Why aren't people BUILDING models any more?

I find I am limited in space and time  compared to HO. It takes allot longer to create a O scale building than an HO craftsman kit. Thus I take the mock up approach.

I buy pre-made buildings until I find a more unique one to replace it...

Finally, builders surface!  Good to see remarks and pics of work done and in progress.  Encourage more of the same, inspires others (me) to stick with it.  Again, Thanks!

Gary,

You are so correct. There are seven high schools in my area. The three older stopped offering the courses due to lack of interest more than fifteen years ago. The four newer schools have nothing to offer in the Industrial Arts. Two of the high schools do offer college level pre-med courses.

At least my children grew up with access to my small machine shop in our garage. My boys still like to come over and work at home. They phone ahead to confirm that their sisters are not here first. lol!

Industrial arts?

The lack of interest in "Industrial arts" is probably one of the reasons that interest in Model Railroading in any scale is constantly diminishing.
In our local schools, the traditional shop equipment that still exists is no longer used. I think its considered too dangerous for the kids to be able to operate. My older son took a CAD drawing class in High School, and a class where they were supposed to use a small CNC machine or two, but I don't think anything ever got made.
Both boys took a basic wood shop class where they made a few things using hand tools.

Tools, yes!!, Tools.  As the adventure continues I have a photo bucket file of tools. 

It was interesting as my children were off to college many years ago, each was given a tool set/box, simple hand tools.  Surprisingly the tools became a dorm magnet, the young lady with tools became popular, if for no other reason than she had the tools

You would have to think a lot of homes have very limited tools, if any. 

Basic tools, add a hammer, utilty knife, and adjustable wrench

 From the tote tray/wooden box.  You can get a lot done with these tools.

I'm guilty of not posting due to lack of any interest.

 I have built some myself, in G scale. There aren't the models I desire so I have to. It is rewarding and I will do it again.

 In O scale, my time is spent converting models to 2 rail that aren't available or were a great deal as three rail. There's also repairs that take up time and energy and of course, life gets in the way!

 I feel that everyone should try to build something. It doesn't have to be a building, or engine, or anything like that. Just building your layout should be enough. There's a reward for some, in laying their own track, or bashing some equipment together. It adds a type of satisfaction when it comes together that you did it!

 After spending so much energy, I can only admire the guys who get everything done for them. It's all good!!!

My wife and I have been completing about one kit or redo of a purchased structure a month. We have a number still to complete. Summer is boating season and, while we took things to work on, the primary one that we were doing just didn't suit and we modified it a lot. Ordered some things necessary to complete it and should have next week. Will post when done.

We have found that the time required is pretty significant and the cost is not low due to the lighting, interior detail, one changes that we do. It is rewarding But not for everyone.

Years ago, I made models of various kinds and it has taken time to renew those skills as well as acquire the tools, parts inventory, etc that is needed. I suspect that a lot of people are happy to buy a structure, and run with it. Realistically that has an appeal to us but we won't do it because we want a more customized look.

We would enjoy seeing more of what people are doing. It seems that many have stopped posting as often but perhaps it is a seasonal thing.

Thanks for this post.

Many working people are experiencing an almost return of the robber baron era where you're expected to live and breathe your job and nothing else.

That doesn't leave much time for scratchbuilding.

Read these to see what working stiff are being expected to do these days:

http://www.nytimes.com/2015/08...id=tw-share&_r=1 and http://www.nytimes.com/2015/08...anage-your-time.html

Where I work, it's not nearly that bad, but "work/life balance" is the punchline to a joke at my office. Like many companies, we're permanently understaffed and overtime is something we've had every week for several years with no end in sight. Time off is almost always denied (heck, I was denied for jury duty once) and you can't just decide one day to take a day off for something. I live pretty close to where the NMRA convention is going on but I couldn't get a single day off for it. I tell my friends that if something is going on within less than a few months and it's on a work day, to not even tell me it's going on as it'll just be something else I won't be able to get time off for.

So, if you have a job, this is where it's all going to (that is until the 20-somethings rebel as they value time off over anything else so these companies can't sustain this, "you live only for the company" mindset that is common right now). Knowing this, I'm not at all surprised that RTR stuff is so popular right now. There's no time for working people to do build kits (I keep reading that births are rapidly decreasing in this country lately, and I'm convinced this is probably a root cause for that, too).

