This is more of a comment than a question.
While reading several of the current and past posts about where people purchased their trains, it struck me that many folks (including me) bought their trains at a hardware store. I can understand department stores and hobby shops selling trains, but not hardware stores.
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Electrical goods. Electricity was a mystery, and the retail world was not divided into the same categories we are used to. Moreover, electrical good wholesalers handled several manufacturers' lines. Many early toy train catalogs are parts of or extensions of catalogs of various electrical appliances. Toy trains had a great deal more in common with home appliances than just about any other retail line. Of the various types of retailers, hardware stores covered those lines of goods.
There's one hardware store that's roughly 50 minutes from where I live that is also a fairly big train dealer as well. I'm thinking these guys like the hobby so much that they are willing to combine the sales of trains with tools and building supplies.
My first Lionel train set was purchased from Couves Radio in Edmonton, Alberta in 1947. They were the authorized Lionel Dealer back then.
I sure wish I had a Menards near me.......
Extra revenue at Christmas time, plus to help draw folks in. There was a radio-tv store in my neighborhood growing up that also sold Lionel trains at Christmas. That's where I usually got my catalogs from.
Heck, back in the day my 2343 Santa Fe F3's came from a furniture store...
Rusty
As I said, my dad bought my trains at AK Hardware store on Chartiers Ave. in McKees Rocks, PA. He let me come in some times, but I was such a pest about buying more Lionel stuff. Honestly, I didn't even see any hardware in the store. When I came in I headed straight to the corner where the Lionel stuff was.
We bought stuff from there up until '63 or so. When I started up again in the mid-80s in Houston, it was just easier to buy from 1-800 stores.
I remember seeing AK Hardware still kicking in the 90s or so. I wondered if they had any good Lionel stuff stashed in the back. But I haven't been past that place in over 20 years.
A display that a coworker and I put together for the annual holiday event for the museum we work at this past year. It's based on a photograph taken in 1921 that depicts an electric appliance shop's Christmas window display, including Lionel trains. Widespread use of electricity was really just starting to take off in those days in the home life, so it sort of made sense to include electrically operated toys in that sort of store during the Christmas season.
I'm guessing they also banked on the fact that dads were frequent visitors to hardware/electrical shops and might be inclined to buy themselves... err, I mean the kids... a train set for Christmas.
Lionel favored having hardware stores selling their electric trains since the store personnel would be well-versed in things electric and mechanical and would be able to explain and/or problem-solve customer questions and issues. Along similar lines, back in the day, MPC would have people manning their phones on Christmas Day to trouble-shoot customer inquiries since they felt and realized that the worst thing that could happen would be a child receiving a train set and not being able to get it to run.
Guys went to hardware stores. They took their sons with them. The sons asked their dads for trains.
@Bob Paris posted:Lionel favored having hardware stores selling their electric trains since the store personnel would be well-versed in things electric and mechanical and would be able to explain and/or problem-solve customer questions and issues. Along similar lines, back in the day, MPC would have people manning their phones on Christmas Day to trouble-shoot customer inquiries since they felt and realized that the worst thing that could happen would be a child receiving a train set and not being able to get it to run.
I did not know of this factoid about the Christmas Day MPC customer service line. There are many reasons that sales increased during this MPC time despite the heavy use of some and certain plastic components. That is simply good business sense. I have answered customer calls on Christmas Day. Why wouldn’t Lionel?
Here in Nashville the hardware stores sold a lot of trains and would have wood for layouts including plyboard and legs. They also had wire for setting up a layout. The sleds and other winter supplies were available as well. Good combination that lasted many years.
Hardware stores and trains simply went together at Christmas time. MB Kline in Baltimore started out as a hardware store.
My local hobby shop is CT McCormick Hardware in Zelienople, Pennsylvania. Jeff McCormick told me his dad started selling Lionel trains long ago and turned the business over to him. Jeff told me after seeing the first setup of Mike's Train House at York, he became one of the first authorized retailers for MTH Trains. As said above, it is handy to go in and buy hardware, electrical supplies, and look over the trains. CT McCormick Hardware (CTTrains) runs an advertisement in OGR Magazine but is not an OGR Forum sponsor.
I lived in a loft in NYC @107 West 26th St. My Hardware store was @ 105 East 23rd St.
@Dennis-LaRock posted:I lived in a loft in NYC @107 West 26th St. My Hardware store was @ 105 East 23rd St.
I even have the T-shirt. 
@Dennis-LaRock posted:I lived in a loft in NYC @107 West 26th St. My Hardware store was @ 105 East 23rd St.
