Will ???? the Lionel NKP-NS Heritage Unit be CORRECT!

Doesn't Lionel know what the loco will look like since they approved the tooling and paint masks.

Lionel knows what the tooling and paint masks are but whether China actually builds it that way is another issue.   I know this is old territory but if the manufacturing was still here in the U.S. it would be much easier to correct a problem before an item actually went in to production.

Neal 

I guarantee it will be a "toy train", as is all Lionel Trains.  

These engines will be made from brand new tooling, as stated in the catalog. They're being made to look like the actual NS heritage engines, with the new door replacement, and the notch in the front of the cab where the headlight was designed to go on the CSX models which NS piggybacked their order on to. It does look like they used their original ES44's for the catalog picks. Hopefully they'll be perfect when they come.

Bill

The SD70ACe's are pretty much correct but for one thing, the prototype has ditch lights on both the front and back, the rear ditch lights are not there On the Lionel model. 

So I doubt you will see them on the ES44's, the prototypes do have them. 

How many railroads had this specific Evolution Series Locomotive?

Andrew

The problem is not with the tooling. But with the Painting!

What is incorrect in the catalog?

Depends on your personal definition of correct.  Under my definition no.

I love my MTH NKP ES44 and enjoy it! Yes I know about the door...but I'm okay with that... 

Now I have some time.  I am actually surprised that no one has noticed.  If you will recall this unit was shopped out of Juniata March 29,2012.  And not long after slightly corrected.

The catalog depicts as shopped out March 29.2012.  BUT does NOT depict as it is now or as it was for the "event" here at the NC Transportation Museum, or as it pushed 765 over the Curve with Rich Melvin at the throttles.

The point here is I was specific with Lionel in my contact.  BUT Lionel by their reply apparently does NOT know one way or the other.  So will it be as originally painted or as corrected, displayed here and run? Looking like the engine is my personal definition of correct

Oh if I recall MTH did get the paint right.  Will stop by semi-local toy train shop Saturday to verify.

YES the MTH NKP-NS is correct, confirmed today (Saturday) at toy train shop.

or as it pushed 765 over the Curve with Rich Melvin at the throttles.

Why do you say "pushed 765 over the curve"?  The diesel "helped" a very little bit,,,,,but "pushed",,,,,no way!

Here is the Nickel Plate Road ES44AC with several different cab number modifications.

Regards,

Swafford

What are the paint differences? 

What at makes you think it will not be correct?  The only way we will know is when it is delivered. 

I have one on order and after seeing what MTH did to the SD70AC's I think that Lionel's may be the best bet for the ES44AC. 

Good Day,

The paint difference is where the "NS" is located by the cab number "8100". To me this is very minor. I will be anxious to view the Lionel NS Heritage ES44AC's.

On a side note, I'm glad that Lionel is presenting two power engines in each NS Heritage color scheme.

Regards,

Swafford  

The NUMBER font style is also different.  NS saw it as significant enough to require the change.  It relates to NKP protocols apparently based on what I recall reading.

here's a decent side view of it @ Spencer that I shot - 

Spencer, NC - 7/3/12 by Christopher & Amy Cate / Eastern Rails Photography, on Flickr

Spencer, NC - 7/4/12 by Christopher & Amy Cate / Eastern Rails Photography, on Flickr

David let me turn this around a moment.  What on God's green Earth makes you think they will get it CORRECT???????

The catalog depicts it NOT correct.

They have screwed up paint many of times.  For product that I have been interested in two come to mind.  The X31 Pennsy round top box cars.  They could NOT did NOT get the color even close.  And what makes this blunder more absurd that in their own new product release bulletin dated 3/10/2011 they (Lionel) have a large color picture of a Pennsy X31 car end.  And the picture is definitely NOT chocolate brown.  And then there is the NS Genset with the reversed NS horse Logo.  This is a $700/800.00 product that they did NOT get correct.  Nor did they fix it as some of the faithful thought even pronounced they would.

