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They don't care?
Well Lionel IS beginning to offer Kadee mounting pads/shims on some of their latest freight cars, but nothing with their high-end locomotive models,,,,,,,,yet.
The Lionel Track system is FasTrak. So they are making sure that the Locomotives can run on FasTrak first.
Andrew
What I find interesting about 3RS fanatics is we scream for accuracy, Kadees, and blah blah but want to run our trains on grossly out of scale 3R track!
Somehow, we overlook that, but if a color hue is off, whistle sounds incorrect, or something of this nature, the sky has fallen!
Well, each their own. I'm guilty myself.
One thing I'd love to see on 3RS steam-interchangeable scale wheel flanges for the pilot truck. Ship them in the box with the locomotive-owners can install if they wish, based on track they use.
Pizza cutter stockers:
Scale-a big difference:
In the meantime, I'll keep NWSL in business!
Well, if you want 2R, sell the Lionel stuff and buy 2R locomotives. You'll be money ahead in the long run...
If you don't have a lot, you could convert-Oh, I just opened that can of worms...
Despite 3RS contrary popular opinion, 2R stuff is out there and available-you just have to look.
With the price 3RS die-cast is approaching, you're in 2R brass territory for many items-not all though.
Scott Mann told me he did not believe the 3 rail scale market to be more than around 5% of the market.
If Lionel believes the same then us 3rail scale buffs are out of luck regarding Lionel.
For what Lionel charges, a scale correct valve gear, fixed pilot option with correct height over the rail, not a foot or two and included scale wheel option is the only way I would buy their product.
I'm with Aaron on the tinplate rail, but not everyone is going to go as far as I have converting Atlas 148 to 3 rail.
However, my hats off to Lionel for the quality of their TMCC operating system. I use it and it is dead nuts reliable.
I will go to RC control with battery power for all my locos and switch to 2 rails in the future. That is why I've converted half the layout to 148 with a n scale third rail and am converting the rest, the third rail will come up easily.
Well, if you want 2R, sell the Lionel stuff and buy 2R locomotives. You'll be money ahead in the long run...
If you don't have a lot, you could convert-Oh, I just opened that can of worms...
Despite 3RS contrary popular opinion, 2R stuff is out there and available-you just have to look.
With the price 3RS die-cast is approaching, you're in 2R brass territory for many items-not all though.
Yeah, you could convert your locomotives to 2 rail but it is a very expensive proposition. TMCC/Legacy doesn't care how many rails are on the track. It works on either 2R or 3R. Atlas proved that.
I have two Lionel steam locomotives that I converted to 2R many years ago when the price wasn't as high or maybe my hobby budget was bigger. I was hoping that someone would come up with a DCC decoder that connected to Railsounds because I would really love to keep the Lionel sounds but it never happened so I have given up waiting for that and will install MTH's PS3 in the Lionel locomotives. I couldn't imagine having a layout that had no Lionel locomotives and cars whatsoever.
Dakota H, I have often dreamed of the same thing as you. Lionel making 2R/3RS equipment. Rolling stock with Kadee coupler pads (I know they now offer a small percentage with the coupler pads). Locomotives that will run on DCC like some of their S scale line does. Diesels with full length hand rails and fixed pilots. Scale flanges on steam and diesel engines, etc. Maybe it is all for the best though because if they did produce those products I don't think I could resist buying them.
This is a perennial question. My impression is that a well-run corporation will do what is best for shareholders, not what is best for customers. There is room for someone like Mike Wolf to enter the field with a more customer- oriented, less profit-driven philosophy.
Such a corporation could produce FastTrack switches and scale 3-rail products. It is a great way to make a small fortune. Be aware, though, that often these kinds of endeavors start with a very large investment.
We 2-railers have small suppliers like that - most do not last long, but produce spectacular products. Check out the MMW threads on the 2-rail forum.
"They don't care?"
Well, they are not social workers 
, they are in business to make money AND satisfy customers. A little perspective goes a long way. 3RS is a tiny portion of what is a tiny market. Even popular high end 3 rail Lionel locos sell perhaps 1,000 or somewhat more units. That's a very, very small run to spread the overhead for tooling over. Whereas Lionel's Thomas the Tank or Polar Express has probably been made in the 100,000s over a period of years. That pretty much explains everything about their production and marketing strategies, at least to me.
The addition of Kadee mounts to the rolling stock is a pretty good start, and the kinematic pilots that are coming with the new tooling diesels gives you basically the best of both worlds. If you noticed in the new catalog, it also states the kinematic pilot locos will have kadee mounts. I cant imagine its much of a leap from there to disable the kinematic mechanism and fix the pilot from there.
What more than that do you want? They seem to be bridging the gap between 3 rail compromise and scale fairly well at the moment.
I think Lionel is doing a lot to make their rolling stock more usable for the 3RS and 2R markets.
It would be nice if their premium locos were as easy to convert to 2rail as the MTH ones are.
AS for the OP's actual question, i also believe they see the 3RS market as too small to bother - plus MTH is already in there, so there is less market to be captured.
Two thoughts come to mind. Profit Margin and Volume.
The bulk of Lionel's business is from the non-scale side of the house. That should cover my two thoughts.
I'm with Aaron on the tinplate rail, but not everyone is going to go as far as I have converting Atlas 148 to 3 rail.
However, my hats off to Lionel for the quality of their TMCC operating system. I use it and it is dead nuts reliable.
