I found it interesting that outside the hobby tech gurus found it strange there were two command control systems from rival manufactures.

 

I would have thought this would be very familiar. Would you expect your X Box One to play Playstation games? No didn't think so. 

 

If you want a particular game that is only available for one of the consoles you have to buy it to run the game.

 

If you think of the locomotives as the "Killer App" that makes you buy the control system.

I had all Lionel TMCC/Legacy until I came upon a MTH scale J class and just had to have it

 I bought DCS at the same time. The J class was the "Killer App".

 

Hope that sort of makes sense.

 

Nick

I guess for me, trains are an opportunity to remove myself from the world as it is, and put myself in the world of my choosing.  I would not choose to use that kind of tech to run my trains, just like I don't use that kind of tech when I'm out on the water.  For example, this is a picture of me sailing my "yacht":

It was designed in 1914.  And while it has a fiberglass hull and dacron sails, pretty much everything else about her hails from 1914 technology.  Wood spars, bronze blocks etc...

 

I don't have a GPS, a depth-finder, a wind-gauge, or even an on-board battery to run those things on.  I rely on my wits, scanning the sky for incoming weather, and the feel of the breeze on my face.

 

I do carry a small hand-held ship-to-shore radio for reporting emergencies with other boats.  But I've never had to use it.

 

It's the same deal with running trains.  I want to feel the control in my hand... not virtually understand it.

 

Jon  

The manufactures want to make enough money off of each one. For instance MTH has proto 1,2,3 what next the battery thing is so obsolete. This is the same thing I see with the flash codes that are differ in each board. These boards should have it all and the boards shouldnt be so delicate. 

This thread reminds me of discussions in the motorcycle world back in the late sixties.
Honda took over the market share from the British because they made bikes with horizontal crankcase seams that did not leak oil on your driveway and had push button electric start.

The British still had drip pans under their bikes in their showrooms.
And thought real bikers enjoyed kick starting bikes.

They also had a 4 cylinder bike on the drafting table but figured that it was wise not to mess with what works. They were forced to build a triple to stay competitive in racing against Harley.
Needless to say, technology won out and the new generation preferred the convienence and reliability of the new products.
FMH

I have been having a bad run of luck with MTH Proto 2 engines failing. I take an engine out of the box that ran when I put it in. POOF!. Dead. I keep putting money into them. I am about ready to stop fixing them. 4 diodes and forward only.

Of course, I still own 3 of those "obsolete " British bikes and a very innovative for it's time a 40 year old Italian race bike.

Only run conventional and TMCC myself.
No special reason except that maybe I own too much train stuff already and never sold anything yet.

Interesting analog.  That being said the Hondas were of better mechanical quality and more reliable.  I think the new trains operate in a very realistic manner but it is questionable that they are of the same quality/durability as the better quality postwar equipment.  

The idea that high tech will draw the young into the hobby to a significant extent as to make a difference in anything is a fallacy and a pipe dream.

 

The Past:

Why is the transition era so popular? Its what we not they grew up with...duh For us, trains once held an extremely public role and passenger trains were a source of pride. A significant number of Americans worked for the roads. They were more diverse in equipment and were more regional, had more variety and steam held a fascination for most that could not be replaced by the diesel.Billboard box cars had a enormous variety of slogans and badges. The cabooses with a waving flagman...there was a romance there with the rails that has been replaced with a sameness like a conveyor belt. We had Alco, Baldwin, Whitcomb, Fairbanks-Morse...again.. a lot of variety. All this drove us to model it as to participate in it.

 

The Present:

We had no high tech as we had no basis of comparison. We could not want what did not exist. Its a different world today. Running trains in circles regardless of the control system just does not have the same "sexiness" as synthetic entertainment...it cannot do as much. These high tech control systems only exist because the manufacturers have another product line to sell..period. 

 

As long as folks want the latest fad it will increase in complexity. Common sense prevails regardless of opinion.

Why I use "outdated" technology to run my trains:  I am not afflicted by Novelitis--the desire to have only the "Latest and Greatest."  I don't throw out old technology of any kind until it is no longer repairable.  I don't have cable or satellite; my TV is CRT; I still listen to LPs on a turntable; most of my recorded movies are on VCR tapes; my phone is not only dumb, I don't don't know how to use any feature on it but making and recieving a call; my daily-driver pickup is a 1969 model and my tractors are from the '40s; my other hobby is ACW reenacting, which I really enjoy because I can escape the phone, computer, and the rest of modern technology completely.  I don't believe in "oudated."  If it worked years ago and continues to work now, I am happy.

