Why do dealers...

I think that would be impossible for large volume dealers. If it would be tested, it would no longer be "new in the box" The locomotive would be delivered to you as a used unit. 

 

Instead of sending to the dealer and face possible charges, send them back to the manufacturer, let them deal with the headache of fixing the issues.

 

Responsibility for quality is a manufacturer issue. Perhaps you should write/email the manufacturer and share your disapointment in them. If enough complain, or better yet, stop buying, they will change. (or go out of business)

There are dealers that will gladly test run the locomotive before the sale.If your LHS refuses to test a locomotive,move on and find a dealer that will test the locomotive thoroughly before you take possession or he ships it. I buy my new engines from a couple of great dealers that insist they give the new engines a good shakedown.Thus,I have had zero locomotive problems.Remember,YOU are the customer.

 

Ricky

Many dealer do not test locomotivew before shipping unless requested.

Did you request then to test these locomotives?

 

Also, a locomotive may test alright in their shop but  the electronic boards may loosen and other damage can occur during shipment

I don't really want them messing with mine..... for me to open.... besides, I assume MTH still tests 100% of their engines before they ship them.... 

I always have the dealer test any locomotive or operating car before I pay for it. Saves a lot of time and headaches later. I don't think that testing a locomotive makes it used anymore than taking a car for a test drive makes it a used car. It's not like it has been run for dozens of hours on someones layout, usually a few trips around the shops layout and test of horn/whistle or whatever else it's supposed to do just to be sure it's OK. It would be nice if mail order engines would be tested before they send them to you but that can become a logistical nightmare for the dealer, plus I'd like to be there to see it tested.

 

Jerry

surefire I would call the dealer tomorrow and see what they can do for you to correct the situation. They may offer to exchange the items for you . if not, It may be the best and easiest way to get the issue resolved could be to return the items to Lionel .

 

Many, many folks do NOT want their dealer to even open the box, let alone "test/play" with the model. Since MTH test every one of their locomotives prior to shipping, all the more reason for NOT wanting the dealer fooling with it.

Sound advice. Two of my "LHS", one (that I try not to frequent) tests all locomotives before going on the shelf for sale once they are received in stock. The owner mentioned it to me after having an issue. It is not only an embarrassment to them and the product but also a PITA business wise should an issue crop up. 

 

My "main" dealer doesn't do such tests upon receiving in stock but before he ships something out, always puts it for a few spins on the layout. If buying in house, also insists it takes a few spins to the buyer is happy. 

 

Since I got back into O Gauge (circa 2004), I've "mail ordered" a good 6 or so engines and/or sets without testing prior to shipment. All had issues and were returned to the place of purchase except 2, one of which is my best running engine. The other is a conventional engine I have on display these days. 

 

I'm 50/50 on stuff I've ordered and asked to be tested. 

 

I bought, some years ago, from Jim's Train Shop, a MTH V0-1000 switcher - VERY nice engine and Jim tested it for me prior to shipping but arrived with a good bit of issues. Upon cracking open the shell, I could tell this was major. I unfortunately sent it back. It not only sounded great but looked fantastic. 

 

This past spring, I began a search for an MTH Railking Imperial Y6b. Very popular engines, I found one at Eastside Trains. Johnny went out of his way to take care of me. I got it in the set which includes the engine, 4 hoppers and caboose. I mentioned I was friends with one of his customers. I had mentioned I have had issues with stuff from Mail order and could he test it for a good bit of time to make sure all was well. If there were issues, he would call me. He not only fully lubricated it, put a fresh battery in it (all WITHOUT me asking him) but he also test ran it for a half hour with a heavy train. I got it, with a very nice note from him, and it ran beautifully. I was thrilled and still am with it. Top notch service from Eastside Trains. 

 

My dealers and myself are also very lucky to be within an hours drive of MTH's headquarters making life a bit easier. 

And these are the same folks who whine and bawl on this forum about bad quality. 

