Why Does My CW80 Transformer have 1 Volt for Accessories?

Did you try adjusting the voltage in the CW80 accessory port?

The owners manual, which can be found HERE, has a section on setting the accessory voltage.

IMO, while I'm no fan of the CW80, I find the variable voltage settings the best feature.

Thanks SJC, I did not realize the accessory side of the CW80 was programmable.

I need to check that out for both transformers. I suppose I can use my 1st transformer increase it beyond 10 volts for my switches, and it will be great to get much more than 1 volt out of the second.

Thanks again.

More importantly, your hobby shop did not know that!

Jon

KOOLjock1 posted:

More importantly, your hobby shop did not know that!

Jon

Actually I have found most hobby shops, including Lionel retailers, don't know that about the CW-80.  Remember, most are run buy men, and men generally don't read the manual.

Just remember, the total amperage of the CW-80 is shared by both outputs.

Try the adjustment but don't be surprised if there's something else wrong. It seems very odd that the accessory output would be set to 1V from the factory.

Thanks for your responses. I agree it seems unlikely that the CW80 would be set at 1V at the factory. However, I bought this particular transformer for my grandkids' use, then there is a good possibility unknowingly they did the adjust the voltage, accidentally or for some purpose.

Later today I expect to pickup this CW80 from the hobby shop, a Lionel dealer; a dealer who problem solved and repaired Other brand transformers for my model train club.

l'll know later and post here whether I can adjust this CW80.

sinclair posted:

 Just remember, the total amperage of the CW-80 is shared by both outputs.

This is true... but is also true of just about every other O-gauge transformer that I am aware of.  In fact, the only transformers I am aware of that have independent circuits for accessories, or separate throttles are the post war TW, and the late model ZW-C. (when using more than one powerhouse to power it.)

I do agree about the lack of reading manuals.  I think we are all a little guilty of this.  In the hobby shops, however, I think there is more to it.  I would be absolutely shocked to see a hobby shop recommend NOT replacing a CW-80.  First, there is the long standing, and mostly unwarranted impression folks have that these transformers are junk.  Second, there is nothing to be gained on the bottom line by telling folks that their starter transformer is just fine for running a small layout, and it's design is arbitrarily superior to compeating products.  You can see the general hostility to the CW-80 quite often here on the forum, where it is often suggested that it be filed in the trash even when in perfect working order.  Given all this, it does not surprise me in the least that folks at a hobby shop would know nothing about the operation of this transformer.  

As for the transformers being set to 1 volt, I didn't see a mention of where the transformers were acquired, so there is no way to know if it was a factory setting or one set by a previous user, without more information from the OP.  

JGL

Thank you Icytrains for posting this question, and thank you SJC for posting the manual.  I too bought my CW80 used, and never tried the accessory terminals until this Christmas.  I just thought, I wonder if the seller knew there was no accessory output.  Now I don't remember if the output was zero or just over zero.  I will have to try this on mine to see if it was programmed this way, or if something else causing my problem.

JohnGaltLine posted:

sinclair posted:

 Just remember, the total amperage of the CW-80 is shared by both outputs.

This is true... but is also true of just about every other O-gauge transformer that I am aware of.  In fact, the only transformers I am aware of that have independent circuits for accessories, or separate throttles are the post war TW, and the late model ZW-C. (when using more than one powerhouse to power it.)

I do agree about the lack of reading manuals.  I think we are all a little guilty of this.  In the hobby shops, however, I think there is more to it.  I would be absolutely shocked to see a hobby shop recommend NOT replacing a CW-80.  First, there is the long standing, and mostly unwarranted impression folks have that these transformers are junk.  Second, there is nothing to be gained on the bottom line by telling folks that their starter transformer is just fine for running a small layout, and it's design is arbitrarily superior to compeating products.  You can see the general hostility to the CW-80 quite often here on the forum, where it is often suggested that it be filed in the trash even when in perfect working order.  Given all this, it does not surprise me in the least that folks at a hobby shop would know nothing about the operation of this transformer.  

As for the transformers being set to 1 volt, I didn't see a mention of where the transformers were acquired, so there is no way to know if it was a factory setting or one set by a previous user, without more information from the OP.  

JGL

 

I believe the accessory voltage is factory set at 12 volts.   I agree that the CW80, especially the later models, get a bad rap and are fine for smaller layouts and for running some accessories and supplying fixed voltage to switches or UCS track etc.    I use 2 along with 2 postwar KWs.  

Reasons i go this way:

The KWs were from my dad and what I used all through my childhood...so nostalgic to me but I supposed if i had a ZW growing up I would have gone with one of those.

I also  wanted to add new modern transformers with self contained and more consistent whistle & bell control and for more modern equipment and these were dirt cheap NIB versus a ZW-L (+600) or GW-180 ($240+).  I would replace my CWs with the GW to have double the amps in a single unit but not at that price.  I think I payed like 40 bucks a piece for the CWs NIB. For me I wanted to stick with Lionel...the black and orange, Lionel logo and looks for consistency and again nostalgia were important to me.

I have 4 of them and they all have been great little power houses.  Due to it's all in one form factor and the way it handles track voltage for direction button pushes, I prefer it over the MTH Z-1000, and in some cases even my ZW-C.

sounds like it might be parasitic voltage,which can be caused by a open winding or bad ground

You also need to put a small load on the terminals when reading the voltage. A train light bulb, a low resistor due to the circuitry inside.

They are a nice transformer. If the product has a bad start, it never lives it down.