That said, I only have one RTR structure (a heavily modified Woodland Scenics Ethyl's gas station) on my layout and that's because it looks exactly like what I was looking for. It's all a balance between kits and scratchbuilt stuff. But keep in mind, that was over a year's worth of building stuff before I even had a track plan.

Linking to NY Times articles doesn't help much. In order to read them you have to set up an account and then log in and accept about 8 cookies from their web site.

There is no way I would EVER allow the NY Times to put 8 cookies on my computer.

I do not spend a whole lot of time worrying about why others do or do not enjoy their hobby in a specific way.  It is certainly true that O Scale is of more interest to the over 40 crowd, perhaps because we are not quite as connected as younger folk.

My interest in scratch building is locomotives.  My problem is that once I have mastered some technique, I want to move on to something else.  If I never machine another driver tire, I will not miss it.

I have almost zero desire to build scenery, and less than zero desire to build structures - even water tanks are of no interest, from a scratch or kit-building perspective.  These are worthwhile endeavors, just not for me.

I, for a while, got a kick out of scratch building tank cars, but even that has run its course.  I think a hobby is to make you happy, and if that hobby is RTR trains, then great - go for it.

Cookies?  Me wants cookies!

You can read a certain number of NY Times articles without having an account. Once the threshold is exceeded, you must purchase a subscription to continue reading articles.

I can confirm that the NY Times will place cookies on your machine. What site doesn't?

I count 20 cookies from going to the OGR forum without logging in.

Then there are 24 cookies after logging in.

Also a couple of cookies from adpeephosted.com

What's the big deal with cookies?

For those that are concerned, Firefox has an option to delete all cookies and other history on exit.

Lots of great comments already.  I'll only add a couple of thoughts...

First and foremost, building kits is a labor of love. PERIOD.  You've gotta truly LOVE the concept of creating, tinkering, painting and adding all the details that make something uniquely yours and take solace in doing exactly that.  Plus you also need dedicated time.  Back in the 1970's when I dabbled in HO trains, I built many terrific models from a company call Campbell Scale Models that came in those red plaid boxes.  I think they're still in business.

So I spot-checked something I built over 30 years ago... and found the #307 HO Wharf is still available today as a kit for $90 or so.  Now jump over to the buildings Woodland Scenics is delivering into the O-Scale market today for $95-$120 FULLY ASSEMBLED.  We can all do the math.

In O-Gauge, even companies like Woodland Scenics who offer a kit-option as well as the "already built" structure... the price difference is unbelievably negligible considering the HOURS it takes to assemble kits, paint them, and ultimately do all the detailing.  So from a a pure price/performance standpoint... by the time you "pay yourself", the minimal price difference between kits and fully-built models is too close to ignore -- even for the sake of those who enjoy the building process in its own right.

Secondly... we always need to look at the target audience when drawing conclusions like those discussed in this thread.  In the 3-rail market, there appears to be a preponderance of folks who want RTR stuff... whether it's track, locomotives, rolling stock, electronics, or scenery structures.  And when speaking of the latter, 3-rail folks seem more than willing  to dig deep and PAY for the ability to own ready-to-use, fully-assembled masterpieces of well-built scenic structures.  The folks at TrainWorx Design (based in Texas) are a testament to this phenomenon.  The bridge and station structures they're providing to our hobby are nothing short of state-of-the-art masterpieces, but we're definitely paying PREMIUM dollars for the instant gratification provided.

Now jump over to the 2-rail side of the house... or even jump to a different scale like HO and N... and we'll likely find a much larger percentage of folks who won't think twice about hand-laying track and/or building custom turnouts with jigs, etc...  I really admire folks who simply enjoy that level of craftsmanship.  I never had the patience to lay track by hand or build custom turnouts, but I did build my own HO electronic momentum throttles back in the day based on Bruce Chubb's TAT IV circuit designs.  The ultra-smooth, slow-speed operation results were better than anything I could have achieved by purchasing RTR products on the market in those days.  No question.  So the results were gratifying, to say the very least.

There's no right or wrong answer here... just a huge spectrum of people, products, services, and scenarios at play.  I'm fortunate enough to be well past the cultural pressures present in today's workforce, where corporate workers feel beholden to their jobs/bosses to the point they CAN'T take time to relax and "smell the roses" -- even when they're on a paid vacation.  But we all have other kinds of pressures in life, so there's always the need to maintain a delicate balance when viewing "the big picture".  The demographics at play here -- including unexpected health issues that tend to hit us in our later years (but not necessarily unique to those years) -- support a variety of approaches to "enjoying the hobby".

