Will's aerial RR layout

I expect about 117" between the outer edges of the 2 tunnels (approximate locations shown by the black books in the pic).  If the opening are about 14.5" each (framing out the whole bay width), then there will be about 88" of wall between the 2 openings.  Please nobody attempt the SCARM diagram yet because I won't have firm dimensions until the 2 bays are tunneled.  Everything is approximate until then.

If it were mine Will, I'd make the tunnel opening height 7" above the track. You state you want to run ANY train and while I don't have any scale double-stack cars anymore, I remember those being around 6.5" tall. Also GG-1 pantographs in the "up' position may exceed your 6" plan.

Nice idea Will. I like it. A few comments:
Don't use common 1x6 pine. It will warp and move constantly as it ages. If you can get cabinet grade 3/4" plywood you can rip it down to 6" strips. Some high quality 5/8" on the market that will reduce the weight a little too. Curves can be cut out of larger sheets too.

The portals should be wide enough assuming your framing is 16" on center (14 1/2" inside). Those 18" cars do have a wide swing on curves so test them out before finishing the openings. Large steamers need even more room for clearance.

I would go higher that 6" for the portals. Measure from the top of rail, not the base too.

Bob

Nice plan, Will, very ambitious! Should be a lot of fun to watch!

Any background scenery?

Thanks D&H1965, Bob, & Sean!  I'm welcoming all advice and already agree the tunnel inside height will be a little higher, probably 7.25" which will give me about 6.75" above top of rail (my tape says Gargraves flex track is 15/32" tall).

Also, to my slight surprise, the wires from the outlet do not run down the same bay but rather down the bay next to it, so my plans already change as the tunnel moves left 1 bay, making my bedroom floor run a little longer and eliminating the corner space where I had been planning an O-scale hi-rise building.  That building was gonna be a composite, with a base of a short corner cabinet (21" high, enclosing the outlet) topped with a metal-and-stained-glass skyscraper tower running another 36" higher.  Oh well, the skyscraper may end up in the kitchen (and even better, as a single structure --and maybe now it can be even taller!).  Also, at least now my CD shelves (to be built above the bedroom floor track) will run fully wall-to-wall instead of ending one bay before the left corner of the room.  Multiplied by 8 shelves up, that yields another 12 linear feet of CD shelves, which I will use....

See how, after first ripping out the baseboard, I used a 1.5" hole saw to open exploratory holes to see which bay has wires.  The sheetrock knife will soon make the opening rectangular, once I build the frame to be inserted into the bay.  Not pictured is the preliminary step I took of running a razor behind the baseboard before I ripped it out, so it was already separated from the paper-like skin of the sheetrock and thus avoiding ripping up the surface of the wall above the baseboard.

After drilling 1.5" exploratory holes into 5 bays of my wall, I found 2 that don't have wires preventing a tunnel.  So used my wallboard saw to cut out tunnel ports 8"H across the full 14"W between the wall studs.  Then I used a long pilot bit on my drill to mark the 4 corners of the ports, so I can see their locations on the kitchen side of the wall.  Then I remeasured everything, resulting in this revised layout sketch:

Here is the view from in the bedroom, where the track will run on the floor along the wall.  Unfortunately the inescapable geometry seems to require that track be about 13" out from the wall by the time it has fully curved in through the tunnels, but hey, it's MY room....  Here's a pic of those tunnel ports along the floor:

I marked out the 4 corners of each tunnel port with a long drill bit, so I can see their locations from the kitchen side of the wall:

Notice in the revised sketch that there is now a lot more room at the bottom of the drawing because the tunnel port that sets the the location of that track has been moved "up" the drawing (to the left, from BR perspective) 2 bays.  Perhaps later when I start building the kitchen side of this layout I will consider adding another pair of switches to add another branch of track in that space.

I see this would have been a lot easier in HO or N gauge, but considering the somewhat distanced vantage I think viewers will appreciate the large O-gauge size.  But a 12' long train is really gonna fill these spaces, never even having a single straightaway long enough to see the whole train straight!

Also I'm a little worried about the heat from the kitchen stovepipe.  I heat my house 100% with wood I cut and split myself, all burned in this little stove in the kitchen:

Those are some of my beer cans, I guess some will have to move.  This train is a special feature of a larger project I'm doing, building shelves to organize and display my collections of books, CDs and beer cans.  So maybe once I get this all built and have my New Haven line passenger train running, my next train might be some kind of beer or boozey freight train.

