right now the pre-orders for both the Powhatan Arrow and the Cincinnatian are strong as prototypical five car sets because not everyone can run an 8-12 car set on their layout.  This is a train that has run in shorter lengths and has been pulled by lots of different NS locomotives beyond the F9s.  The generator car alone would be a very interesting piece for any modern passenger car collector.

 

Hang in there and keep lobbying!

Scott hasn't been doing dummies lately because 60% of the market for 3rd Rail is going to 2 rail now

 

Jonathan, do I see a name change in the works (from 3rd Rail to 2nd Rail)

Bob,

 

That's the "Sunset" portion of Sunset/3rd Rail company name.

Brian (Passenger Train Collector) wrote:

 

Looks like about seven would have an interest. These numbers probably will not create much interest in this project. I am a little surprised that there has not been more interest based upon what they are getting on the secondary market.

 

The 3-Rail Board was of no help. Thanks to all of you who took the time to reply.

 

 

Brian....I would love one......but I also love too many other trains......and since it would blow my train budget for a few years, I have to pass.....great idea, though.

 

Peter

That about sums things up for many folks today.  We've finally hit the point where a critical mass of enthusiasts has realized they have way too much of a good thing already.  So new purchases tend to be heavily scrutinized/justified before pulling the trigger.

 

Case in point... The only Lionel BTO item i pre-ordered was the PE Berk (in black).  I would have purchased that if it were BTO or not.   For all the hype surrounding BTO, I wasn't drawn into the frey in the very least.  I think the days of ridiculously long, multi-thousand-dollar, pre-order lists are a thing of the past -- even for folks blessed with the means to purchase these items.

 

Don't be too discouraged yet, Brian.  Although this forum has grown over the years, there's still a significant number of potential toy train buyers who don't go near a computer each day.  Over the years my wife and I would stay at B&B's when attending York, I was always in the minority when I asked folks at the breakfast table if they knew about the OGR forum... And an even smaller minority in terms of being an active participant On the forum.

 

David

Thanks Jonathan and all of you for your comments. I won't give up on this project.

Jack, good catch!

 

Just hope they don't ride off into the "Sunset" and forget about us 3-rail guys.

 

I WOULD be interested in a 5-car Seaboard Air Line "Silver Meteor", "Silver Comet", or "Silver Star" if given enough lead time to collect the cash.

 A fella just posted on the Wanted board looking for the MTH DAP complete set. He evidently is somehow involved with the real NS train and has interest in owning a good model in O scale. (doesn't want the RK or Williams items) There are probably many in the hobby who would purchase these when the availability becomes known. As Brian has said, this a current and beautiful train that the general public has some awareness of. Let's hope that GGD gives this a green light!

It sure would be nice if the entire set with the correct passenger cars was made to replicate this train. I believe there would be a good market for it.

The F9's in the NS train started life as F7's so I doubt that they would be too far off from Scott's F units. They became F9's when they were rebuilt for MARC's predecessor and received a horsepower upgrade.

 

5 of the cars in the current NS train are from the Conrail OCS, 3 of which are heavyweights. The heavyweights have received the turtle top roofs since becoming part of the NS train. These cars had clerestory roofs in the Conrail train. Other than paint I imagine the remaining 2 cars are similar to their appearance in Conrail times.

 

5 of the current 22 cars are from the 1949 Arrow cars that GGD has announced, so it would seem to me that there is a reasonable foundation to an OCS set. Plus to my knowledge the Sandy Creek has the same window pattern as in NYC service.

 

Steve