Why hardware stores as a Lionel retailer?

@Jim Brenner posted:

This is more of a comment than a question.

While reading several of the current and past posts about where people purchased their trains, it struck me that many folks (including me) bought their trains at a hardware store. I can understand department stores and hobby shops selling trains, but not hardware stores.

This brings me back, I spent my youth in Madison Hardware with Carl and Lou. I spent many great days drooling over the newest Lionel offerings. I would like to tell you what happened one Sat at “the store”. I was about 15 years old and was buying a Pennsylvania GG1 when this man walked in, and Carl called me so he could introduce me to some guy called “frank Sinatra”. Well anyway we talked trains for hours, and then Mr. Sinatra asked if I would like to see his train set. Lou already had my dad on the phone and Mr. Sinatra told him he would bring me home. Off to NJ and “wow” while he listened to me about about my trains…..he had it all.  

There is a ACE Hardware near me that still does model railroad stuff, but they are famous for RC Cars & Airplanes.  They used to have a store layout. We started going there in the sixties.

Gary

Up until 1959 my family resided in the Wissinoming section of northeast Philadelphia and there were hobby shops aplenty on Torresdale Avenue and Frankford Avenue.  I was only 11 at the time and can't recall their names.  In mid 1959 we moved to Martinsburg, West Virginia and there was not a hobby shop to be found.  However at Christmas time the Auto parts stores in town, Western Auto and Joe the Motorist's friend, had ample stocks of Lionel and Marx trains.  I don't recall seeing any American Flyer though.  

OKHiker, I live on  the edge of Bridesburg

Until big-box chain stores started displacing them, small hardware stores were a great place to go for holiday season favorites. Ace Hardware was still a great source for Lemax ceramic village buildings into the 21st century (but no longer).

A local Ace Hardware continued to set up an American Flyer train layout in its front window into the 1990s. But the store, a downtown staple, was forced to close more than a decade ago.

In the 50s and 60s in many small rural towns, the local hardware store sold most anything the people needed that the grocery store did not carry.  Greens Hardware sold appliances, lawn mowers, TV ( they even had a radio/TV tube tester and sold tubes, you name it.  Greens did not sell Lionel trains as I lived there in the later 50s and trains were not a big deal in rural Texas as in eastern and mid west cities and towns.  Hardware stores chains were like this in the south and southwest with one being Oklahoma Tire and Supply.

Even larger towns, with a several thousand residents had Sears and Roebuck catalog stores, that you could phone in and order for Lionel trains and pick them up several days later.  Sears even had some trains made with their trade mark, "Allstate" on them, I have a Marx coal tender with that marking.

Earlier in the early 1950s, my Dad bought some Marx switches he used on our childhood Christmas layout, at a 5 and 10 cent, or Dime store on a busy street in the South Saint Louis suburbs.  They carried Marx and not Lionel as Marx was considered lower cost train gear.

Charlie

@Mark Boyce posted:

My local hobby shop is CT McCormick Hardware in Zelienople, Pennsylvania.

CT McCormick (Jeff) is kind of my go-to local train store these days since Mercer Junction closed. The drive to CT McCormick is a bit long, but Jeff is a great guy and it's always fun to visit there. I believe I have a couple of locomotives on preorder with him at the present time.

Back when I was growing up in the 1950s, virtually every hardware store in and around Youngstown, Ohio, had Lionel, American Flyer, and sometimes even Marx trains (although you could easily find Marx at nearly every Five-and-Dime store). My last two years in high school, I sold Lionel and Flyer in the toy dept. of a major downtown department store during the Christmas season.

Back in the day, "Joe The Motorist Friend" stores around the Harrisburg area had large toy train displays. They brought in new customers and exposed them to the other products carried, auto/appliance/hardware. Santa was also there!

power mower......powered train

better than motorized shoes.

@Arthur P. Bloom posted:

Guys went to hardware stores. They took their sons with them. The sons asked their dads for trains.

Yes. Also, appliance stores sold and serviced them; the last Lionel service station in Mobile that I knew of was an appliance dealer. Mechanically, a Lionel Pre- and Post-War locomotive had a lot in common with other "household appliances"....

Also, tire stores would sell them seasonally. Most anywhere The Boys (grown and not) shopped, the trains would show up. Now, Mom got into the act by way of the department stores. We were doomed.

I was more surprised to see pharmacies selling Lionel Trains over the years. I remember one not too long ago in the Bronx by a hospital (Montifiore, I think) and some others showing in old magazines like the back of Model Railroader, etc.