I will go to RC control with battery power for all my locos and switch to 2 rails in the future. That is why I've converted half the layout to 148 with a n scale third rail and am converting the rest, the third rail will come up easily.
If you guys are converting two rail track to three rail why not go outside third rail? The track would look better in my opinion than inside third rail. RC is a good option also.
The addition of Kadee mounts to the rolling stock is a pretty good start, and the kinematic pilots that are coming with the new tooling diesels gives you basically the best of both worlds. If you noticed in the new catalog, it also states the kinematic pilot locos will have kadee mounts. I cant imagine its much of a leap from there to disable the kinematic mechanism and fix the pilot from there.
What more than that do you want? They seem to be bridging the gap between 3 rail compromise and scale fairly well at the moment.
I have to say that I agree about Lionel. They have made some recent improvements that help us all. Nicely detailed cars that are now easier to convert to KD couplers. I am buying them. Not as fast as I want because my market is flooded with options!
I'm pretty sure that the newest Lionel Legacy diesel engines have trucks with removable axles?
I've been into 3RS for the better part of 17 years- in that time I've been making the transition into 2- rail, converting my 3-rail rolling stock to 2-rail, buying 2 rail track and switches, and upgrading some of my 3-rail diesels with 2-rail features. I'm also starting to buy MTH diesels with fixed pilots and scale wheels- yeah, that means running DCS too, but it's well worth it.
I also have 25+ 3-rail diesels w/ TMCC, so I'm looking for solutions to 2-rail them without loosing the AC power or the TMCC. The Atlas diesels can be converted to 2-rail TMCC and converted to fixed pilots, but the Lionel units will take more work- the deeper wheel flanges will have to be replaced with NWSL wheelsets, and some kitbashing to fix the pilots.
My solution to powering AC diesels on 2 rail track is with a stud rail, similar to Marklin's AC HO track. Yes, it requires some mods to the center rollers to make it work, but the studs blend in well with ballasted track and it has been proven.
All of this seems to be alot of work, but to sell off 20+ 3-rail diesels and 300+ pieces of rolling stock just to buy their 2-rail equivalents would probably just take me out of the hobby. I like what I have, and for me to make what I have work with scale track is a challenge, not a problem. My permanent layout will have 2-rail studrail, when it gets built. And if I feel like running some 3-rail trains, I have plenty of Fastrack to set up on the carpet.
Geno
Because it is not the business they are in. They are not in the model railroading business they are in the toy train business. They make what they believe Lionel O Gauge train enthusiasts want.
I think I agree with Mr. Dunn. Surely nobody thinks Lionel is aiming at the O Scale market. Some of their models are close to scale, but all of them - All of them - are aimed at the 3- rail market.
Never said mean't for children. Those are your words. IMO Lionel is doing more to interest the next generation in model trains than anyone else in the business but that is not their primary focus. That would be like saying McDonalds primary business is happy meals. But people who watch toy trains go around in circles for hours enjoying all the bells and whistles, or people who specifically collect Lionel? Yes, that is their primary focus. Putting Kadee pads on a new design for a plastic part is basically free to them that does not detract from the more traditional customer base and if it increases sales more power to them.
This is not a secret, ask Lionel folks at York or any other show they participate in and they'll talk to you about it. The only reason this thread exists is because they are doing a good job of scaling their new stuff without scaring or offending the traditionalists too much. Who are, OBTW, a very vocal bunch. 10 years ago the thought of Lionel making full scale auto racks or 86' box cars or passenger cars would have been a sacrilege that would have had the traditionalists vocally up in arms about turning against them. They did! I remember the threads.
If Lionel jumped into the 3RS market it would no doubt equate to high consumer retail prices for such cars coupled with very minimum profit for the producer. Lionel does well selling in the big box stores and I don't see a market for 3RS there.
The 86' Auto parts boxcar and the 89' scale Autorack are sure indications Lionel sees the 3RS market and knows we spend alot of money on engines and rolling stock. This is also why they made such an effort to make the SD-70ACe look as realistic as possible within the limits of hirail wheels and truck-mounted pilots. The ES44ac and AC6000 are also nicely done, but of course don't measure up the MTH premier diesels with scale wheels and fixed couplers.
Lionel has their entry-level Ready to Run line, but their Vision Line is what would be producing realistic models- since they know most of their customers buying Vision line products are running 3-rail track, they don't seem to be too concerned about scale wheels and fixed pilots on those models. But admittedly it would show "vision" if they made those offerings easy to convert to 2-rail like MTH.
Geno
In answer to the original poster question. I think they are doing much more for the O scale hi-rail market than ever before.If you go back to 1999 when Lionel offered it's first really serious O scale detailed steam locomotive (the Allegheny) since 1937's 700E, there's been gradually more and more offerings that appeal to us while still offering the traditional trains. Pull out and look at the recent Lionel signature catalog offerings and nearly the first half are full of 3 rail scale offerings.
Dakota I am right there with you....
The Legacy operating system and all its features in addition to the play value of the Vision Line products brought me into this hobby. Now I am way too deep into 3 rail to convert to 2 rail and like you I just can not give up Legacy or Vision Line for greater fidelity to the prototype anyway. So, I convert to kadees, fixed my own pilots and live with the oversized flanges, I keep hoping that Lionel continues its incremental progress into more 3 Rail-scale-ish products. Recent products indicate that they are that path. Time will tell. All in all it is a pretty cool time to play with trains!
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