Actually, from the kitchen only the left side of the train will be viewed, and from the BR only the right side (when train runs counterclockwise).  It might be fun to paint cars with different characters on each side, so it would be like a different train depending on which room was viewpoint.  But right now I have more immediate tasks at hand.

Cant see the pix Will.

No pictures.

Why do you have mice?

Thanks Bob, I deleted them "as attachments" because they seemed to already be embedded in the post.  I still saw them in the text of the post, but apparently others can't?  So I edited the post to re-attach the pics!

Hi Don, I don't know why God gives me mice, but I have an idea for a trap better-than-ever:  a circus cage car that lures the mouse in with bait, slams the cage shut and moves the train outside, releasing the rodent before returning back inside to trap again.  Maybe even a special car, like a crewman's hand car except it is run by the trapped mouse on a running wheel?  Would there be a market for this or am I the only one?

LOL!   You're the only one.

John

Yesterday's work means Construction Day 1 of this project resulted in:

1)  Opening the 2 tunnel ports from the upstairs bedroom side of wall (each w/ 4 corners drill-marked for imminent opening of kitchen cathedral side).

2) Revised measurements and layout concepts (tunnel ports are not where I expected, due to wires in wall).

Today's agenda will be to 1) finish opening the tunnel ports from the kitchen side of wall, and 2) lay track platform of 3/4" pine boards on upstairs BR floor and as a shelf along tunneled wall of kitchen cathedral.  These boards will be part of an ongoing build-in of shelving throughout the house, and will blend accordingly.  However, regarding the aerial portion of the layout (the vast majority of it, which is most of the layout), I'm considering Bob's advice to use cabinet-grade plywood instead.  This to avoid warping as the boards age.

To the extent that I cannot find a way to keep my pine boards flat enough (looking into the future right now!), then I accept the advice as worth the effort of finding a better (straighter) way to cut plywood with my circular saw on a pencil line.  So here's my plan on how to keep the pine boards "flat enough," and I hope some experienced modelers will help me see into the future of these boards.

I have aluminum rails designed for rooftop racking of solar PV panels.  Along the top of the rail runs a slot into which I can drop T-bolts.  I'll drill holes through centerline of my 1 x 6 (0.75" x 5.5" actual dim) pine boards every 12 inches and torque some thin nuts into the soft wood, securing the boards firmly to the rails that will be plenty strong for the 10' - 11' aerial track spans they will support.  Additionally, any joints between these boards will be set with dowels and glue, to keep them aligned.  On this platform I will lay some kind of rubber or cork pad under the Gargraves 3-rail SS flex track I have.  DOES THAT SEEM LIKE A GOOD PLAN?

But first, before business hours slip away, I'm off to Harbor Freight for a dowel jig so I can join 3/4" pine boards into longer shelves.  Not just as RR track platforms, but also for CD and bookshelves in my larger project (of which this train is a very special feature!).

https://www.harborfreight.com/...eling-jig-41345.html

The dowel jig from Harbor Freight turned out to be worthless.  It does NOT "self-center" because it has too much play in the parts and applies uneven pressure as the clamp squeezes the board.  When tight it is visibly misaligned!  Also, even if it did center up-and-down in the thickness of the wood, the jig has no guide lines to show center of hole left-to-right!  Aligning 2 boards requires exact center lines!  Whoever engineered that tool in China obviously never uses a jig himself!  Later today I will return it for a refund.  The store is 25 minutes away each direction, so 2 hours wasted without progress.

Except that it all makes me decide to skip the doweling of shelf joints and instead seek out sheet metal plates I can screw across joints as shelf splices.  Another possibility (considerably more expensive and heavier) would be to just double-up the boards so my track shelves are 1.5" thick instead of .75".  By that method, I would stagger the joints so they are not in the same place at bottom and top layers of shelf.  The straight edges and pre-primed condition of the boards make me like that solution despite cost.  After all, I think my aluminum rails will handle the extra weight.