Some folks may choose to have a soup-to-nuts railroad empire built for them in a turnkey fashion from Dunham Studios or Trainworx Designs.  And other folks are blessed with all the time in the world to literally do it all... from hand-laying track with individual rail spikes to building each and every structure (buildings, trestles, bridges, etc...) from kits containing hundreds or even thousands of individual pieces/components.

It really is a great hobby to explore as we choose.

David 

I have build several kits; but they are far from perfect.  I just wish I had both the skill  and the PATIENCE to build a decent-looking kit.  The ones that I have done, I enjoyed doing; but I have a hard time getting started.

   I bought a kit from a train show 6 months ago and I still have not started it.  I look at it from time to time and I say to myself that I am going to start working on it soon; but so far I have not.

   I have a habit of starting projects and not finishing them; so most of the time I buy RTR items; even though I would love to learn how to build more from scratch or models.

    I remember once when someone showed me their layout and said, "Do you see that house?"...I said yes...He said it was a copy of his own house that he built on his layout.

  I just wish I could do something like that

Sorry, I didn't have that problem at all when I looked it up. How odd...

Great points, David!

People don't build because ... "its a dog-eat-dog RTR if it aint perfect-straight-outa-da-box-I-don't-want-it-waaaaaah world!"  (someone wrote that on another forum)

I've always enjoyed building and detailing structures and engines. But many people choose put their time into beautiful scenery and such ... which I don't do. Its all good.

You get 10 free NY Times articles each month, without any registration.

However, if you're careful, a subscription is cheap. Watch for offers. I have a digital subscription to the Times (vs a print subscription because things are always happening in the world realtime) at 3 months for a total of 99cents. And, 99cents per month is offered frequently.

Here's another:

This started out as a MTH Railking gondola, probably the first piece of rolling stock I bought.

When I realized RK stuff was too narrow it ticked me off so I made new ends and a bottom, keeping the sides.  It ended up as a nice model of a Seaboard low-side gondola (I think they were 30" or 36" inside height).  The one behind it was totally scratchbuilt.

Of the 2 cabs in the photo the one on the left was scratchbuilt while the one on the right was modified from a MTH caboose.  I always felt there was something wrong with the scratchbuilt caboose, then I realized I forgot to put the framework around the window cutouts , since been corrected and you can notice the difference:

 BEFORE

AFTER

.....I made traction freight cars out of them!!!

quote:

However, if you're careful, a subscription is cheap. Watch for offers. I have a digital subscription to the Times (vs a print subscription because things are always happening in the world realtime) at 3 months for a total of 99cents. And, 99cents per month is offered frequently.

I get the print edition of the Sunday times. A standard level online subscription is included in the price. They have some sort of premium level online subscription available too.

When I posted one of my projects, something totally unexpected happened-I met several guys who have the same interest.  Now, I e-mail with them frequently.  Great way to share ideas and solve problems.  Helpful suggestions can save hours and frustration.

Good thread....

To the original question:

1. Too impatient
2. Too tedious
3. Too time consuming
4. End result will look like what Cooper leaves in my back yard
5. What I make from scratch will just blow chucks and become the first flying rail car (from me tossing it in frustration).

Even if a kit, already painted, etc, it requires glue and the old patience thing.  Not going to happen.

If it ain't already made or coming to market, then I will wait.

We are going to offer both kits and built-up models for full buildings and fronts in the coming months. Our built-up models will be offered in the form of a series on a limited run basis. Each piece will be custom painted using alternate masonry, cast stone, window and ornamentals colors. The buildings will be made of laser scored and cut acrylic plastic, Taskboard and Laserboard.

In the buildings series, there will be a left side end structure, four interior structures and a right side end structure- the idea to make a neighborhood block. All buildings will have floors, ceilings and a roof. In the first series there will be three different width and height variations. The depths will be all the same. Basic rears will be provided, as well as appropriately detailed parting walls to allow the interior buildings to be interchangeable in position but still provide appropriate exposed wall detail. Buildings will be limited to between 3 and 5 pieces in each series.

In the building fronts series, there will just be finished fronts that are between 1/8" and 3/16" thick. Fronts will be limited to between 6 and 10 pieces in each series.

If there is a demand, we may consider shadow-box style also. These would be about 1" deep and would have simple side and parting walls.  The depth will allow the modeler to add interior detail.

All windows will be clear glazing unless translucent or opaque is requested.