Maybe if you had headaches from building your dream layout, the aspirin would be handy?

Tom

World Hardware store in Springfield Del Co PA.  They had nominal seasonal presence in the store display window but there was a second floor of trains which you had to ask to see.

In Syracuse there was a hardware store named Noah's Arc, on James Street in Eastwood. There were Lionel Trains in the front window every Christmas. The layout seemed huge, but I was small! (it probably wasn't all that big) There were great bargains following the holiday season. The location subsequently became a mens and boys store named "Charney's" (the family name of the proprietor.) The entire block was demolished a fews ago. Syracuse will always be my home, but I will most likely never again reside there. I don't know what is currently on that "Eastwood" block.

A hardware store would be a great place to sell electric trains. Most people when they go into a hardware store, they are not in a hurry. They enjoy looking at all the items that are for sale. People will visit, They talk about about sports. especially the High School team. They talk about hunting and fishing and going to camp. A good hardware store would have a train layout in the front window all year. I would love to work in a old fashion hardware store and sell trains.

@Allan Miller posted:

CT McCormick (Jeff) is kind of my go-to local train store these days since Mercer Junction closed. The drive to CT McCormick is a bit long, but Jeff is a great guy and it's always fun to visit there. I believe I have a couple of locomotives on preorder with him at the present time.

Back when I was growing up in the 1950s, virtually every hardware store in and around Youngstown, Ohio, had Lionel, American Flyer, and sometimes even Marx trains (although you could easily find Marx at nearly every Five-and-Dime store). My last two years in high school, I sold Lionel and Flyer in the toy dept. of a major downtown department store during the Christmas season.

Allan, yes I miss Dave's store also.  It was about 15 minutes farther from me here in Butler, but worth the trip.

I just picked up a preorder from Jeff a couple weeks ago.  I hope Jeff's son Steve sees the value in the train business to keep it up once Jeff retires.

@jim sutter posted:

A hardware store would be a great place to sell electric trains. Most people when they go into a hardware store, they are not in a hurry. They enjoy looking at all the items that are for sale. People will visit, They talk about about sports. especially the High School team. They talk about hunting and fishing and going to camp. A good hardware store would have a train layout in the front window all year. I would love to work in a old fashion hardware store and sell trains.

Jim, You described CT McCormick's in Zelienople to a Tee!  Of course they have a rival high school team , but there are all kinds of other conversations that come up as you mentioned.

@Transman posted:

OKHiker, I live on  the edge of Bridesburg

@Transman,  We lived on the 6100 block of Walker street between Benner and Deveraux Streets.  My brother, sister and I attended St. Bartholomew's Catholic school. My brother attended Father Judge Catholic High School in 1958-59 at which point we relocated to the Mountain State.  The funny thing is that as popular as model trains were during the 1950s in Philly and everywhere else our household was the only one in our northeast Philly neighborhood I recall having a train layout and ditto in West Virginia.  Go figure.  I have good memories of my childhood on Walker Street but not so good of St. Bart's.  The Sisters of St. Joseph were a pretty hard nosed lot.

@PRR8976 posted:

I was more surprised to see pharmacies selling Lionel Trains over the years. I remember one not too long ago in the Bronx by a hospital (Montifiore, I think) and some others showing in old magazines like the back of Model Railroader, e. It tc.

Maybe if you had headaches from building your dream layout, the aspirin would be handy?

Tom

I think it was Oval Pharmacy, I remember buying a boxcar from them in the early 90's! Its still there on Gun Hill Rd.

My wife is a serious quilter. I think a combination of a quilt shop with a train shop would be a big success. You an capture the old quilt ladies with their old train guy husbands all in one trap.*

*shop.

My wife is starting to quilt too, now that she is retired.  I saw there is a new sewing and quilt shop near CT McCormick’s.  We will have to both go to each of our traps.

@Madockawando posted:

My wife is a serious quilter. I think a combination of a quilt shop with a train shop would be a big success. You an capture the old quilt ladies with their old train guy husbands all in one trap.*

*shop.

As is my wife that is a great idea. She spends money in the quilt store and we guys buy trains win win situation for both of us.
Mark just keep your wife away from Hoovers in Mifflinburg where my wife goes you will be able to afford anymore trains if she visits there. I also have visited McCormicks and yes Jeff is very nice person. When MTH was producing a lot of the Western PA stuff I would order mine from Jeff. Always great service and prices.