Then you add the reply I received to the very specific question.   I paste the reply here again.

"Ron,

The items depicted in the catalog are often prototype or mockup pictures and can be "subject to changes in price, design, color, size, and availability." Until we have viewed a sample of this product, we do not have more information at this time.

Thank you,


Lionel"

Does that sound like they have a handle on it?  I sure get NO warm fuzzes from this reply.  Like Nancy said we will have to wait and see IF we get lucky. If correct I WILL buy.

OH and the MTH unit paint is CORRECT by empirical observation.

Speaking of MTH for counter-context.  A few years ago MTH cataloged a diesel engine that I had been looking for on my must have list.  The catalog depiction was NOT correct.  The paint color used was NOT correct.  I emailed one of the VPs with my observations. Within 24-hours I received a reply to this affect.

Thanking me for my interest.  Then stating they researched my observation and concluded I was correct.  They then stated that the production info has been corrected.  That the production will be in fact correct.  And they put out a catalog description up date.

You know that the correct paint is the easiest thing for the toy train makers to get correct!

...as it pushed 765 over the Curve with Rich Melvin at the throttles.

Smiley face or no, that's an insult. 

FOR THE RECORD, the NKP Heritage unit was IDLING as we rounded the curve on August 20, 2012. The 765 maintained a speed of 10.9 mph (GPS-derived) on the 1.7% grade with that heavy diesel (around 420,000 pounds - equal to 3+ passenger cars) and 18 more cars behind her on that climb.

For proof, watch the video. The only noise you will hear from the diesel when it goes by the camera is the sound of a big GE idling...

Good Day Rich,

Thank you for sharing the video. The video was spectacular!

Best regards,

Frank

thanks Rich, had not seen that one.

Rich Melvin you are too too easy!  Elevated energy H-2-O asked why I did that in an earlier post.  Will the answer is I wondered how long it would take to get a rise out of Rich.

I read and reread your account in the Run260 sure wishing that I could have been in that cab.  And yes I realized that 765 was having to pull over 200.0 tons of extra dead rolling weight.

That was some LASH-UP!

Ahhh, so that was/is your idea of fun? To deliberately make inflammatory posts, just to call out certain individuals?

Just great!

Real fun is asking folks on the forum what they think Lionel is going to do.......when Lionel doesn't even know

Yeah...a steam/diesel lashup, no less!

You know, this is the first time I'd noticed Lionel's statement of "Newly tooled plastic body" in the catalog. Makes sense, to include the reversed door on the nose, headlight "notch", and headlights on the cab. I do hope that Lionel takes this update a step further and also changes the grilles on the rear of the engine, on each side, below the radiator. Currently, they appear as they looked on earlier Evolution units. I believe all Evolutions built in 2009 (?) and later have the newer grilles, placed side-by-side, and slightly bulging out from the engine hood. MTH hasn't made any big changes to their tooling (their NS heritage engines have the older, inaccurate grills) so this would be a way for Lionel to get a little edge on MTH.

Examples: BNSF 7701, original grilles:

http://www.rrpicturearchives.n...cture.aspx?id=358867

BNSF 7900, newer grilles:
http://www.rrpicturearchives.n...ture.aspx?id=2237254

So I am confused.  Doesn't this sort of thing belong in the 3-rail scale section?  I always thought traditional meant caricatures of trains, not scale models.

i am blown away with the fidelity of some of the scenes in this week's 3-rail scale photo section.  I cannot handle the track, but my models do not come close to some of the ones Hot has displayed, and my layout has no scenery at all.

So the NS Heritage ESs will have a plastic body while the NS Heritage SD70ACes are diecast?

As long as the piolts swing and the couplers are lobster claws, it's approriate for the "Traditional" forum.

Rusty

Yes the NS Heritage ES44's will be plastic. The first few offerings of the ES44 from Lionel were die-cast (BNSF, UP, KCS, Demonstrator, CP, and UP Boy Scout). The SD70ACe has never been done in die-cast.

Bill