Will- take a look at Kreg tools. They make several different lines of tools for woodworking. I'm hooked on their pocket screws. Lowes carries a good assortment of their stuff.

https://www.kregtool.com/shop/...BwE&gclsrc=aw.ds

Thanks Bob, I have never used a jig but back in 7th grade made some dowel joints with pencil center lines and a drill press.  Not bad work for a 12 year old!  Nothing serious since in terms of wood joints, so mentally that's my starting point going into this project.

I just researched your pocket hole reference and Kreg jigs and find it to be a possible solution to joining segments into longer track shelves.  It would certainly be cheaper than doubling the shelf thicknesses to stagger the splices between the 2 layers!  Seems more reliable (and less obtrusive) than sheet metal splices.  My brother gave me a Lowe's gift card for Christmas so it might be fun to go browse their woodworking department soon.

Regarding the impending choice about aerial track shelves (3/4" pine boards or cabinet-grade plywood?), I want to use 1 x 6 (0.75" x 5.5" real dim) pine boards because they are easy, have factory-straight edges and a smooth white pre-primed finish, ready for paint (this will be above my kitchen table, after all).  For me, cutting plywood to get long straight shelf edges with a circular saw, yielding edges of multiple plies, seems like a lot more work to get into comparable paint-ready condition, and unlikely to look as straight and neat at my skill level.  But of course, I do not want warping such as thin pine typically will, so I'm now hoping my centerline bolting of the boards down into the top slot of the supporting aluminum rail will keep the shelves straight enough at track width along the center.  I could space those t-bolts as close together as I think I need to keep the wood from warping).  Pocket hole screws could splice the ends together in a way they cannot twist apart as the wood seasons.

So unless something changes my mind before I start building the aerial shelves, the pre-primed white pine boards with 12"-spaced centerline t-bolts and pocket-hole splice joints is my plan.

The aluminum channel is a good idea and should help stabilize the pine. The primed boards are also more stable since the primer seals the wood.

@Will Wilkin posted:

Hi Don, I don't know why God gives me mice, but I have an idea for a trap better-than-ever:  a circus cage car that lures the mouse in with bait, slams the cage shut and moves the train outside, releasing the rodent before returning back inside to trap again.  Maybe even a special car, like a crewman's hand car except it is run by the trapped mouse on a running wheel?  Would there be a market for this or am I the only one?

Your the only one. You let them go, they will be back. You need to find how they get in the house and plug it.

I have a bucket with a ramp and a baited top. Mouse steps on it and falls in the bucket and drowns.

This is for my spare garage that I have sealed. They still get in and go into my corvette cabin filter.

Don I know you're right, but I have a right to be wrong, and I'm standing on it.

Construction update, New Year's Day 1pm:

I started the day by cutting 90 degree brackets to complete the assembly of my tunnel port headers --again, to prevent any mice in the wall from entering human living space through the RR tunnel. 

They screwed in very strong, I pushed them up a little high in case I decide to make the tunnel higher than I am planning now.

Next step will be to use a 1.5" hole saw to open the 4 corners of the kitchen wall, big enough to put my saw blade in to cut the full tunnel port rectangle into the kitchen wall, fully opening the wall between the 2 rooms.

Well it turns out that if you have already used that hole saw to penetrate a hundred roofs, then when you finally bring it into your own house to do a little fine work...well, ....the house just gets smoky and no hole gets cut.  Since I had covid 2 months ago, I still can't smell much.

But the burning pine from my dull hole saw smelled great even 15 minutes later when I re-entered the house with Plan B: a 1/2" drill bit.

Once I had 1/2" holes at each corner of my tunnel ports, I swapped into a wood blade on my reciprocating saw

and forced the break-through moment that changes my house forever!

Well, I've cut metal, sheet rock and wood, or at least hacked through the materials, depending on sharpness of the blade.  But even with a brand new razor, I can't figure out how to cut wet cardboard!

As an inexperienced RR modeler without a Windows computer (ie, no SCARM here), I'm designing as if I were still a kid in the 1970s, except now with nobody to tell me "no!"  Even my earlier graph paper designs have been abandoned, replaced with vivid daydreams of track when sitting at the kitchen table, and now some curve templates of floppy still-wet cardboard.  Hopefully the Gargraves flex track will bring the hardware into harmony with my intuitive design process with no math outside my head.