Lost bucket list destination. My Angela Trotta Thomas print of this special and so iconic store will need to sadly suffice. All of your recollections just add to this mystique for me. Thank you.
Our small town had hardware/automotive stores like Otasco and Western Auto, and they sold a large variety of items... including trains. I don't specifically remember Lionel at those stores, but they certainly had Marx trains. They were the closest thing our town had to a department store until Wal-Mart came along. Other stores in town were more specialized, such as clothing or shoes. The local farmer's co-op had a variety of items, but I don't remember them selling trains.
@WRW posted:Lost bucket list destination. My Angela Trotta Thomas print of this special and so iconic store will need to sadly suffice. All of your recollections just add to this mystique for me. Thank you.
I walked one block east on 26th street to Madison Square Park. The building at the north side of the park was the NY Toy Center Building. Then proceeded south through the park (NW corner to SE corner) cross 23rd street... BOOM! 4-5 minute walk to Madison Hardware. I remember taking the 2046 (purchased the year I was born for my older brothers) to Madison around 77-78 for repairs... and, I kinda-never-left. I bought the first copy of CTT magazine there around 84-85 (Kughn was on the cover). It sucked when around 5 or 6 semi's pulled up a few years later and Kughn hauled everything off.
@gunrunnerjohn posted:I even have the T-shirt.
Did you ever see Joshua Lionel Cowan himself?
I always thought the hardware stores used the trains in the winter to balance out summertime items like lawnmowers, garden items and maybe even bicycles.
Similar to what Walmart and menards do switching out garden item floorspace for Xmas and trains.
Some auto parts stores also sold trains back in the day. In the town where I grew up, we had a retailer called R&S Auto. Before I was born, my Dad went there a day or 2 after Christmas and bought a brand new Lionel 1862 General set for $11.00. He told that story probably hundreds of times when he had visitors to his train room.
@BlueComet400 posted:Some auto parts stores also sold trains back in the day. In the town where I grew up, we had a retailer called R&S Auto. Before I was born, my Dad went there a day or 2 after Christmas and bought a brand new Lionel 1862 General set for $11.00. He told that story probably hundreds of times when he had visitors to his train room.
Sounds like my kind of store, haha!
And then we have Nicholas Smith (PHL) which was acquired by Chris Gans of K&G Speed Shop in Havertown, PA. I used to buy STP and Hurst decals and patches from Chris as a little guy at his speed shop on Darby Road. Years later I have purchased LGB (in PA and from TX), STD, and O from Chris in Broomall, PA. Great place. Nice people. Shout out to Joe Jr. 😎
@Dennis-LaRock posted:I lived in a loft in NYC @107 West 26th St. My Hardware store was @ 105 East 23rd St.
I visited Madison Hardware many times from the 70’s until they closed and the only hardware I ever remember seeing (non-train related) was the key making station!!! There was a real hardware store on 23rd, on the opposite side of the street, about a block East… past the old main building of Baruch (three guesses when I went to college 
). Did Madison ever really carry hardware???
@WRW posted:Lost bucket list destination. My Angela Trotta Thomas print of this special and so iconic store will need to sadly suffice. All of your recollections just add to this mystique for me. Thank you.
Willard;
I have the same Angela Trotta Thomas print (actually I have a second one still in the mailing tube somewhere). When I bought them, I called to place my order and Angela answered the phone. I told her that the only quibble I had with her interpretation was that the view of the shelves you can see through the door never looked that neat 
In many ways, it was a magical place.
I also noticed this. My first Lionel/MTH shops were actually hobby shops though. It is only in recent years that my dealer of choice is actually a hardware store as well. It's kind of convenient to be honest. I just buy these screws or that tap while I'm train shopping. It's two of my favorite things to shop for.
@Apples55 posted:Did Madison ever really carry hardware???
Depends on the definition of 'really'. Yes, they 'really' did... but, 'really' NOT VERY MUCH!
It is interesting to consider the store types which sold Lionel trains during the holidays. I spent part of my childhood in Union City NJ and my dad was a policeman. There was a gun shop on 32nd street in Union City ( Tobler's Gun Store) which sold sporting rifles and supplied the local police departments with sidearms. My Lionel Christmas presents all came from Toblers- they displayed trains only from just after Thanksgiving to the day after New Years. That store is long gone. turtle7
@Apples55 posted:Willard;
I have the same Angela Trotta Thomas print (actually I have a second one still in the mailing tube somewhere). When I bought them, I called to place my order and Angela answered the phone. I told her that the only quibble I had with her interpretation was that the view of the shelves you can see through the door never looked that neat
Thanks Paul. I have several unopened tubes of her prints here too. Time and too many windows have prevented framing of these, Thank you for sharing this memory. Best stuff. Be well. TGIF.