 

And I only run steam engines

Flip phone here too Jon.

 

Art

DING, DING, DING, DING, DING, DING, DING, DING.....

 

KD

For 95 years of this hobby, running your trains was a transformer with two wires to the track. If you wanted to really get "complicated," you could use insulated blocks of track with either relays or toggle switches.

 

For as long as there have been "technological" advances, we've been told these advances will make our lives easier and better. A quick look at our culture today says otherwise. Psychologists say complaints of loneliness and isolation are at an all time high in America. Why? With all this wonderful social media, we should be more connected than ever. Suicide is one of the leading causes of death in America, and middle aged men is the fastest growing suicide group. Divorce levels are still high.... hmmm, sounds to me like people have false expectations and the wrong attitude.

 

I'm not trying to take the thread off track, nor am I going to argue the merits of this thread or many others like it. But to me, they illustrate an attitude of unhappiness that seems to run through our culture.

 

No matter what we have and are blessed with, for some, it's never enough. There are so many threads on the forum that are full of complaining and unhappiness.

 

Look at the Lionel catalog threads: Instead of being happy with the efforts Lionel is making, it's nearly always complaints or how what Lionel is doing isn't good enough. And if you compare the Ready To Run catalog versus, the Signature catalogs, far more effort has gone into the Signature line, yet you don't read the same level of grumbling with the R-T-R line up.

 

To me, it doesn't matter about technology. If you're a person who is continually unsatisfied and unhappy in life, then it wouldn't matter if you could run your trains with cosmic brain waves... it still wouldn't make some people happy. It's the old adage, is the glass half full or half empty? Are you happy with what Lionel did catalog this year, or are you miserable with what they didn't make for YOU?

 

I dare say, given what I read here and in the culture, no matter what new technology is available to run trains, some people will still find something wrong with it. If you can't be happy with what you NOW have, you'll never be happy with what is yet to come.

This whole question/issue of using 'the latest technology' reminds me of the 'obsnerdity' played out in an early episode of Big Bang Theory.  Howard, Raj, Leonard, and Sheldon had just hooked up a daisy-chain of communications, links, beamed signals bounced off the moon, etc., around the world and through outer space....to turn on a light in Sheldon/Leonard's apartment with their computer.  And all that played out against Fanfare for the Common Man, by Aaron Copeland, as well!

 

Penny enters the apartment amidst their celebration, high-fives of success.  They repeat the...feat...for her, to which she mumbled something like 'So, it's a switch?', or 'Why didn't you just use the switch?'.  ....Which of course deflated their egos....but only for a millisecond.

 

Frankly, I'm not too old to rather want to gain the admiration of a 'Penny'...and peace of mind for myself...with simpler, less expensive technology. 

 

OTOH, I am in total admiration of the hobby's standardization and compatible growth of the DCC system for 2-rail...O, HO, N, G, S, etc., etc., etc..  Lucky them!  Kudos to the NMRA and those industries supporting the standardization and compatible growth!!

 

Rechargeable batteries.  Radio control.  Ditching the third rail once and for all.  It's there for G.  It's doable for O.  Go to the RCS America booth at York. 

 

I'll wait.

 

I do not think a 3rd party digital system is likely to replace the current ones unless:
1.  Upgrade kits are cheap $50-$75
2.  Easy to install
3.  Include all current features and sounds

All very unlikely.

Even then, you will eventually need MTH and Lionel to use it (so we don't have to continue to do upgrades).

More likely it will be used by a small minority of dedicated early-adopters.

Bob

 

Yes, I thought so too!

I totally agree with Bob here. It would be pretty much impossible for a third party to make inroads into the 3 rail command control game. I think upgrades would have to be less than $50.

 

I guess I misunderstood the meaning of this thread. I thought the original poster, Gary, was asking why aren't the users of this hobby offered the latest technology. Judging by the responses I guess the real meaning was why aren't the users taking it upon themselves to use the latest technology.

 

I like DCC. It's been around for 24 years. I'm very happy with it and I have no need to update to something else. 