Looking from my bed through one of the tunnel ports into the wide open kitchen, I'm already designing a privacy and noise-reduction tunnel sleeve that will be an enclosed straightaway through the bay, jutting out straight a few inches on each side of the wall.   The necessary curves will thus be slightly interrupted (ie, enlarged, costing me a few inches of BR floor space as the track curves deeper into the room).  The cardboard geometry is telling me to build a toe-guard ("retaining wall"?) at least 16" out from the wall.  I had been hoping for 8 or 10" intrusion into the room, but will not be intimidated by SET BACKS (literally, haha!), because nothing is more important than this RR when it comes to home improvements.

And here's what it looks like from the kitchen right now.

Yes, looking through the left port, those are more happy lights you see upstairs.  Most rooms have them, they're a little like trains if you look at them right.

Off to Home Depot (Open New Years Day!!) to get 2 4' x 8' sheets of cabinet-grade plywood 23.32" thick.  By my graph paper calculations, each sheet will yield me 3 cuts that have some straight attached to a 90 degree curve at O-63 gauge (center rail radius will be about 31.5").  I will draw the curves with pencil and string, putting nail at radius point and drawing the inner and outer diameter curve lines at 28.75 and 34.25" for a 5.5" wide track platform that butts up (almost, remember that missing 32nd of an inch of plywood?) perfectly with the 5.5" wide straight-away track shelves of factory-primed pine boards 14/32" thick (ie, 3/4").  The straights projecting from each of the 3 curves (per board) will vary in length, something I'll deal with later as a new starting point once these are all cut and laid out.

Joining these plywood curves to the pre-primed pine boards presents the nightmare of joining unlike materials, but for every stupid thing there's a good stupid reason.

The plywood is pretty nice, 3/4" thick 4 x 8 sheets are $65 each.  It's called "Sandply" at Home Depot and it does have a smooth finish on both sides, already rough sanded!  Much flatter than all the other ordinary plywoods.  I bought 2 sheets and was able to draw 3 curves of 90 degrees each into a 48 x 48 half, so each sheet will yield 6 curves.  My compass: a screw at the radial point just 1/4" in from corner, string runs from screw out to pencil at various radii.

After I cut these 3 out with a jig saw I can trace them out again 3 more times to give me 4 pieces each of 90 degree curve boards at O-60 (28" ID & 33.5" OD), O-72 (33.5" ID & 39" OD) and O-90 (42.5" ID & 48" OD).  These curve track shelves will be cut at 5.5" wide, to butt up evenly with my 1 x 6 straight boards.  Center rail runs along the center line of these boards.

Besides a few little branch connectors, I basically need 2 circles worth of curves, or 8 x 90 degrees.  Everything else will be custom-length straights to make it all fit.  Hopefully I'll be able to build the whole layout with only O-72 or wider but I will have the 4 pieces of O-60 if space gets tight.

I'm sketching out concepts but actual exact dimensions will come from how the wood blocks fit together in the spaces I have.  Goal is approximately one wide circle (O-72?) expanded with a few straight pieces, inside a bigger circle that tunnels through a wall and might run 2 tighter curves (O-60).  4 switches (O-72) will allow 2 connections between inner and outer circles.

I think I have a mental picture of what your plan is, but I may be off. It seems this will be similar to electrical conduit trays that are suspended by threaded rods with a bracket between them and holding up the pine(?). If so, are the brackets wide enough to hold the ends of two boards butted together?

I've spent a few thousand dollars with Critter Control when red squirrels found a way into my attic. That and the red-tailed hawks and bard owls have eliminated that problem but mice are a whole, different ball game trying to keep them out in the winter. I keep a couple of those fly trap trays with a little peanut butter in the center. By the time we hear one he's gets quiet pretty quick and I get to sleep. We take 5 or 6 out over the winter.

Hello Dan, yes the track "shelves" will mostly not be up against walls but rather in "open air" like wire tray, except these shelves are supported from below by aluminum rails.  Wood shelves 3/4" thick x 5.5" wide, T-bolted (along the center-line of straightaways) into the top-slot of those aluminum rails that span wall-to-wall without any vertical support.

When using my table saw is impractical for ripping lengths of plywood or other stock and I still want clean straight cuts using my 7 1/4" hand held circular saw, I use this Bora 100 inch WTX Bar Clamp

They have a built-in clamping mechanism that securely grips the edges of the material and are adjustable to any length of material up to just over 96"

WILL

QUICK QUESTION you're single right?