The issue I have is charging a restocking fee for a defective item to exchange it, just a bad business practice in my mind which willl definitely result in the loss of a customer. This is not a quality complaint. I get it, engines fail. It just doesn't seem right that I should pay several hundred dollars in restocking fees for an item that never worked. Hopefully it will turn out for the best, if not, lesson learned the hard way.

Wow, hopefully that was tongue in cheek.  If not, that's like assuming politicians have your best interest at heart    My luck with MTH over the last two years suggest nothing to that effect.  

 

I had this conversation with my LHS recently, and it's a case-by-case thing.  There are some that absolutely don't want the LHS opening the box at all, and there are some that prefer it.  I fall in to the second camp;  I don't want to bother taking delivery of something that doesn't work - if nothing else it ends up being time (if not money) that I'd rather not spend on a problem not of my making.  I also figure that he knows these things better than I do (certified MTH tech) so if it passes his muster, I'm getting an (essentially) solid product.  To me, there's nothing worse in this hobby than writing a big check  and then taking a box home only to find that it has to go right back to the LHS (or factory) for repairs.    

Usually a hefty restocking fee is charged to keep you from bailing on your order altogether. In my experience ,there are dealers who will exchange the item, for the same one or different as long as its equal or greater value.

 

At any rate, if the restocking fee still applies you'll do far better emailing Lionel for an RA# and sending it to Ohio for repair. Lionel has been turning around repairs in a week or two, you could likely get your locos repaired and returned nearly as fast as you can send them back for an exchange, and they are tested extensively after they are repaired in Ohio.

 

In most cases its not the dealers fault that an item is defective, and as Charlie mention above often its the shipper who gives the loco its "real test".

If a LHS tests your train and it/ has a problem what happens next?Does the LHS pay to ship it back to be fixed or does the Manufacturer cover costs?Either way it would be better than having to cover the shipping yourself.Might as well have it tested first.

Surefire, it doesn't sound like you have even contacted the seller yet. Talking to the seller before posting like this should always happen, the dealer likely will offer an exchange, or refund without restocking fees for defective items.

 

 IMHO, one of the best ways to improve quality control from the manufacturers is for them to be legally bound to cover shipping costs both ways on warranty repairs. It is wrong to expect the consumer to pay the return shipping charges for a product was defective when purchased.

 

Doug

I think it should be the buyers call. If he is cautious and would like the seller to open the box and test it first then it should be done, to avoid potential problems as previously stated. If the seller refuses then it is up to the buyer to decide whether to go forward with the sale. But if the buyer pays for and desires an unopened "new in the box" product, then that is what he should get. I have had a fairly good record of properly operating engines and am in the second group. All engines shouldn't be automatically tested by the seller, regardless of the buyer's desires. For all i know I could be getting a model that was running on the dealers display layout.

My experience with companies who do this do it so they don't have to try to collect shipping charges if it turns out to not be a warranty repair. If the warranty is valid and covers the repair, they refund the shipping charges. I don't know if this is good or bad, just an observation.

Ah, one of the distinct advantages of working with the local dealer whenever possible!

 

Order online and you (and I) take your chances, even though that is sometimes the only way to get a particular item.  I have been very lucky in that regard, and I really do not expect a large-volume mail-order dealer to test every locomotive he sends to me.  One can always ask, but I know that it is not even possible for a dealer to do a test run in many instances.  I also realize that even if he tested it and it performed fine, something could go amiss in the transit from him to me.

My LHS will gladly test a locomotive at the customer request.  Or ask if he wants to test it. 

 

They also test anything going into the display case, nothing worse than taking a loco out of the case for a potential buyer and having it go up in smoke.

 

Rusty

Because far too many retail dealers are businessmen running cash flow operations, and not your do-good uncles.

 

3. They would have to send back the items themselves.

2. Thus tying up their own inventory/capital investments

1. Finally why should they when they are still turning a buck on enough true believers willing to do 2 & 3 by themselves?