@Jim Brenner posted:

This is more of a comment than a question.

While reading several of the current and past posts about where people purchased their trains, it struck me that many folks (including me) bought their trains at a hardware store. I can understand department stores and hobby shops selling trains, but not hardware stores.

Where I grew up back in the 1950s there weren't any hobby shops or toy stores to speak of, only thing we had was Sears/Roebuck and they only put toys out AFTER Thanksgiving and took them down AFTER Christmas!!!  I don't recall even a hardware store carrying them, but that could be because my dad was a carpenter and he only went there for work, or, we were so poor my parents couldn't afford any trains, probably both reasons.

We did have 1 hobby shop in town, but it was mainly plastic models and RC planes, still was like Christmas going in there though and he was open 5 days/wk.  I expect he carried some Lionel too, but I wasn't interested at the time.

Got my first GG1 at TELLY ELECTRICAL SUPPLY in Mount Vernon N.Y....a 2330..still got it...

In my early Teens, (76 years ago) my Dad used to take me to the “Stockton Dry Goods “  Store every Xmas Season.  Located in Stockton, California ( And of course gone now for years)!! They always had a Lionel Layout & Products in their Toy Dept. that time of year! I know for sure that’s where my first two Lionel Train Seta came from!………Days gone bye forever. !!!

The reply about hardware guys being able to fix the trains makes sense; even back in olden times new electric trains needed repairs, albeit they were much simpler to repair back then.

I wonder if it was the marketing genius of JLC who first thought to merchandise his trains in hardware stores? That would make a great article, along with a fast-forward to present day repair situation.

@Jim Brenner posted:

Why hardware stores as a Lionel retailer?

The old argument that came into play with Madison Hardware was that receipts from a hardware store were assumed by spouses finding them that they were $$ for some home improvement or repair, and not for toys, coming out of the household budget.

OK Hiker

We take Walker off of Harbison  when we go to Haegels Bakery on Erdrick,

Growing up in Hoboken, NJ, we had Strauss Auto, which sold Lionel most of the year, and bicycles, too! We also had a small electrical store further downtown that always sold and repaired Lionel Trains. I remember buying a DL&W work caboose there.

I forgot to mention one other Lionel Service Station / Sales location close by , and that was the one located in New Boston Ohio ( city located beside Portsmouth , Ohio ) about 30 miles south west of where I live .

It was located in a hardware store that may have had a name that mentioned it's hardware affiliation , but all I ever knew it as from the early 1970's until it relocation to the " Bony-Fiddle" area of downtown Portsmouth as "Toytown". The Bony-Fiddle area of Portsmouth  by the way , was the most southern port of the Erie Canal that I know of.

The same family owned and operated both locations of "Toytown" until just the last few years when the son of the original owner closed it's doors for good .

The original New Boston store was probably started in the 1930-40's . The building was what you visioned as something from that era as it was a large two story brick building with a large front glass display area across the entire front of the store , that when you walked in you could smell and hear the stained floors underneath your feet as you walked towards the large set of stairs located in the middle of the floor up to the toy and train department .

They always had a large O scale layout in a room surrounded by large windows upstairs .

My late Dad made sure we always made the trip to " Toytown" before Christmas to see all the new offerings from Lionel . Sure miss that old building and  those memorable trips with may Dad to New Boston .

Didn't Al Rudman (Sidetrack Hobbies) start out as a hardware store owner? I think one iteration of his train store was in the old hardware space?

Crouse's True Valve Hardware in North Lima, Ohio is where it all started for me back in 1978, still operating to this day!! Like mentioned above C.T. McCormick Hardware in Zelienople, Pa is another very good source for trains. Also, very near me is a Hardware store called Andrew's Shopping Center, this is a hardware/Lionel/MTH store. They are located in Howland, Ohio the store has an "old town feel to it" used to have a soda fountain in it way back in the day.

@PRR8976 posted:

I was more surprised to see pharmacies selling Lionel Trains over the years. I remember one not too long ago in the Bronx by a hospital (Montifiore, I think) and some others showing in old magazines like the back of Model Railroader, etc.

Maybe if you had headaches from building your dream layout, the aspirin would be handy?

Tom

Tom....one of them was OVAL pharmacy on GUN HILL RD...later Stanley went to SHOP-RITE in Mount Vernon on Sanford blvd......cheers...joe

My neighborhood service station was a store that sold household goods, like furniture ect. He had a good inventory of Lionel and I went there often. The last hardware train store I recall was in Toledo, he had a large K-line inventory.