Negative report on adjusting the voltage in the CW80's accessory port, following the owners manual I was not able to increase the voltage. When I released the buttons at the desired voltage, light keeps flashing and does not become a solid green. Though it remains flashing I return the handle to zero.  I used this technique on the CW80 that only has 1VAC, and the CW80 that has 10VAC on the accessory posts. In both cases the green light keeps flashing until I turn off the power strip that each of my CW80s receive 120 VAC.

Both my "bad" CW80's (bought used) accessory remains at 1VAC, and my "good" CW80's (bought new Dec 2013) accessory remains ar 10VAC.

Hmmm, maybe Fastman is right. Could it be a parasitic voltage, caused by a open winding or bad ground? Where do I start to check for that?

Just in case, here's the video-start at 2:15  

Carl, The video helped, thanks. I was able to increase the voltage in my "good" CW-80 to 14VAC. The Lionel's Owners Manual differs from the video in two ways.

• When the 3 buttons were release in the video I can see the green light continues to flash. Specifically, the Manual's Step 4 states at desired voltage release the buttons is wrong: "The accessory turns off, and the solid green light indicates that you have set the accessory voltage."
• At the end of Step 5 Lionel's statement is incomplete: "At this point, increasing the throttle again will control track power." If they would have added that there needs to have a load on the track (specifically the video shows an Engine that was cycled to move forward is ready). This is similar to your statement. I suppose having that load ready on the track side made a difference, and set the new desired 14 VAC that I now use to power my switches.

However, my "bad" CW-80 when I went through the same steps as the video, I still can't increase the VAC output on the accessory side. Still has an output of 1VAC.

Does any one have any other suggestions?

At my request the hobby shop left the case open. 

• I have not pulled the tape off the wire windings yet to see if there are any obvious wires broken, should I?
• At this time, if there are no other tests I can do, I can unsolder the wires to/from the printed circuit board to make it ready to mail off for testing and possibly repair. 

Icy,

Lionel doesn't repair these. This is the one that I wanted the date code from.

Three options:

1. There was a thread where someone repaired one. The board layout is different that one would think. It may just be a small component, but the process to identify it and test needs to be guided by someone like gunrunnerjohn.
2. Call Lionel and tell them the problem. Sometimes they have you cut cord off, ship it to them and they send a replacement.
3. Leave it as it is and use it for track power only.

I'll try to search the forum and find the repair thread.

And FWIW, the CW80 struggles with a postwar FM Trainmaster.  Add three postwar 18" aluminum passenger cars, two lights a piece and the green light on the transformer starts blinking. 

Old version description and schematic with locations to take readings with a meter  What's the date code?

Old version good Lionel service experience

RideTheRails posted:

And FWIW, the CW80 struggles with a postwar FM Trainmaster.  Add three postwar 18" aluminum passenger cars, two lights a piece and the green light on the transformer starts blinking. 

It should with dual pul-mors and worm drives. It probably wants 4 amps for the engine. It's a 5 amp transformer.

Icy just wants the acc terminals to output voltage.

So, what's your point?

Moonman posted:

RideTheRails posted:

And FWIW, the CW80 struggles with a postwar FM Trainmaster.  Add three postwar 18" aluminum passenger cars, two lights a piece and the green light on the transformer starts blinking. 

It should with dual pul-mors and worm drives. It probably wants 4 amps for the engine. It's a 5 amp transformer.

Icy just wants the acc terminals to output voltage.

So, what's your point?

The CW80 is 80 watts.  The most common Postwar 'better' transformer is the 1033, at 90 watts.  It came with better single motor sets.  The LW at 125 watts is the lowest wattage transformer recommended for dual motor engines, like the FM.

So yes, the CW80 green light would blink powering the FM at decent speeds.

Johnsgg1 posted:

The CW80 is 80 watts.  The most common Postwar 'better' transformer is the 1033, at 90 watts.  It came with better single motor sets.  The LW at 125 watts is the lowest wattage transformer recommended for dual motor engines, like the FM.

 

So yes, the CW80 green light would blink powering the FM at decent speeds.

Also worth noting that Post-war transformers are rated on the input side where as modern transformers such as the CW-80 are rated on the output side.  I don't know if there is any set in stone efficiency rating on transformers but I've heard anywhere from 70% to 90%.  Lets just assume the middle of that at 80% efficiency.  That means a Post war transformer would have to be rated at 100 watts to supply the same amount of power as the CW-80.  

In any case, 5 amps (4.5 actually at full voltage) of output is plenty for any modern locomotives.  Dual motored pul-mores with a string of lighted cars behind it?  That is something else, and likely to put a strain on pretty much any power source.  That 125 watt LW is putting out less than an amp more current that the CW-80.   

JGL

Carl, There is no obvious date code on my "bad" CW80; however, on the bottom right of its label is G0306. That is the only difference between its label & the label on my "good" CW80. The "good" CW80 has QC50-OK at that bottom right location. Apparently indicating who the quality control person was that approved the "good" CW80. 

Another difference, the "good" CW80 has G120811 stamped/branded into the plastic bottom near the label. I assume that is the date code; likely an indication of the year month & day the "good" was manufactured or QC'ed. There is not a similar stamp on the "bad" CW80. 

Recap for Others: To clarify for OGR members, who might not start reading the Post from the beginning. Both of my CW80 transformers are equal in supplying excellent track power for running my PW Lionel locomotives, as well as the my 4 grandkids' modern Lionel locomotives, I purchased the grandkids RTR sets over the past two years, though they were likely older stock. The only problem with my "bad" CW80 is the accessory output is only 1VAC and does not adjust so I can use it for accessories.

ICYTRAINS,

    Circle 7 file the CW-80 upgrade with a more powerful/ better made transformer and eliminate your power problems.  If you decide to keep the CW-80, use it for your Bumper Street Cars, even then keep a close eye on it, especially if it is the older version.  

PCRR/Dave