 

For or years I have been reading that rechargeable batterise and remote control are the future of this hobby. I think most folks who prefer command control outside of 3 rail O like having one system to run their trains. Switching over to battery power would require at least adding another system or else they would have to retrofit all of their locomotives. I guess to start off battery powered engines may have to have the ability to run from the battery or track power. I don't know but when any major manufacturer of O or HO scale offers locomotives with battery power only THEN will I believe it. I mean, it's like everyone here says the technology is out there now yet no manufacturers are offering it. Must be a reason why. 

 

When end I upgraded to flat screen HD TV, which I love--it's much better than CRT, I paid almost $1500. I still have it and still love it. They are of course cheaper now. If anyone thinks I will trash a perfectly good TV to get a curved one or a 3D version they are nuts. I like technology I have and I am sticking with it. 

Personally..I don't think toy trains are a major arbiter of happiness, whatever that is.

if so, that would be a frightening development. We all have opinions..none better than others. Mileage will vary.

"For as long as there have been "technological" advances, we've been told these advances will make our lives easier and better. A quick look at our culture today says otherwise. Psychologists say complaints of loneliness and isolation are at an all time high in America. Why? With all this wonderful social media, we should be more connected than ever. Suicide is one of the leading causes of death in America, and middle aged men is the fastest growing suicide group. Divorce levels are still high.... hmmm, sounds to me like people have false expectations and the wrong attitude."

Interesting thought. Kind of like the misconception that the olden days were better. Just different in my opinion.
Indoor plumbing was considered "new fangled" technology at one time. And I am sure it was one of those "half empty" guys who got tired of going outside in the freezing cold to go to the bathroom. So wasn't the steam locomotive and horseless carriage. Products of the devil according to some Ludites.
I remember being extremely hesitant to adopt TMCC. I have since made several conversions and still run conventional.
I never had trains as a kid so I have no fond memories of the old school trains. And if quality means the difference between a heavy galvanized bucket verses a light weight plastic jug to haul water, then they were surely better quality. I still prefer the detail of some of the K-line TMCC stuff I collect.

Except there is DCC;  a standards based control system that the largest contingency of model railroaders.   

 

Video games consoles are a poor comparison - they have always been proprietary in nature, but even today - the popular games are released across all platforms.  They all have web browsers, and they all leverage the same common networking/communications protocol.  TCP-IP/The Internet is the common denominator.   The all speak the same language.  Even computers with different operating systems have common file formats, networking protocols, and a large degree of interoperability.  They also leverage almost exclusively the same hardware underneath.   

 

We already have a standard, DCC, and if ALL the industry heavyweights put their muscle behind it, the associated economies of scale would likely accelerate the adoption a lot of the technology already discussed in this thread.  At least MTH acknowledges DCC - Lionel still has their fingers in their ears, and that isn't likely to change, what with both Mth and Lionel trying eek out a meager profit from a small, fractured market.  Because many in this hobby are not adept with computer technology, we accept it, and continue to fight these absurd "turf wars" between two competing solutions that, in truth, should probably both be irrelevant/obsolete.  

 

When Apple Computer switched from Motorola processors to Intel PC processors, a lot of people predicted that it would ultimately lead to the demise of Apple - after all, what good was a "different" PC that wasn't really different after all.  Yet Apple held on to it's best intellectual property while still creating a more standardized platform that could integrate easily into more environments.  They opened up a large portion of their code base, attracted developers, and created a better environment that was largely based on standards instead of the proprietary nonsense that had previously define the company.  

 

Electroliner has it right in the end:  none of this really even matters.  Without a connection to actual RAILROADING, there's really nothing there for the next generation.  If they don't understand the history and the importance of railroads and their role in building this country, them its all rather pointless.  That's the "glue" - we've lost the piece that 'sticks' railroads in the hearts and minds of children.  It doesn't matter if someone comes out with 'Mind Control' for trains - it's the 'trains' part that has lost it's meaning.  

 

Lest anyone think this is unique to trains, I would direct you to another iconic piece of Americana - the automobile.   Here's a shocker - a lot of kids just aren't into cars anymore.  What was once a rite of passage to most of us has become nothing more than an appliance to the next generation.   Cars used to be a symbol of freedom - a mechanism that broke us free from out childhood bonds and enabled us to explore and socialize outside a limited sphere of influence.  Now.... there's Facebook, Pintrest, Chat, etc.  You can reach out and communicate with someone anywhere on the face of the planet anytime you want with a device that fits on your pocket.  

 

And the world turns...   

I UNDERSTAND that they are coming out with a HEADSET where you place the headset on your forehead and just control  all your trains by thought. 