About 10 years ago as assistant manager of a small Ace Hardware in Middleburg, Fl.  I tried to bring back the old feeling of trains in a hardware store.  I was able to set up a layout in the front windows.  It was L shape giving exposure on two sides.  It was on two levels and the upper level I made a shoot to dump candy canes to the visiting children.  I gave away over 500 candy canes the Christmas season.     I was able to get a few new sets on consignment from Hobby World, about 20 miles away, to sell.  All track, trains and etc.  were from my own personal collection.

If you look closely, you can see the candy shoot made of Plexiglas with the opening outlined in red.

Looking from outside.

Doug

@johnstrains posted:

Didn't Al Rudman (Sidetrack Hobbies) start out as a hardware store owner? I think one iteration of his train store was in the old hardware space?

The oldest receipt I have from there, dated 10/15/04, has "TRUE VALUE HARDWARE/SIDETRACK HOBBIES" across the top.

@Transman posted:

OK Hiker

We take Walker off of Harbison  when we go to Haegels Bakery on Erdrick,

@Transman, Thanks for the photos of my old Walker Street neighborhood.  On the satellite shot I can easily pick out my old homestead at 6139 Walker because it is 3 buildings down from the garage parking lot near the upper right portion of the photo.  The street level shot doesn't shown my old home because its out of view beyond the arrow shown at the bottom of the photo.  The last time I went by there about 4 or 5 years ago 6139 Walker was empty and had bank foreclosure notices posted on the front door.  Kind of sad because my brother, sister and I had some great adventures in that house and the neighborhood.   I remember quite distinctly my buddies and I traveling down to the railroad tracks where we were all forbidden to go and watching the sleek fast moving Pennsy GG-1s as they hurtled their way down the Pennsy racetrack to and from 30th street station.  We all had to be very careful down there because the GG-1s were getting their power through their pantographs from the overhead wires and you couldn't hear them coming until they were literally right on top of you.   Unfortunately,  one of my 5th grade St. Bart's classmates was struck and killed by a speeding GG-1 right at the spot where  we would watch them.    St. Bart's school I understand has been torn down and no longer exists.  The beautiful St. Bartholomew's Catholic church which was constructed in 1956 still stands but it's magnificent interior I understand has been substantially modified.  In any event, thanks for the trip down memory lane.

@jjames9641 posted:

Crouse's True Valve Hardware in North Lima, Ohio is where it all started for me back in 1978, still operating to this day!! Like mentioned above C.T. McCormick Hardware in Zelienople, Pa is another very good source for trains. Also, very near me is a Hardware store called Andrew's Shopping Center, this is a hardware/Lionel/MTH store. They are located in Howland, Ohio the store has an "old town feel to it" used to have a soda fountain in it way back in the day.

I've been to Andrew's, Jeff.  You are right, it certainly has an old town feel.

In Tarentum PA was a hardware store that was the "Lionel Capitol" in the area - Stockdale's Hardware. The owner was also politically strong in that when PennDot (state transportation department) was planning a new bridge over the Allegheny River, the 'owner' was able to get the plans changed so that his store was NOT bypassed by the new road leading to the new bridge. It left the area with an awkward and troublesome intersection that is still a mess - and the 'store' is now the site of a gas station after Stockdale's Hardware closed.

I'm told that the 'going-out-of-business' sale at the hardware store featured a gold-mine of vintage Lionel stuff - and like the store itself - now long gone.

OK Hiker

Is this better?

@BMiller posted:

In Tarentum PA was a hardware store that was the "Lionel Capitol" in the area - Stockdale's Hardware. The owner was also politically strong in that when PennDot (state transportation department) was planning a new bridge over the Allegheny River, the 'owner' was able to get the plans changed so that his store was NOT bypassed by the new road leading to the new bridge. It left the area with an awkward and troublesome intersection that is still a mess - and the 'store' is now the site of a gas station after Stockdale's Hardware closed.

I'm told that the 'going-out-of-business' sale at the hardware store featured a gold-mine of vintage Lionel stuff - and like the store itself - now long gone.

I know the awkward intersection on the Tarentum side of the bridge, and often wondered why it couldn’t have been done differently.  Now I know.  Living in Butler County, I never knew of Stockdale’s Hardware.  Thank you for the information!