A couple of months ago I posted a question here about whether it was reasonable for me to expect Lionel to pay for the shipping charges (twice ... two different problems right away) on a brand new engine that was defective out of the box.  I had purchased the engine from a large online dealer.  Some here chastised me for questioning that since I had not bought it from a LHS.  I still don't see how where I buy it from has anything to do with the fact that I should expect that a brand new very expensive item work properly ... and not have to pay a penalty if it doesn't. 

if you have bad locomotives, your

better off dealing direct

with the manufacturer

I beg to differ. If you are lucky to have a nearby MTH tech, (I have 2) then you can not only help support the LHS but maybe save time and $$$. As we've seen in this thread, you are far more likely to have better service from the LHS, quicker repair, and overall "easier" experience. 

nope!

Ive always delt direct with

the manufacturer and had good

results. So I guess its a matter

of personal preference.

Are you a veteran?  if so shipping is FREE both ways to Lionel's service center.  that is what warranty's are for.

I have been 50/50 on mail order big ticket items working 100% out of the box on the first try.  Every time, the various mail order places that I used has gone above and beyond to make it right.  The only loss on my part is the disappointment, and waiting for another one that hopefully works.

 

Recently, I have come to the conclusion based on my friends experiences and my own that for big ticket items, I'm going to only pre-order and buy from my LHS and have them test it in the store when I'm there which is optionally part of their service.  Sure, you pay more, but 100% of the time, I go home with a working item that's been unwrapped and and fully tested.  To me this is worth the extra price. 

 

I can't tell you how many times in the store we discovered some issue where we had to see if we could do a quick fix, or open up another box to get it right sometimes even mixing and matching to get a complete working set.

 

Like Allen said, sometimes we have no choice to mail order, and the price may be very tempting, but you have to also accept the risk and possible aggravation involved if you go that route.

 

So do you feel lucky?  Do you?

 

 

I can throw a rock into the air to see how far it goes before it comes down, do I run tests on it first, nope!

 

I can launch an RC aircraft into the air to see how far it goes before it comes down, do I run a test on it first, you bet!

 

When these model engines were "simple" machines, they didn't do a lot but then there wasn't a lot to go wrong inside them.  Today's model engines have components inside them that weren't even in existence back in the 1940s-1950s.  You can't compare or treat engines of today like you can an engine from last century.

 

To spend $500-$1000 on a model and not test it first to see if it works just boggles my mind

 

If you're buying something only to bring home and "put up" for future sale don't expect anyone to offer you what you think it's worth down the road.

 

If you buy over the internet make sure they test it first and if it needs be, reset to Factory Reset values before shipment.

Still.......the locomotive  can be perfect when it leaves the seller, tested or not, and be defective when you receive it because of the tender handling it receives from some shippers (as noted frequently in the past).

I can see why some would want their dealer to open and test their locomotives prior to shipping.  Me personally though, I want to be the first to open and run my new engines.

Another question would be why would you buy from a shop that wasn't willing to test an engine for you if asked?

 

--Greg

Not really a problem for me.  I never ask them to test the item before sending it to me.  I prefer to do it myself because I trust myself to handle packing/unpacking in a slow and deliberate manner.  I'm not sure all dealers would treat the item with such care, and I know that things can happen in shipping the item on to me.

 

When I purchase something from my local dealer, we most often test-run the item on the store layout before I take it home.

hello guys and gals.........

 

Mr. Mann of Sunset 3rd tested (demo running) my engine while we were there that day to pick it up and at the same time he gave us a small tour along with pen and 2 mugs.  When we were getting ready to leave, he had the engine very carefully packed back in the box and my husband carried to our truck and Mr. Mann carried the Z4000 to our truck too.  We know now the engine was in perfect running condition on the way home (336 mile trip) as that gave us a peace of mind. 

 

the woman who loves the S.F. 5011

Tiffany

This is why I'm happy to live in SE PA, there are a number of good dealers within driving distance of my house. Not to rub it into the members who have to order on line, but every place has it's good living points and plenty of toy train stores is one of ours.