 

This requires all users to have a thought; so some of you still using the older ZWs well you are still on your own and way out of luck!

and only a politition will be able to run it...they're the only ones who can think in circles

Funny...true...sad..but funny

I know what you mean; I saw a recent thread on removal of oil stains on a carpet central layout.

 

As I've said, I'm not a Luddite, and agree with the generational change to technology conveniences. I am comfortable with the model railroad technology I have.

 

 

Also, I believe that the manufacturers must adapt to successive generations' norms as far as hobby technology is concerned.  Otherwise they would be out of business when all we old-tech fogies are gone. The Brit bike manufacturers, of course, didn't adapt. 

 

Ipad train control is up-to-date and in a lot of people's comfort zone. That's a major selling point I think.

 

My own problem is that the inside of my brain has a striking resemblance to this picture:   http://tinyurl.com/mlr2gzc

I embrace new technology in many areas. There are state-of-the-art computers here, my car runs on a full digital CAN system, we have wide screen HDTV, video on demand, DVR, recording devices, smart phones, tablets, laptops and digital audio. However, when it comes to modern trains the same durability and reliability is just not there.

You can take any one of my engines that were made 20-60 years ago out of the boxes and they will run perfectly. At the worst maybe a couple of drops of oil will be needed.

The new technology trains with all the nice bells whistles, sounds, controls and added detail, look and operate great but are not capable of meeting my reliability standard and American made expectation. So just call me cheap, unrealistic and backwards, but  I'll keep on smiling while my trains run without issues,. 

Yes it is a app. There is a Bluetooth receiver mounted in the engine that is piggybacked to a DCC board. As demoed by Bachman rep at the I-Hobby show. Even had a engine body off to show. What they do with O scale is yet to be developed.

Gentlemen,

   In reality our civilian world is definitely behind in the use of electrical technology,

it always has been, as the military declassifies more and more of the modern remote control technology, I think you will see our hobby take some serious big time remote control leaps into the future.  Unfortunately this all happens a little at a time over a long period of time.

PCRR/Dave

For me, this hobby offers an escape from all the computers and all the other "high tech" stress-creating crap I live with otherwise.  Why would I want to bring these headaches into my pastime?  As if the $2,000 price tag Lionel puts on a single new locomotive is any incentive to begin with!

I feel we are stuck with our controls systems and what they do. Lionel and MTH don't sell millions of products a year, like Apple, Samsung, Sony etc. They just do not have the cash flow to spend on new technologies.

 I am sure it can be done cheaper, better or whatever. Lionel and MTH and the rest of manufactures need a common based system like DCC

 

Todd

I don't care if you operate your trains by pushing them around the track with a croupier's rake or use mental telepathy to control them.  Why should it matter to you how I run my trains?

 

Enough, already!

 

Pete

Some grist for your mill:

 

 

Done with an on-board LiPo rechargeable battery in the B-Unit, and Bluetooth.

From the BlueRailTrains' YouTube channel: https://www.youtube.com/channe...drusp1-MXxZESyaARnig

Why are we running our trains with outdated technology? Because we can.

Amen

I understand the importance of backwards compatibility, but if a product's development is forever constrained because the manufacturer must keep one foot in the past I fear the other foot is in the grave.

 

Many forum responders wear their detest for technology like a badge of honor with prideful claims about removing dead hands from transformers.  I am 40 (So I am old, but I imagine younger than the average contributor to this forum).  If not for Legacy I would not have entered the hobby.  I had no interest in being tethered to a transformer and running trains like my grandfather did.  I could relate to legacy remote controlled trains so I bought-in.

 

If this hobby will endure it has to considered relevant by the next generation.  For that reason I hope that Lionel and MTH push the technological envelope and I wish they would shake off the allegiance to yesteryear and commit to the future.

 

It is not about how you run your trains, it is about how the next generation will, if at all.

  I am 63 and embrace DCS, just has too much to offer vs old school. I use tablets and smart phones and tv's as well and am looking forward to "tablet control" for my trains when offered. There is no denying GUI will proceed into our train worlds.

You mean like this?

  Photo from previous post is tried and true for sure..part of the evolution process. But i need this to run these.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AZ_WjCrtmgk

 

Here's mine.....

 

I just bought a ZW in great condition to go with two LW's and two KW's. Could not be happier.

Just to clarify - the bluetooth processor is mounted to the loco's printed circuit board - no DCC decoder is present. THIS PRODUCT IS NOT DCC.