As far as a series goes, each building in the block, say the left end structure, will be finished with the same colors. That color combination will not be repeated in future series runs. With elevation style, window options and color combination options no two runs will ever be the same.

Over the last couple years I've gone to kits or scratchbuilding for both structures and rolling stock. I want to model a specific railroad and time that the manufacturer's don't offer. Don't read that as I'm upset with the manufacturer's. If they tried to produce what I model, they would probably sell 4.

Building kits is fun, relaxing, requires thought, imagination, and planning. The combination works for ME. I understand it doesn't work for everyone, and I don't judge those that don't. It's a hobby. Whatever works for you.

My experience is that building kits is more expensive than RTR. I do it because I like doing it, not for financial gain. I can purchase a RTR boxcar, open the box, put it on the track, and run it, or I can spend a month of 10 minute intervals building one. The satisfaction for me lasts a lot longer with the kit than the thrill of opening the box.

I don't post my work much because there isn't much interest. Either I build terrible models, the subject matter is too obscure, or people aren't going to build kits anyway. I also don't take good pictures. That's a hobby that doesn't interest me much.

A few pic's of things I've built:

They are excellent, brr 

Nothing wrong with the photography, either.

Cheers

"Linking to NY Times articles doesn't help much. In order to read them you have to set up an account and then log in"

    I didn't have any problem reading the links, maybe it's your computer settings? 

 As to the original question, it's not that people are not building anything anymore it's just that there are a lot more RTR items available so most of us can spend less time building the components and more time installing them on the layout. I could spend the same amount of hours building now that I did 30 years ago but end up with a lot more accomplished because I'm not constantly re-inventing the wheel over and over again.....DaveB 

Thanks Bob D, catch you on Freerails sometime soon. You are proof that there are Americans still modelling and like me on strict budget .:>

Looking at all the examples presented in this thread by various people, are there threads on how you built each item? Much more interesting than talking about wish lists.

I always enjoyed the building articles in MR and the like. Old back issues showed ways of building even locos at minimal expense in O gauge. Crude, some might say, but they were trains that ran and you could recognize what they were. Depending on the  skills of each builder they could end up being very fine examples of craftsmanship or down at my level. However each modeller could take pride in their accomplishments.

I don't buy many structures kits but I usually treat them as a collection of scratchbuilding supplies.

When you buy RTR and plonk it down the only ones that can swell their chests out are the professionals who manufactured it.

So instead of bemoaning something is not available how about having a go? Even if you are not totally happy with your first effort it is part of the learning curve and it is unique. Best of all show others as you go. And if you didn't make any mistakes along the way then you probably didn't learn anything either!

regards

 Bob Comerford

I have humbly started my  first modeling project on a loco actually the tender, I want to convert the low sided coal bunker on a lionel 4-4-0 into a high sided one ala C&NW.  Am keeping a few photos to post.  My first building project was a grain elevator silo.  Drew no interest or comments so there is some truth to those who posted those thoughts. I will say that some of the projects being posted could do a better job of " how did I do it" explanation along with photos. I know that I should have done that but did not.

I love scratchbuilding but there was a steep learning curve for me. I have a couple of 5 gallon buckets full of cabooses, HO & O that did not make the cut.  Styrene is my favorite medium although I am about to try producing a resin cab. I am making the masters now but it is slow going. I dread the learning curve with resin!!

I am working on 4 right now, 2 Atlantic and Danville and 2 EJ&E. I have 8 hanging in the paint shop too, 6 IC and 2 CN. I still like to build the old All Nation and Athearn kits too. The Quality Craft/Ambroid kits are a challenge for me because I am not good with wood.

But what do you call building? Is it kits, is it scratch building, is it a large layout and maintaining it, everything in Model Railroads is building your always building something.

I am in the process of looking at replacing the control panels on the layout with touch screens is that building?

All my rolling stock is modified for better running and operation is that building.

All have Kadees,  most have Intermountain wheels.

I have 50 odd cars converted from 3 to 2 -rail is that is building?

I don't have television or read newspapers I devote my time to my family, my Railroad, and Long distance hiking in the Aussie bush in that order. I belong to two forums this one and one in England I limit my time on the computer and don't overuse it.

I would throw it in the bin where the TV ended up if it interfered with my three above passions.

I am always building, building, building and I need two workshops to keep building.

There are lots of blokes around that do the same I'm no different from anyone else.