Anyway, when making tracks between walls I added a slider to close off the hole between rooms to keep the room closed if I wanted.

@AlanRail posted:

WILL

QUICK QUESTION you're single right?

Holy COW Alan, you have amazing psychic powers!  There is no possible way you could have figured that out from the information I've shared.

But, now that you've mentioned it, from somewhere behind my mind, in the mists of hope and worry, comes the impulse to build this train NOW before I meet her, just in case she ever tried to slow it down later....

Thanks, Steve, for bringing to my attention the straight edge guide for circular saws.  I've never used one and wonder if maybe I will soon?  For now, my straightaways are factory-primed 1 x 6 pine boards.  They're straight, they're already smooth and paint-ready, and they are the same material from which I'm building CD shelves into the rest of the upstairs train wall.  The curves I'm cutting from plywood with a jigsaw.  Even after cutting 6 curves per sheet, there's quite a bit of sheet left for any custom pieces I need to connect the 2 circles via switches.

Will

SHE eventually will, do it now!

Also, I have always thought that the key to aerial layouts, I worked on one in a Chicago restaurant named for Sinatra's best friend, that key Is Bridges, open frame Bridges. Seeing the train running from underneath.

Alan, regarding those open-view frame bridges, I have wondered if maybe I could afford to get 3 or 4 of them custom fabricated at a local metal shop.  A simple design they could weld that is a classic truss bridge instantly recognizable to the eye.  Each span would be about 4 to 15 feet, depending on how I guard the curves in these 2 aerial circles....  And what about switches?  That's why, at least for now, wood shelves are a lot easier, especially because I intend to build the track like blocks, letting the pieces tell me what the final dimensions are when it's all built.

Will

I can laser cut some for you; I was a structural engineer!! So count on each bridge to be structurally accurate.

I would need dimensions of the base (length, curve and width) with side clearances and support locations.

they will come FLAT for you to assemble.

I have posted pictures of some on the Forum.

Alan, you've got me thinking....

Maybe I can design one long straight bridge in somewhere special, as a visual feature enhanced by electro-mechanical thrills of bottom view of the 3 rail trains, with unimpeded arc-flash sound!  Meanwhile I'll keep fitting together my wood shelves like giant track pieces, leaving the longest straightaway for consideration of a steel truss bridge.

I intend all these aerial track spans to have zero vertical supports, but rather be supported by aluminum rails spanning wall-to-wall underneath the tracks.  Rails such as these IronRidge XR100, with the top slot for T-bolt anchoring of track shelf down straightaway center-lines.  The side slots on the rail are for bolt heads to go through L-brackets, so perpendicular rails can be supported once I've got 2 spanning wall-to-wall.

Somehow on such a structural system of aerial rectangle I want a loop-with-tunnel that has 2 switch connections to a smaller loop inside the big loop.

Bridges could help.  Can they be strong enough to have no supports between the 2 ends?  Maybe even integrate those IronRidge XR100 rails into the bridge as the span structural support, to integrate visually with the rest of the layout on wood shelves but supported by the same rail?

Will

I have made a number of long bridges in MDF and acrylic (nice no painting needed.)

These TRUSS bridges like PRATT, K Truss, Howe x-Truss  and Warren over-designed so strong enough to support the heaviest engines.

Today's job got called off due to an ice storm, so I worked on my RR track.  I raised the height of the headers inside the tunnel ports, and cut the wall openings larger to fit, such that tunnel height will always be at least 6.625" above rails.  Then I screwed a layout base layer of pine boards into the floor, and the wall baseboards supporting the first shelf above the track.  I also framed an 8' W section of the CD rack, by setting the left & right vertical support boards for the 7 additional shelves to rise above this first one.  The shelves will be 5.5" deep (1 x 6 pre-primed pine boards), spaced up with 5.5" of height between them.  Perfect for a few of my thousands of CDs!

Also today I called a contractor who has done fine work for me before.  Next week he'll come look at feasibility of a certain whimsical design idea I have for this project.  More on that later, hopefully....

Next comes priming and some paint of the boards seen in this pic.  Then I will get serious about fitting together my wood track platforms cut as curves and straights, 7.25" W x 3/4" thick.  My intention is to build the entire outer loop as a wooden track platform before installing any track.  After that comes the inner loop, and the connector/switching system between the 2 loops.