My two hardware stores thst I used to shop at were:
Madison Hardware on 23rd st. And thanks to OGR in the 1990's, Walkers Hardware in Totowa, NJ. Both are gone now!
Toy trains were and, for the most part, still are something men have a keen interest in owning. During the 20th Century hardware stores were like barber shops places men would willing patronize.
One could also ask why service stations?
@RixTrack posted:One could also ask why service stations?
If you're referring to the "service station" in "service station special," I think that was Lionel service stations that repaired toy trains, not auto service stations, that sold the Service Station Special sets.
If my memory is correct, R&S auto store in Union,NJ had Lionel trains and I used to see them there. This go back to my pre-teen days, at least 50 years ago. Might have bought trains there. I used to buy trains from Two Guys Department store in Union who had a good-sized selection.
Tom’s Trains and Hardware store in Ardsley, New York sells Lionel trains downstairs in his store with the hardware business upstairs. I know Tom Vitkowski from the Greenberg Shows and still operates the store there. Never been to his store, so not sure what other manufacturers and/or gauges he has there.
The local ( Ashland , Ky and Ironton , Oh ) service station / sales center back in the 1950's and 1960's was located at May's Doughnut Shop in Ashland ,Ky .
Dale Smith of Ironton , Ohio purchased the service station and tools from May's Doughnut Shop sometime in the early 1970's , and run the business from his Ironton home for years .
Dale Smith use to be one of the folks in charge at the Collis P Huntington Historical Society in Huntington , WV that was in charge of the famed " New River Gorge Train ".
May's Doughnut Shop is where my late fathers first electric train set was purchased headed by the Lionel 6220 Santa Fe switcher which I proudly display in my house .
One of the other service stations was located about 35 miles east in Barboursville, WV (city located beside Huntington , WV ) , located in a hardware store .
It was still in operation until the proceeding owner ( Main Street Hardware ) , sold it to a late friend of mine Richard Ransbottom about 15-16 years ago in Wurtland , Ky ( Whistle Post Trains & Rail-Car Restorations ) .
Sadly I don't believe anyone continued with any of the two service stations I've mentioned here .
@Ted Bertiger posted:If my memory is correct, R&S auto store in Union,NJ had Lionel trains and I used to see them there. This go back to my pre-teen days, at least 50 years ago. Might have bought trains there. I used to buy trains from Two Guys Department store in Union who had a good-sized selection.
Tom’s Trains and Hardware store in Ardsley, New York sells Lionel trains downstairs in his store with the hardware business upstairs. I know Tom Vitkowski from the Greenberg Shows and still operates the store there. Never been to his store, so not sure what other manufacturers and/or gauges he has there.
R&S must've had several locations. The one I went to was in the Somerset Shopping Center at the infamous Somerville Traffic Circle (that's a whole other story). I remember one day as a kid spotting an N-scale Amtrak train set at R&S. We had just gotten a big snowstorm, and I asked my mother if I could shovel driveways in our neighborhood to earn money to buy that train. She wouldn't let me, and said that I would be "taking advantage of people." To this day, I don't understand that.
@Jim Brenner posted:This is more of a comment than a question.
While reading several of the current and past posts about where people purchased their trains, it struck me that many folks (including me) bought their trains at a hardware store. I can understand department stores and hobby shops selling trains, but not hardware stores.
Jim,
I suspect the demographics of the customer base was a significant reason, particularly during the Postwar Era. I can remember making countless trips to multiple hardware stores with my father while growing up, but don't recall any trips with my mother. As a result, any model train displays would be visible to someone who might decide to make a purchase -- usually for their sons (and often also in part for the Dad!).
Additionally, some of the items purchased for the layout and small, custom built wooden "shelf", were purchased at the hardware store, including paint for the table and shelf, fasteners, etc. We had a local hardware store, Bidigare Hardware, that carried numerous Lionel items of all descriptions during the Christmas Season. And, the store often had spectacular sales after Christmas!
Generating customer traffic is the name of the game in retail, and having model trains often generated the correct traffic for the hardware store. Having the children trying to coax Dad to go to the hardware store also helped with sales. My Dad, as a matter of convenience, would generally pick up a few other items while we were at the hardware store. And, these were often items that he would have bought elsewhere.
Not directly pertinent, but I used to travel frequently to Ithaca, NY where there was a place called "Gone Loco." It was a golf pro shop that also sold Lionel and MTH. Kept the doors open during the winter months!
Anybody know if it is still there? It was up on Water Wagon Road.
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