Building is not dead just more people in the hobby buying things populations are increasing plenty of people still building and loving it we builders are not in an elite group just average people enjoying the hobby.

Back to building, putting in some new sidings for more operation.

Roo.

I think it boils down to skill sets, or lack of them on choices.

I loop my trains hands free, and build.

 My caveman campfire on rails. Peaceful.

I think we have a slightly different national view of things here Roo.

  America isn't the country full of "builders" it once was. Some alluded to this.

Quality isn't in fashion. "Buy new, look new" and new branding is. Rural is out, City is in.

   I bet you could offer a higher quality hand built cheaper, and they wouldn't outsell a molded big name unit among younger buyers today. If they hear "wood", it better be a skateboard. "Handmade?", it better be a tailored suit or dress.

  While there is something to be said for RTR instant gratification, to never try or to have zero interest to build anything is.....funny..in a "it hurts to much to cry" way.

  Is fear of failure, and critiques without tactful approach (Ie, peer pressure) expected for anything but the best in scale? Is it stopping some folk from just doing their best on kits more often......I honestly think it is, on occasion at least.

 Photos of Michael Angelo's work, never stopped me from "doodling", but a critic at the wrong moment might have.  

Skills-gained and lost

There isn't anything I've ever bought that equaled the satisfaction of a hand build item, even when the artisan was 4yrs old.

 If the work is actually done at a "professional" level, there is no greater success in life other than love. Nothing ventured nothing gained.  

 "Shop" and vocational budgets were regularly cut from America's state funded public schooling, for buying computers during the 80's and 90's, in delusional hopes we would all become mid-class office drones, with "servants" and 3rd world countries doing all the "hard" labor for us. (Now they do both, of "coarse").

 It wasn't lack of interest that doomed the Voc. classes at the time.

  It was the politics of "budgeting education"(that even "sounds" wrong), and what each administration was willing to do to be able to claim "we have computers here".

 Also in play here in Detroit was declining industry.

"An office job will be better for your children anyhow" was the "sales pitch".

 Not that the computer should be ignored, but who makes the tools, that make the machines, that make the computers for designing new tools for modeling?

 Only three students, faculty, and some teachers, were permitted to use these for the first few years. No classes were offered to others, until the public here started asking questions, and new school officials came to power. Only one example sure, localities vary. But a lot was lost and I know we weren't alone.

 The last recent high school final project that I saw done, was a varnished store bought plaque.

 It would have been awful, even if he was 12yrs old. He was 17 (and he got an A? ).

Not "woods" "metals" "electrical" or "Autos", just "shop"

  Why do I get the feeling I learned more industrial skills in our old "Home Economics" classroom section on "essential home tools" than I could in "shop" of today?

  My first use of tools in a classroom was in Twinsburg Ohio in third grade.

Crank drills, handsaws, hammer, and nails(needle nose pliers for the clumsy).

  I already knew what I was doing. Grandpa was a machinist, and I was his trained monkey at the drill press. I could already read faster than the teacher could , so he didn't doubt me and my rpm/materials/size references, and I helped the teacher, help the others.

  In short, I worry that the skills to build a pyramid wont be the only things lost to the future. Like how to fix a vacuum .

Idiocracy. A favorite. It explains many modern trends well. Orwell/1984 move over.   

I hesitate to mention the NMRA, but it promotes kit bashing and scratch building.

http://www.nmra.org/education/achievement-program

I'm a couple of Certificates away from my MMR - another reason to move to O scale.  Scratch building is more fun in O. 

Just sayin'

Cheers

Hi Nev, with your output I am surprised you have time for your other two interests mate.

The US isn't the only country to be sold that story we would be all employed in offices and the manual labour would be sent offshore... Australia has seen most work of any description sent offshore. Apparently we should be happy digging up dirt and serving coffee to tourists :>.

I see it not only in this scale and prototype but in many areas where the toy train set buying mentality has become the norm and individual craftsmanship is at best ignored.

 Well done Max, that is one thing I applaud the NMRA for is encouraging people to be complete modellers not just metal fabricators.

 regards

 Bob

Congrats, that's a heck of an acomplishment.  It's been on my 'bucket list' for many years.

It's gotten buried in all the information available, but there is a Scenery Source List, part of the Scenery and Structures Forum  A lot of links available here for those looking to get involved in build projects.

Best wishes

Mike CT 

And, here's a small recent project....

That's a cracker, mwb.

Excellent!  

Bob.

How are you going mate.

Good to hear from you.

Nev. (Roo)